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ilovemygears - Memberorange's are cheap shit made expensively in England
Yep.
Not bike related but my Wickes hedge trimmer burned out at the weekend. I had the receipt and it was 14 months old. I called WIckes as I couldn't find anything about how long the warranty was. They said it's 12 months but as a gesture of good will they'd replace it anyway. I didn't even have to ask. I will now buy from Wickes again. A bit of good will goes a long way and is all too rare these days.
But under the SOGA you're entitled to a reasonable life / use out of the item, so 12 months hardly seems sufficient so legally they should have replaced it.
Not that you didn't get good service etc but they had an obligation, it wasn't a favour / act of goodwill / generosity (despite how it might have been phrased at the time).
E.g.
Durability
Durability is another recent addition to the definition of quality. How long should a dishwasher or a vacuum cleaner or a printer last? This is a very common source of complaint and one which manufacturers were always quick to turn back on the consumer, requiring them to provide proof that the item did not conform to contract specification from the start, or implying an element of misuse or neglect. Thanks to the new European Regulations, UK law now offers greater protection for consumers against products which develop faults within the first 6 months. The assumption is now that if it breaks down within this time period it cannot have conformed to the contract specification when purchased and you have the right to an automatic repair or replacement. Having said this, items which should last several years can still break down after this six month period. If the retailer or manufacturer’s warranty has run out, the shop is often quick to say there is nothing they can do before attempting to sell you an extended warranty. This is misleading. [b]If you buy something which should last 7 years but breaks down after a year and a day, you can still claim it was of poor quality in reference to the durability aspect. [/b] In this respect it will help to know how long items such as washing machines or printers should last. You can get this information relevant trade association
From here: [url] http://whatconsumer.co.uk/how-long-should-it-last/ [/url]
If Orange have a re-occuring problem with the 5 cracking in the same place as reported here on a 2005 & 2008 model, then why should it not be subject to the same laws / regulations which car manufacturers work to - ie a warranty recall on the frames effected by the design / manufacturing flaw identified by the frame number. My Audi dealer recently replaced parts worth £100s on my 10 year old car due to a known problem free of charge, so why shouldnt a bike manufacturer do the same if they know the main triangle is cracking & failing which could cause you to loose control & crash?
Superdale - there is no 'known' problem with Orange Fives cracking in the same place and quoting 2 failures 3 years apart is nonsense!
I you knew the stats on Orange failures then the Five has the one of the lowest failure rates if any frame in the business (any manufacture). All bike companies have frames returned under warranty - that doesn't mean that there is always a flaw in the design. Some riders are heavy on components or just heavy others can't ride for tosh. The fact is hardly any Fives break as a percentage of the number they build.
If (and I've no reason to doubt him as a) I don't know him and b) why bother lying) the OP is telling the truth about the promised rectification of the issue by Orange Customer Services, then the resultant repair without any notification of their new intentions is truly shocking.
Imagine for example your power steering on your car was playing up and the rack was leaking fluid, the main dealer said they'd replace the rack, but a few months later you notice the same problem. Take it back toe the same main dealer and it turns out the previous situation had been "rectified" by sealing the crack in some way, despite the fact they'd told you that the rack had been replaced and was now fine. You'd be well within your rights to go ape$h!t and get onto to trading standards right away.
Some riders are heavy on components or just heavy others can't ride for tosh.
Maybe they should only sell their bikes to lightweight trail gods with excellent maintenance routines then.
Which incidetally counts me out on all criteria.
lol @ superdale.
Nothing like a good bit of FUD spread about!
I you knew the stats on Orange failures then the Five has the one of the lowest failure rates if any frame in the business (any manufacture).
Huh? Based on what? They make a tiny number of frames, and there seems to be a reasonable number breaking, I'd certainly dispute that!
All bike companies have frames returned under warranty - that doesn't mean that there is always a flaw in the design. Some riders are heavy on components or just heavy others can't ride for tosh.
And some products are just poorly made/not up to the job, either a one off defect as is usually the case, or a wider issue. Broken parts isn't always about the rider.
The fact is hardly any Fives break as a percentage of the number they build.
Again, what is this 'fact' based on?
lbs here that sells oranges and has done for 4 years now.....not had one frame failure.if weve ever had any issues theyve always been very good about it and helped us with the customer...i can count on one hand how many problems weve had though and its usually been component issues..
did the op speak to orange about this before making his feelings felt on here?
Cheeky Monkey its the nail on the head: a manufacturer's warranty cannot be used to dilute your rights under the Sale of Goods Act. A frame that fails twice, in the same place, in a relatively short space of time, and with no suggestion of rider abuse, is not fit for its intended purpose. Orange should repair or replace the frame at their own expense.
Get onto the various websites suggested - use their template to make a complaint. Following this, if unsuccessful, you can refer to Trading Standards.
did the op speak to orange about this before making his feelings felt on here?
Dunno, but then again, as you'll know being a shop 😉 the contract's with you, not Orange so in effect, why should he?
Meanwhile in the real world(TM) I understand what you mean. PITA though isn't it?
most places wont give you the old part back so its not claimed on again, an orange break, wow thats good going
A
April this year noticed frame cracked AGAIN in the same place sent it back again BIKE NOW OVER 3 YEARS OLD but i then find out the Fu@@ers "re ferbished the old frame" re welded the crack which came through again
B
gues what bike now out of warranty had to buy a new front triangle from them as the bike is worth the square root of f@@k all without it
What happened between A and B. If it was me before handing over any money I would have kicked up a fuss. If you did kick up a fuss and still got nowhere then that's a bit rubbish. If you didn't then isn't it a bit late to say anything now?
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was there a roll call on the 2008 bikes at all ?
i have an orange five pro but 2009 model... (touches wood here).. (no cracks on my frame but then im not a fat basket )(lol)
i would have thought 2nd time around failure 'Orange' mite have replaced the frame.... hmmmm
Rik - MemberI you knew the stats on Orange failures then the Five has the one of the lowest failure rates if any frame in the business (any manufacture)... The fact is hardly any Fives break as a percentage of the number they build.
That point could have merit if all Five owners pressed their bikes. Excessive cleaning does not constitute a hard life in my book. 😉
95% of the Fives out there will be tootling around a gravel path trail centre.
Hardly stressing the frame are they?
95% of the [s]Fives[/s] Mountain Bikes out there will be tootling around a gravel path trail centre.Hardly stressing the frame are they?
Fixed that for you...
Personally I think this is poor of Orange. If Orange told him they were going to replace the old frame and didn't and it failed again they should replace it free of charge.
Not bike related but I got a 'free' PS3 with a mobile phone contract 2 decembers ago, this January (1 year and 1 month later on a 1 year warranty), it was playing up, wouldn't start first time, you had to turn it off and back on again and it then worked fine. So I phoned Sony support, who very kindly as a good will gesture had a replacement / refurbished system to me the next day. Replacement unit however, as told on the phone had a 3 month warranty with it.
I guess Orange can specify the warranty life of any warrantied parts and in your case they didn't want to know which is bad due to the time scales involved.
I had big problems with my original ST4. Orange sorted it by giving me a new 2010 frame sprayed in the colour I wanted, and when they said they would.
I spoke - at length - to the Warranty guy. He was very reasonable and fair. I tried to be the same. I didn't go through my original bike shop.
OP seems to have a fair argument here. Probably be more effective having it with Orange. I've heard some horror stories as well regarding their warranty, but my experience was pretty much perfect. Would rather the frame had been right first time, but...
Is it not the responsibility of the retailer to ensure the product they are selling / recommending is fit for purpose. IE If a "beefier" bloke strolls in and asked for a sub 10kg bike to complete Megavalanche on, and the retailer sells them just that, should the manufacturer be held accountable ?
Hence the responsibility under the SOGA being the retailers when it all goes wrong.
I know certain components (Stans rims being one) have pretty specific guidelines regards rider weights etc, does orange (or other manufacturers) have similar ?
Interestingly I remember reading an article recently quoting a Lapierre engineer? answering the issues regards some of their frame failures, one of which was the press fit BB cracking and turns out as the milling tool wore down, the diameter decreased, hence when the BB was press fitted stretched the frame inducing cracks.
The other issue was down to an over exuberant worked milling off to much material on a regular basis !!!
So "incidence" do happen, however infrequently.
[i]Well I certainly share your frustration. I live in fear of mu unwarrantied FS frame breaking in some way.[/i]
Christ, you must be a shaking wreck when you watch the news 🙂
my five doesnt go on gravel paths as someone stated : i can assure you of that.... im a mountain/fells guru !!!!(just recently it hammered 47 grueling miles in one go mine is certainly being put to the test of the orange five.... bollaxed one chainring but thats to be expected ...
i do hope more orange five owners reply to this thread and remark on what a strong bike they are.....just wondering if the bike the op has ...is a one in a few hundred that unfortunately hadnt been put in the oven for long enough... 😉
Didn't you check the frame numbers on the old and new frames ?
Anyway, 3 years doesn't sound too bad to me. I got 11 months out of a Lynskey and 7 months out of a Gary Fisher, both from new.
My Patriot's 11 this year, and my 222 is 9. Neither is cracked or knackered in any way - and I don't ride softly..
Guess they made some strong frames then.
unfortunately I just break myself and not the bike 😳
I had a problem with an 2010 St4 and went straight to Orange's
own warranty dept rather than the shop(who were crap!)outcome
was i got a 2011 Five frame and a good deal on a Thomson post and
Hope headset, this was all dealt with in good time scale and great
communication from them throughout so my exprience of them is very
positive! Didn't really want a Five but now i have one its a great
incredibly versatile bike.
my five has been thrashed around and about, gert big lummox pilot on top, 2 years old and still going strong.
Guess OP was unlucky
@Geda - I've had a Cannondale fail, they replaced the frame no questions with 5yr later model. They did ask for all the paperwork though which I thankfully had....
Guess the PR worked on me as I now have 3x Cannondales....
Interesting But I would go back with my Consumer rights
This lasts about 6 years. Then take it from there.
You will have to go back to the place you purchased the bike from