Picked up a Santa Cruz from new a few months back that unfortunately came with Novatec hubs. With little more than 3 months of weekend riding the freehub seized up.
Have had the shop strip and re-grease everything but after the following ride had the same issue again. The problem seemed to go away on the next ride but now the bearings have completely gone to pieces. I've never had so many problems with a wheel before after so little riding time.
I understand I'd be contacting the shop I purchased from to sort any problems out but thought I'd email novatec to just enquire about any warranties. Quite shocked by the reply I received.
Customer service doesn't seem to exist there and based on my experience just want to share and say avoid at all costs!!!
Cheeky gits. Probably a faulty hub.
They should be fine, but one thing to note, many new wheels don't come well greased. I've used Formula hubs on my daily fixed gear, and it's an easy job to replace bearings. My current FS has formula hubs (same as Novatech) and I've recently stripped the freehub off and popped off all the bearing shields to re-grease it - but that's after 2 years use.
They should just replace.
Why not post the entire email text?
A rock has subsequently bust out my rim sadly so looks like I'm going to be forking out for a new wheel anyway but nice to know, thanks.
The full email text is 18 emails back and forth. I asked about their warranty. They said there wasn't any warranty on bearings. I said that's disappointing after only 3 - 4 months of riding and said I'd be avoiding their poor quality products in future (which I believe I'm within my rights to say based on MY experience). The 'senior sales manager' or so his email signature states obviously wasn't happy about a negative comment to his company but handled it completely unprofessionally.
Seems like direct response to some comments, so can we see the email you sent them?
Ah I see why not now.
But feel free to post them I like both sides of a story .
My experiences with Novatec have actually been very good! I also think the bearings in the hub that I've been using for the past three years have been exemplary, although I must admit their freehub bodies are made of cheese and that's even with their anti bite guard. Still, nothing that a good one piece cassette can't overcome.
I guess I'm just a bit miffed after forking out £6k on a bike and the wheel breaks so easily and quickly. Here's further emails from the thread if you wanted to see them for context granted I aired my grievances about their products but was shocked a company of their size would reply in such a way
My response:
They're final reply:
Brand new Santa Cruz - your contract is with the bike shop for 12 months in the UK.
Kick up trouble. A £6k bike. Not had any issues like this on road and MTB for over 30 years where after a few months they deny warranty...
I know the issue lies with the shop as stated in my first original post. I was just highlighting the way I was responded to after only enquiring about their warranty out of curiosity. I was shocked to receive emails back like that.
Novatec far and few between in the UK.
Err. You might want to think about that one. There are many hubs around made by Novatec and simply re-branded,
If I were you I'd be angry at santa cruz putting "value" hubs on a 6 grand bike
... then I'd buy - or rather get the shop to sort - some new bearings (posher ones if you like), packing them with grease and then enjoying my superbike
FWIW I've got/had a few novatec hubs (only on road wheels until very recently though) and not had any problems with them
-Is this warranty?
-Sorry,bearings are not covered under warranty.Your bikeshop may be able to help you though.
-They said no.Your wheels are s@#t and not as good as others costing a lot more.I hate your company
-Okey dokey.
Santa Cruz speccing cheap oem wheels on a 6k bike says a lot.I see this as a failure of the shops customer service tbh.
Novatec far and few between in the UK.
Superstar,Hunt,JRA to name a few.
Yeh I'm surprised a bike costing that much would have a cheap wheel build, not that novatec are terrible, but they are a pretty generic choice.
I'd expect DT/CK/Hope...
A lot of these big manufacturers stick in crap components into expensive bikes. Always seems to be the things they reckon they can get away with, namely bearings. It's why, after previous experience, I shall never buy big brand again, unless it's heavily discounted so that I can upgrade the bearings myself.
I still don't understand why are you emailing novatec when the vendor is the one to take it up with...
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Was it simply that you were spoiling for an email based argument? </span>
On top of that a £6k build and you get novatec hubs? They're alright hubs (IME) but for that sort of money you'd be expecting something a bit posher...
Oh hang on
... Santa Cruz...
Makes sense now.
Novatec hubs on a 6 grand bike... jeez.
Anyawy - Basically you've have some bearings fail, which could have been for a multitude of reasons, and which aren't covered under warranty, and then immediately slag off their hubs saying they're shite.
Imagine walking into a pub, ordering a pint of beer and finding the pint glass has a crack in the bottom. Then proceeding to tell the pub that their service is crap, their beer and food is crap and it's no wonder people don't drink there any more.
They probably realised part way into the email chain that you were a lost hope and they wouldn't be able to please you/fix your issue, hence the last reply from them.
Speaking from vast amounts of customer service experience, being a dick is not the best way to get something fixed. FYI 🙂
On a 1k bike maybe, but a 6k bike, that's just a piss take.
Might be worth contacting santa cruz for the proper spec..
Is it possible the bike shop fitted some cheaper wheels and re sold the better ones?
Might be worth contacting santa cruz for the proper spec..
Or look at the spec online :o/
F: Novatec D641 - 15x110mm
R: Novatec D642 - 12x148mm (XD)
Rim E13 TRS 30mm - 27.5
Spokes: DT Competition
They are the same £80 (retail) rear hub that's specced on the base spec model for £2k less.You don't get Hopes till you spend another £800!!
You'll find them on £1200 hardtails.
Your expectation that they should be DT Swiss,Chris King quality is not totally unfounded given the £5.6k price tag but that's an issue to take up with Santa Cruz.
To be fair if they did come on a £1200 hardtail you'd still be a bit miffed but maybe somewhat more realistic.
Still the responsibility to look after you lies with the bikeshop you bought it from.Them saying 'we've done all we can' is bollox.
Might be worth contacting santa cruz for the proper spec..
Is it possible the bike shop fitted some cheaper wheels and re sold the better ones?
If you look on Jungle's website loads of Santa Cruz bikes are specced with Novatech hubs.
Shame as they often used to come with Hope hubs
The D641/642 seem to be on the higher level bikes with the D711/D462 on the 'cheaper' bikes. Then above £6k you get Hope pro 4's.
When I say 'cheaper' I mean the £4000 build. The same hubs are on my £1850 RRP trail bike. Which is currently available for £1480.
I guess everyone would be happy with being spoken to like that by a company then by the responses here.
I emailed them out of curiosity as the wheel had already been in to the shop 3 times previous to the emails. I wanted to see if it would be something that could be rectified as the shop was being unhelpful (I know its the shop my contract is with but there's no harm in enquiring form the horses mouth so I could go back to my LBS with the facts).
Santa Cruz now ship with DT Swiss but when I purchased it they were using Novatec. Bit disappointing that they switched supplier on their builds after I purchased.
ta11pau1 - your analogy is completely off the mark. My experience with Novatec has been shocking to say the least, only reinforced by their non existent customer service. It's not only the bearings, my freehub has broken too.
Have had the shop strip and re-grease everything but after the following ride had the same issue again
Sounds like you need a new shop. Step 1 should have been to replace the bearings, not fob the customer off by servicing a part that isn’t meant to be serviced.
i quite like Novatecs response tbh, you throw the toys out the prom, they call you an idiot - fair.
Not a pressure washer user by any chance?
I guess everyone would be happy with being spoken to like that by a company then by the responses here
Have you tried insulting the bikeshop?
Bike shop will not want to warranty the bearings, because the distributor will not warranty them for the bike shop.
They’ve spent more money stripping them 3 times than paying for replacements would’ve cost
I'm amazed Novatec have customer service.
I'd consider getting a reply a bonus.
On a £5.6k sale.......you have a bit of margin to play with to cover customer service issues.
You told them you would be staying clear of their products. What further response did you want?
Anyway… you spent your hard earned money at the shop. Get them to sort it. New bearings or hubs if need be… and your claim that the hubs/bearings supplied didn't live up to their billing and intended purpose is reasonable, which from your story it might be.
My oldest running rear hub is a rebranded Novatech… with original bearings. Buy Hope though… not because the bearings last longer… but because replacements are everywhere. Hope hubs on a stock build is always a good thing in my opinion, for serviceability, not bling, reasons.
No the response I was expecting from any self respecting company who cares about loyalty and customer satisfaction would have been "I'm sorry to hear you feel this way, This doesn't sound good we hope we can put this right, speak with the shop etc etc". Not to insult me or brush me off and to say go elsewhere.
Looking at their Facebook page their wall is inundated with people just like me so maybe not here but at least I know I'm not on my own. All with bearing and freehub issues too which says everything I need to know.
No I'm not a pressure washer user, because I'm really that stupid I'd really pressure wash a brand new Nomad
Op, don't worry about the more judgemental comments.
I would be a little miffed too, in your situation.
I would see if the lbs can be persuaded to help further but I suspect you are looking at some new wheels in reality.....
Lesson learned and all that but I can see how it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
Hope you get it resolved one way or another and get back on the trails in time for the good weather! 👍
No I’m not a pressure washer user, because I’m really that stupid I’d really pressure wash a brand new Nomad
Ah,ok.Now I understand.
You speak to everybody like that.
Good luck with that.
Not to insult me or brush me off and to say go elsewhere.
Er… even from the bits of your conversation you have posted, you made it clear that you were staying clear of their products. They were just repeating what you said.
Anyway. Buy Hope. From a shop that'll look after you.
Quite admire their response tbh, they held their line respectfully and reasonably in the face of a temper tantrum, when they don't have any obligation to you or relationship with you at all.
TBH considering the attitude I wondered about this:
"Have had the shop strip and re-grease everything but after the following ride had the same issue again. The problem seemed to go away on the next ride but now the bearings have completely gone to pieces."
The shop just haven't fixed the problem, that's obvious. But you say "have had the shop do this"- is that what you demanded or was it their response? I can easily see you storming in and demanding that they strip and regrease it, then being upset when they do exactly what you ask and it doesn't work because you've insisted on the wrong thing... Your relationship is with the shop. Their relationship is with santa cruz, as is the relationship with Novatec and the buying decisions. But you are the common denominator...
Actually, it's the shop, then Jungle, then Santa Cruz. Novatec aren't involved at all, unless they want to be.
I'd take a good guess that the person replying doesn't speak English as a first language so there is probably quite a bit lost in translation at both ends. But why would anyone think that an OEM Joytech / Novatech product would work anywhere near as well as Chris King?! If one buys a bike on a budget that happens to have a 'high end' frame, and then cheap-ass components on it to hit the price point, one can't really expect trouble free riding. Other brands are available that would have provided a decent frame and components.
Swap it for a Shimano Deore cup-and-cone. It will last forever if you treat it properly, and cost about £25 (plus another £20 for some new spokes).
(Although it won't make a cool clicking noise when you coast).
stripping and regreasing failed cartridge bearings is a waste of time - you might free up a seized bearing but the bearing will still be shot. Bearings should have been replaced with decent quality ones when they first failed. Unfortunatly now you have broken a rim there is nothing you can do
They've done nothing wrong here.
You were rude to them and quite justifiably, they pushed back. You get what you give. If you'd been polite, asked for help "I know it's probably not a warranty thing but wondered if you could help me out at all?" you'd have done better.
"Good customer service" is not the same as "tolerating rude customers and acquiescing to their demands".
In my old job, I trained our CS team to give excellent, beyond expectation service to polite people, and legal minimum (complete with smilies in emails to make the rude customer look bad if the continued being rude and comms got shared anywhere) to rude, offensive or otherwise unpleasant ones.
Hopefully just like Sick, Novatec have identified that not all customers are good customers, and it's worth sacking off the rude, troublesome ones.
Lessons learned.
Not to insult me
U ok hun?
Looking at their Facebook page their wall is inundated with people just like me so maybe not here but at least I know I’m not on my own. All with bearing and freehub issues too which says everything I need to know.
Novatec sell an absolutely massive amount of kit, of course they’re going to have some unhappy customers.
I can’t think of an expression that sums up just how much I agree with Andyrm
I agree. It why I asked for the complete email chain in the 3rd post.
usually you only get this sort of response if you provoke.
i can understand why the op is annoyed but I’ve had the same with Chris king so not just “ cheap “ novatec.
My missus works in customer service, and the golden rule of complaining (according to her) is to know what you want, and give them the opportunity to offer it?
From the emails you've shared it doesn't look like you contacted novatec with any sort of resolution in mind, you were out for an argument/whinge...
Any customer service person worth their salt will try and dump you as there's no way to resolve the problems of a belligerent person who won't listen?
... The shop have done all they can...
No they bloody haven't, they've packed an already failing hub with extra grease, this is a "sawdust in the gearbox" kind of solution, I can't believe you will accept that, but get arsey when some fella, two continents away, who has no direct commitment to you and your dandyhorse gives you a relatively polite brush off...
I bet they've not contacted santa cruz have they.
Go back to the SHOP point out that SC have since changed the standard spec of hubs, point out the performance is well below what people would typically expect and mention SOGA and if necessary ombudsmen (as a final resort)...
But don't be belligerent and arsey, simply state you want it sorted and that you know the bike is within it's warranty period, ask them to contact SC and seek a proper resolution, and be clear in your own mind what sort of resolution you would accept...
A new hub, built in to a wheel with no expense to you would seem fair, or at least a full replacement set of bearings/FH. You might be pushing it if you expect a shiny DT/Hope replacement but you never know...
But if you want to focus your attention anywhere, it is on the shop...
As said above it's really your lbs problem, then distributor, then santa Cruz then novatec.
Stripping & regressing bearings pretty poor, lbs should've replaced them straight away with something better.
This is a well known problem with santa cruz
http://forums.mtbr.com/santa-cruz/novatec-hubs-specced-sc-bikes-1059901.html
Novatec have a big range & that santa Cruz chose to spec a budget hub, considering how much the bikes cost, is pretty poor!
https://issuu.com/mtb-vco.com/docs/catalogo_novatec_2017
Fwiw my novatecs (superstar) have been very reliable,
