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How do I stop myself?
Wait for the updated Solaris instead?
Despite what Cotic's marketing may say, they've always followed and never led the innovation of where bikes are today.
Bit harsh, they have certainly gone their own way with steel full-sus frames. If the new Soul is anything to go by, the next-gen ones will be spot-on.
I like it. The only thing stopping me buying one right now is I don't think my forks will fit 🙁
173mm steerer on it (pike I've taken off my sb6 as I've fitted a Lyrik), is there a really low stack short stem anyone does?
[quote=chilled76 ]I like it. The only thing stopping me buying one right now is I don't think my forks will fit
173mm steerer on it (pike I've taken off my sb6 as I've fitted a Lyrik), is there a really low stack short stem anyone does?
Ragley Stubbing stem is very low stack, 30mm.
That'll maybe do it.
110mm headtube plus 30mm stem leaves 33mm (plus a bit) for the headset cups to take up. Prob got 36mm to accommodate top and bottom cup maybe?
Anyone know the depth of hope headset cups for a tapered steerer?
You should be fine mate, remember you gain another 5mm or so that you need to preload the steerer.
Used a Stubbing myself to "rescue" a bike build that I hadn't researched properly earlier this year.
Looks like you need a "1" top and a "H" bottom. That's 31mm total stack height for the headset.
Thanks Scot. That's really helpful.
So from what I can see an E2 has really low stack and would work.
Only question is whether this would cause fork crowns to interface with the downtube. From what I can see Cotic usually spec externall cups on the bottom.
Edit. You've posted again.. will have another look
Cotic specify an external cup for the lower - and the upper.
Headset: 44mm external cup lower, 34mm traditional standard upper
http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/soul#compatibility
That's really helpful lads. Thanks!
Need to just mull this over... Think I need to start a different thread now rather than hijacking this one... alternatives???
[quote=chilled76 ]alternatives???
The orange one, surely??
chakaping - Member
Bit harsh, they have certainly gone their own way with steel full-sus frames. If the new Soul is anything to go by, the next-gen ones will be spot-on.
I hope so, I'd love a longer, slightly slacker Flare.
Talking about cotic's marketing of late they have definitely changed tack a bit a few years ago it was #26aintdead "no need for thru axles" etc where as now the latest Bfe is advertised as "longer lower slacker" 😕 I must admit they no longer seem to be the brand I thought they were and this is from someone who's owned 5 of their previous models
Do the new steel frames have any of the old "magic" of the pre CEN ones or are they now just selling based on a cliché? The ones I have tried may have had sorted geometry, better looks and more strength but they had lost much of their inherent steeliness (compared to an original Soul).
Conversely I have always been indifferent to the brand, albeit pleased that they seem to be doing well. Cy popping on here does himself and Cotic credit as well I think, however their full suspension offerings and the latest Bfe and Soul have got me pondering a purchase in the next year. Surprised at some of the comments above, although everyone is entitled to an opinion 😀
chakaping - MemberWait for the updated Solaris instead
True... if it goes the same way geo wise that would be even better..
Talking about cotic's marketing of late they have definitely changed tack a bit a few years ago it was #26aintdead "no need for thru axles" etc where as now the latest Bfe is advertised as "longer lower slacker" I must admit they no longer seem to be the brand I thought they were
I think you're right, they were a bit stick-in-the-mud about rear axles and geometry. Personally I welcome the new direction though.
If you want old geometry just buy a used frame and save a bundle, I certainly would.
[b]#26aintdead[/b] - more BFe26 frames are planned for next year - that doesn't prevent Cotic pushing and trying new models, like this Soul, as well.
[b]"no need for thru axles"[/b] - for hardtails, there probablly is still little 'need' for thru axles, but let's face it, QR is on the way out, so if you are buying a new bike/frame, you want it to take thru axle wheels.
Sign up to the Cotic newsletter, Cy explains all these things very well in it, why boost, why thru axle, how the geometry has evolved, why, material choices etc etc, he's not a bullshit spouting marketing man, he's an honest engineer who likes bikes and needs to keep his business profitable.
Before the latest Bfe, Soul and Solaris some were decrying Cotic for being behind the times, now they're accused of following suit. Can't win....
Sometimes, no matter who you are, or what your values or technical knowledge are, you have to adopt some trends/standards in industry purely so that you don't get left behind, because we consumers presume that if you're not doing what the big brands are (primarily to keep you buying new stuff) then your product is no good, or obsolete.
Cotic also sell a lot of frame only, which usually requires swapping parts, and if they've come off a bike from the last 2 or 3 years, will have all this new improved crap.
@Kryton get on the mailing list for Sam’s demos - then you can ride one, maybe even compare it with another bike in the range eg a BFe or a Solaris (normal or plus)
My comment wasn't a criticism of cotic's bikes or engineering merely an observation of their recent marketing. I've read the newsletter for years and owned or ridden most of their recent bikes and loved them.I was just surprised they used the same marketing twaddle all the other companies use 😀 I thought cotic were cooler than that 8)
That vid is a bit
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and a bit
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I like Guy's "enthusiastic" ride'n'talk videos… they're not for everyone though, are they.
in that last vid are they riding the woods near Chatsworth?
I like Guy's "enthusiastic" ride'n'talk videos… they're not for everyone though, are they.
I know he gets accused of hyperbole, but I think he's one of the better communicators in the MTB media.
However his policy of only doing videos on "the best bikes in the world" means that his channel lacks a bit of contrast.
Also it seems that some of the videos in that strand are #sponsored and some are not, which IMO is a no-no from an editorial POV (I write a fair bit of sponsored content myself).
Too late to edit, but the text actually suggests all the videos in that series are funded by the bike brands - but he's only started using the hashtag on the last few.
My comment wasn't a criticism of cotic's bikes or engineering merely an observation of their recent marketing.
+1
in that last vid are they riding the woods near Chatsworth?
Yep, looks like the stuff around Copy Wood and North Woods. Bridleways and a bit of cheek
The Hope Tech XC wheel set the gold/platinum complete bike comes with - aren't they a bit narrow for big volume rubber?
big Cotic fan here had a soul since 2009 always viewed cotic as classy and real with minimal blah,,,similar to how i see Turner, owner of Turner too.
marketing i guess attracts some and not others..
that video is not my cup of tea at all, sounds utter utter drivel, so i assume Cotic arnt aimed at me anymore... didnt like the rocket super hero video a few years back either.
still..great bikes and thats what matters and id still buy one.. ..pity there made so well as ive still got one 8 years on so dont need one...i do like the rocket tho..
having said all that im sure the owner of Cotic knows more than me about how to run a bike company...
The Hope Tech XC wheel set the gold/platinum complete bike comes with - aren't they a bit narrow for big volume rubber?
You can swap to Hope Tech Enduro when you order, for no extra cost…
https://www.cotic.co.uk/order/framebuilder/soul/custom
I think some people have asked to have them swapped for 35mm wide Hopes as well, not sure if those are the same price, you'd have to ask.
Oh nice, thanks Kelvin.
Some interesting comments on the marketing. Personally I like Guy enormously and the idea of doing a video with one of the blokes who rode the original back 2003 seemed too good to miss. And I would take slight issue with not ever had led the way on things. I designed and built the Soul because literally no one else was building that bike. If they had been it would have been far easier (although a lot less interesting) to buy that. The point of that video talking about how forward looking the bike was in 2003 is because I felt that had been lost along the way as the Soul became part of the MTB furniture - so to speak - and because they last aaaaaaages people keep them a long time and then get 'don't like change' syndrome. I feel the same with the original Rocket. Although the fact it was steel caught a lot of the headlines, you won't find many enduro/trail bikes in 2012 with a head angle in the 65s.
As for standards vs engineering principles - I still look at any new idea or interface standard critically, but I also balance it more now with a level of market pragmatism. We were very nearly put out of business by being grumpy-engineer about 27.5" wheels, then got completely mugged by most of the industry. Honestly, 27.5" wheels are better than 26" wheels. If it had been my decision i would have said it's not by enough to make the change, but that decision wasn't mine to make. Ask which is the better bike - the Soul26 or the original Soul275: Soul275 every time. It's better climbing, easier to load up into corners, more confidence inspiring. The new Soul is an even bigger step on for 275 than 275 was from 26.
Same as mentioned above about QRs on hardtails - there is absolutely no engineering reason was QRs aren't fit for purpose on the rear of a trail hardtail. None at all. Bit people have thru axle wheels, and what to be able to swap wheels between bikes sometime. So it's practicality. Sales show this. We ran BFe and Soul with QR or upcharge for thru axle for a year. Thru axle frames shot out the door, QR frames ended up being sold off.
It's also worth adding that actually once I'd given myself a good talking to a few years ago about not dismissing new things just because they're new, it's fun to get excited about new things and try them out. Plus wheels are a prime example. 2012 spec Cy would have just grumbled about 'another new thing', but when I figured out those original WTB tyres would go in my Solaris I got some and gave them a go, and they were an absolute hoot! Not everything goes that way, but I think everyone could benefit from being a little more open minded, about pretty much everything really!
Cheers!
that video is not my cup of tea at all, sounds utter utter drivel, so i assume Cotic arnt aimed at me anymore... didnt like the rocket super hero video a few years back either.
That's not the only marketing we're putting out there. If you like more straight-down-the-line stuff we are in the process of editing together a video of Paul chatting about his Souls down the years. He's been riding them since the very first prototypes and did most of the development on the new one.
If you have a hot beverage of your choice around there's also my long hand essay on the history of the bike too. Hopefully that's a bit more your thing?
[url= http://www.cotic.co.uk/news/2017/soullaunch ]Soul History Essay[/url]
Sometimes, no matter who you are, or what your values or technical knowledge are, you have to adopt some trends/standards in industry purely so that you don't get left behind, because we consumers presume that if you're not doing what the big brands are (primarily to keep you buying new stuff) then your product is no good, or obsolete.
Core, you are a very wise person, whoever you are 😉
The Hope Tech XC wheel set the gold/platinum complete bike comes with - aren't they a bit narrow for big volume rubber?
Kelvin covered it really, but we have no trouble running the XCs with the 2.3" WTB rubber the bikes come with. If you're looking at the 2.5" WTB Convicts or 2.5" Maxxis WT tyre options we offer then the 35W is probably a better bet.
Thanks for the honest feedback Cy.
Being able to hear from the man behind the company (imho) makes all the difference.
I know I appreciate the time you take to reply to emails etc.
So as I mentioned recently in email I wish Cotic all success with the new Soul and the direct sales.
In the meantime I'll be out tomorrow on my loyal mk1 Solaris and wearing my new socks 😆
2012 spec Cy
Is 2017 spec Cy longer, lower and slacker? What can we expect from the 2018 model?
Is 2017 spec Cy longer, lower and slacker? What can we expect from the 2018 model?
A bolt-through rear?
2018 model? More responsive and confidence inspiring 😉
On the photo's which of the X-Fusion forks is the one with the black stanchions?
It's the latest Sweep. The 2018 model year forks we started receiving in October are all black with those new subtle graphics.
I quite liked the recent Soul video, if I was criticising it would be that Guy can look a little unnatural trying to grin toothily at the camera while talking, but that’s nit picking.
Totally appreciate the input Cy, I’d agree my Soul275 is probably the best bike I’ve ridden for me, can’t wait to get my hands on a mk5 (before the mercury and orange mediums sell out!) 😀
So....anyone ridden one yet? I've just ordered a frame to swap parts on to. Mercury/orange.
Don't know if I can wait until Thursday, next day delivery being almost standardised has spoiled me I suppose.
Still, I'm sure I'll manage to not pull a sickie and be found knocking on Cotics door at 7am one morning before then....
Yes I had a very brief ride, prior to placing my order for a complete bike. Collection next week, sadly then to be packaged up and shipped back home, so I won't be able to really try it out until mid Feb properly ...
First impressions were good light, lively and responsive. I still can't get used to the front wheel being so far in front - however that's just modern geometry and with use I'm sure I will do.
I've entered some xc triathlons this year and I'm really looking forward to seeing how i do on the soul!
Cy, as you drop in and out are you able to comment on mine and a few others question please?
Will the solarisMAX be getting similar treatment as well as being optimised for 29er wheels rather than chubby 27?