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Due to marrying a Norfolk girl and moving to the mountain mecca that is north Norfolk, 90% of my riding has either been a singlespeed gravel bike around the bridleways, or fat bike on the beaches.
I last had a full sus 10 years ago and at the time i weighed 107kg so on trips to the Alps i found a coil shock was best, as i felt with my weight, air shock pressure was so high, it often wouldn't work too efficiently and preferred feel of a coil shock
Off to Alps again this summer, and bought a Sonder Evol frame off Alpkit ebay outlet store with no shock, so have free range on what i fit to it (210 x 55mm if anyone has anything in the garage?!), temptation again, bearing in mind it will mostly be used when i escape the flatlands, is to fit a coil shock, although i am now down to "svelte" 90kg, am i best going coil again, or have air shocks improved for us bigger guys, and if so, any recommendations?
If it were me, I'd get the Marzocchi CR and ride that. Decide what I did and didn't like, then send it to Avalanche for a tune.
It's an affordable shock, perfectly good in standard form and really easy to tune.
If it were me, I’d get the Marzocchi CR and ride that
So would I. They're lovely to ride I agree.
Thanks both, will have a look at them.. there is a Cane Creek Il on fleabay without spring, any good?
Cane Creek Inline is a great little shock and could be good with a progressive spring on that frame.
But buying one secondhand? Not sure about that as they can need warranty (and only get one year warranty new anyway).
Others may disagree.
Agree, I'd want a new shock if possible. Plus, if you get it from a suspension specialist, they might be able to advise/sell/swap the base tune for you.
By the way, have you checked if the kinematics suit a coil shock?
@onzadog, i haven't no, frame is usually sold with either Rockshox Deluxe Select+ RT or this frame had a Cane Creek air shock..
Yeah, that's why I thought I'd check. I've only seen it sold with an air shock. Worth checking how much progressivity there is from that linkage.
Will check before ordering anything cheers
What happens when you get to the alps, and the spring rate is wrong? Air spring can be tuned on holiday.
I was actually planning on riding it first…!
@scud Alpkit help/support/sponsor a member of staff called Zac Harrop (i think) who races EWS on an Evol with a coil shock.
I would email head office, and ask Neil (the designer) ether what Zac uses or can you be put in touch with him
Ian
It's a 4 bar design, so won't be that progressive compared to others, if you went coil, you'd probably want a progressive spring as well, do you need it, tough one, probably something like a Rockshox deluxe with megneg would be a good one, then it's just setting it up with the air pressure and spacers.
There's a couple of cheap rockshox deluxe at CRC, at £80 ones worth getting as a back up when you send of your main shock for service.
I loved my Bomber CR. But it blew up 3 times, so Fox sent me new Float X.
I was going to swap it to sell it on, but the local suspension shop talked me into keeping it. Very happy so far.
Not sure in Norfolk where you are but we ride at Weybourne/Sheringham quite a bit if you ever need someone to help you “test” that shock 🙂
It’s a 4 bar design, so won’t be that progressive compared to others
It doesn't work quite like that. A 4 bar can be progressive, fairly flat or even falling.
Just because it’s a 4 bar doesn’t mean it won’t be progressive enough to run a coil shock - it depends how it’s been designed.
My Sentinel is 4bar and meant to be coil compatible (although I’ve got the float x performance elite it came with it on there and so far it seems a decent shock) and my Bitd Aether was 4 bar and progressive - worked great with a DHX2 factory coil.
I think I’d check with Sonder first to see what they thought about a coil. If it is compatible and it’s mostly going to be for hurling down rocky / tech stuff I’d be tempted to go coil. I think there are a lot of decent coil shocks out there - I’d be tempted to go for one with lots of adjustments as I found on the DHX2 I moved away from the standard recommended tune - increased hsc for more support in sharp bombhole style compressions / decreased lsr / hsr for more pop etc. I’d probably look at:
Cane creek db coil (with piggyback if using in the alps)
Fox DHX2
Maybe a DVO Jade X - although I think it lacks hsc / hsr adjustment but has some other things that are meant to be good.
Stuff like Push / EST are step up again but very spendy.
If going with air shocks then make sure you have lsc adjustment on whatever you buy - gives you more control of pedal Bob / getting the pedal feel you like.
Anything like a Rockshox Super Deluxe / Fox Float X etc are decent enough. Cane Creek are probably a step above in terms of damping adjustment but seem to be more fussy about maintenance.
I think the DVO Topaz and Suntour Triair share a chassis - but have slightly different internals (topaz has a sealed bladder / Triair has an ifp) - the Triair often comes up at fairly cheap pricing for an air shock with piggyback.
am i best going coil again, or have air shocks improved for us bigger guys
Yes, No. Maybe...Yes air shocks have improved massively, and they're lighter and more (infinitely) adjustable, coil is still heavier and always will be, the spring rate may not be right, coil might not be best for the design of suspension...But if you get it right, coil feels better/nicer, can be grippier, and won't overheat as a bad on a long decent.
Cane creek db coil (with piggyback if using in the alps)
But if you get it right, coil feels better/nicer, can be grippier, and won’t overheat as a bad on a long decent.
what is it that actually overheats (and thus reduces performance)?
I've got a CCDBcoil inline but covid meant that its longest descent has been a nonstop top to bottom at BPW. Heading to morzine this summer.
@ayjaydoubleyou i always found as a heavier ride, that the air pressure needed in shock, would often mean that it started off ok, but the longer the descent, the more it would seem to get overheated and would stiffen and become overwhelmed, and a coil shock just felt better and so much more plush, but i am talking 10 years since i last rode in Alps or owned a larger travel bike.
@prezet i didn't know there were still trails at Sheringham, i thought they had been bulldozed?
Its the oil that warms and changes its damping performance. The CC shock you have is double barrel and ive found them really resistant to fade
Ian
If it were me, I’d get the Marzocchi CR and ride that. Decide what I did and didn’t like, then send it to Avalanche for a tune.
It’s an affordable shock, perfectly good in standard form and really easy to tune.
This, or similar.
I'm sure an expensive shock can be better than a more basic one, but a basic one tuned correctly certainly works much better than an expensive one set to defaults, or tuned based on how the distributor thinks you thought you described your riding, which may not bear much relation to reality.
Its the oil that warms and changes its damping performance. The CC shock you have is double barrel and ive found them really resistant to fade
It's a quadrouple whammy though, the coil shock can dissipate heat quicker (the preload collar threads act as a heatsink to the air, the damper isn't partially covered by the air can insulating it, there's less seal friction, and the spring rate doesn't rise with temperature).
Bear in mind just compressing and extending an air spring generates heat in the oil. It's a heat pump.
Compress air -> temperature goes up
The heat energy absorbed by the damper which is enclosed by the air can at full compression)
Decompress air -> temp returns to normal (because at full extension the air spring overlaps with the damper less it does this from the outside air)
Repeat.
^ all this! I wasnt suggesting that it was as good as a coil for thermal performance, just that it was good for an air shock.
Anyway, ive got an Evol with Kitsuma CCDB air and im excited to hear about coil shocks for it.
As i said Alpkit/sonder support a rider called Zac Harrop and he rides EWS with a coil.
Ian
@scud The old dual track got bulldozed when they did some logging. But just up from Weybourne station there are some new trails which the FC are happy to have there (currently) as long as nothing too stupid is built. We're up there on Sunday if you want to be shown where they are.
I’ve had a Bomber CR on my Bird AM9 since Oct 2020 and I would wholeheartedly recommend one. Had mine fettled by TF Tuned after a few months riding as I was right on the edge of the useable LSC and Rebound settings.
If you decide to go for an air shock I've got a pretty much new Deluxe in those dimensions sat doing nothing. Get in touch if you're interested.