I thought that about longer travel when I got my KSL, but its certainly slower in woodsy singletrack than the Heckler. The Heckler is MX too, so I'm sure that assists with the difference in feel as well as different geometry in addition to a little bit less travel.
KSL is absolutely not a bad bike, but it wasn't quite right for my riding.
I have an alloy Rise. I can easily get 4000' out of the internal battery.
OK, it's hard work but that was what I wanted, a bike with some assistance rather than an bike that does all the work.
If you demo any shimano bikes (I'm sure others will have something similar) try to play with the power settings in the Shimano app. It's not just the amount of power in each mode that can be tweaked, there's also the 'characteristic' I think it's called. It's basically how much effort you need to put in to achieve the power available in each mode.
So, you might have Trail mode set to 42nM. This is the maximum power the motor will deliver in that mode. Setting the characteristic to a low number means you'll have to work hard to achieve that level (or any level) of assistance whereas setting it to a higher number means it needs less effort from you to get the same power.
That setting has a huge impact on how the bike feels to ride.
I have Eco mode set to the minimum of 20nM and it still feels like slightly more that I'd like sometimes.
Any time I start the ride off in trail mode though, Eco always feels like it's not doing anything. I think it's too easy to get used to the assistance and you start to miss it when it's not there. I think this is why people who have ridden FF bikes say that SL bikes are too low on power. They're not, you just need to get used to it
I went for the Heckler SL and hope the Fazua complaints are over repeated as it is really enjoyable to ride. It probably has too much power for my use as I rarely go higher than it's middle setting and am happy pedaling the flats with the lower powered setting . The highest power is perfect for pushing a mate up the hill
Fat man buys ebike shocker.
Thanks Bens very useful.
So hopefully I could set motor profiles to work for my local rides ie lots of assist to get the nasty horrible road sections over and done with and the less assist for when I get to the nice off road stuff.
From the sound of it I could also set a profile for 'big days out' with lower assistance.
Fat man buys ebike shocker.
Congratulations you win a prize 🙂
I went for the Heckler SL
Hopefully I can test ride one this weekend
I’ll be interested to hear how you like the heckler, always been a SC rider but reports of the fazua aren’t good. That and their insistence just lately to put shocks where nobody can see them or get to them!
Stuff that's probably/maybe been mentioned and worth bearing in mind based on my experience as as sort of foster parent to a Turbo Levo, which I ride occasionally.
One is that personally I find the additional weight of the full-fat e-mtb a bit problematic on proper steep downhill, nadgery stuff. It has a tendency towards 'run-away train' mode compared to a normal bike. Plenty of people don't seem to have that issue and maybe it would lbe ess of one if I rode it more, but it's what makes the idea of a lightweight e-mtb more attractive to me.
Second, I find motor noise intrusive. I get that a lot of people don't care, but one of the attractions, for me, of being out on the bike, is escaping from all that man-made racket rather than taking it with me. The Levo - an older, 2017 one - is very quiet in eco, so not bad. The latest Levo SL is supposed to be very quiet indeed. Some e-mtbs at full chat sounds like a small combine harvester, which personally I dislike.
Third, I'm not particularly fussed about flying up climbs at speed. I get that that there's a certain exhilaration to it and I like climbing fast up stuff without a motor, but really for me, I just want the assist to take the edge off the effort rather than being an event in itself. It's easy to get hung up on power output etc and I guess if your thing is smashing out quick laps or maximising descent in a ride/time span then it's relevant, but for me it's more about energy conservation.
Not saying those takes are more or less valid than anyone else's, but maybe worth bearing in mind.
Having had & ridden various ‘SL’ ebikes, I still am of the opinion I wouldnt bother with one, as they still don’t offer me anything more than a normal bike, apart from some of the outlier spurious range/elevation claims which are more than my 62kg Elite XC racing riding buddy can manage on one. 😆
By the time my Kenevo was was an appropriate spec, it was nearly 21kg. My Rail is 23.5kg with a 750wH battery.
I still maintain if it was my only bike, then it might sneak back into the ‘maybe’ category, but then I think I would just be p*ssed off with the reliability aspect, also not being able to race it, taking it abroad is a PITA, etc.
BadleyWiredDog - I am with you on all your comments. Even in the pic above I dont want a bike to just elevate me to the top, I want to work for it, I just want to have enough juice left in my own tank to continue the ride on rather than be too empty to continue.
To get to the local riding near me means some road sections of between 10-20% climbs. This is no fun whatsoever to me on an mtb and more than happy to use what ever power I can to get through this.
Motor noise - This is something hopefully after the weekend I will know where my own thoughts are. I do like being out in nature for the very reasons of it being quiet and away from man made stuff. But I guess you cant have your cake and eat it.
By the time my Kenevo was was an appropriate spec, it was nearly 21kg. My Rail is 23.5kg with a 750wH battery.
Yeah I think this is why quite a lot of the manufacturers are very cagey about their weights. By the time you get a light weight emtb at affordable spec, I dont think they are far off the weight of full fat. I do want to ride a full fat just for comparison.
Weights of the new Rise cannot be found anywhere currently, but on a Facebook Group someone has said the M10 LT with 630wh battery in Large is 20.3kg. Thats pretty good for the battery and access to full fat emtb capability
Warranty Claims - I was on a phone call to a bike shop yesterday. They said Orbea still pay bikes shops to do warranty work ie their labour costs etc where as many brands do not. My LBS is an Orbea dealer (15 mins away) but they cant get any new stock. I can get an Orbea just under 2hrs from where I live. If Orbea still pay shops to do proper warranty work i assume this means my LBS is more likely to be happy to deal with an Orbea in the future, even if I didnt buy it from them?
Hob-NobFree Member
My Rail is 23.5kg with a 750wH battery.
What clever witchcraft have you done with your Rail? Mine is same frame/size as yours, but I'm a full KG heavier - and I can't imagine you're not on DH tyres. Carbon wheels? (and out of curiosity - what brakes? Don't care much for the Codes mine came with)
Warranty - my Cannondale had to go back for some engine rattle (loose bolts) - I'd bought from Leisure Lakes, but it was sorted by a local Cannondale dealer. I'd assume Orbea set up is similar
By the time you get a light weight emtb at affordable spec
My fuel exe is 19.3kg with pedals, with fox 38 160mm fork. Continental kryptotal/xynotal enduro casing tyres, magura mt7 brakes, t type axs derailleur and the main battery.
With no battery at all it's 17.3kg
With just the range extender is 18.3kg
With the main battery+ range extender it's 20.3kg
A lot of the sl ebikes use very thin light tyres in their out of the box spec (and the fuel exe is no exception) in order to hit a low headline weight.
I think your looking at 19-20kg for most sl ebikes for a good solid build that suits a more downhill bias.
What clever witchcraft have you done with your Rail? Mine is same frame/size as yours, but I’m a full KG heavier – and I can’t imagine you’re not on DH tyres. Carbon wheels? (and out of curiosity – what brakes?
Battery lock removed (with all the plate, gubbins, etc it’s ~500g alone!). Running Conti Enduro casing tyres, reasonably light sets of wheels I had spare, Trickstuff brakes, light saddle, XX T-Type, etc. I reckon I could probably get it close to 23kg with a lighter shock too.
That sounds ridiculous, as I didn’t intend to build it light, and to a degree, I don’t really care about weight on bikes (as long as it wasn’t a 28kg tank) but I had some nice bits spare, so this is how it ended up.
Battery lock removed (with all the plate, gubbins, etc it’s ~500g alone!). Running Conti Enduro casing tyres, reasonably light sets of wheels I had spare, Trickstuff brakes, light saddle, XX T-Type, etc. I reckon I could probably get it close to 23kg with a lighter shock too.
And my similar high spec KSL with Michelin Wild Enduro's is 19kg - I know which one I'm happy lifting over a gate...
I see this point (along with lifting it onto a roof rack of a car, etc) raised a few times, but in 5 years of riding ebikes, I have never once, needed to lift it over a gate. Maybe it’s not a thing on the England/Wales border.
Obviously, YMMV, but it’s really not an issue in my world.
I've only had to lift over a gate once - but that's cos I was on a footpath. Nearly didn't make the rest of the ride, bloody killed me 😂
Hob-NobFree Member
Battery lock removed (with all the plate, gubbins, etc it’s ~500g alone!). Running Conti Enduro casing tyres, reasonably light sets of wheels I had spare, Trickstuff brakes, light saddle, XX T-Type, etc. I reckon I could probably get it close to 23kg with a lighter shock too.
Interesting.... I have the Enduro Contis on the regular bike, find them excellent, but figured I'd go full sticky for the Ebike. Saw a thread on the battery lock, it is a bit of a useless feature - had no idea it was that much.
Will be running the same shock as you, whenever the Vivid is back in stock...... Tempted by Trickstuff, but such silly money - that said, it's the new norm, there are two more German brands with the same pricing now
@funkydunc I had issues with the rear linkage ( along with many others ) on my 2022 Rise . My Orbea dealer is a 3 hour round trip away but they organised the replacement parts from Orbea then sent them to my LBS who fitted them under warranty. LBS said the guys at the Orbea dealer Ark Cycles Stroud formerly Noah's Ark ( remember them 👍) we very helpful . Saved me 2 ballache trips .
I’ve figured a ‘light weight’ emtb just because theres a chance of getting it over gates/walls etc, and occasionally getting it on the car roof rack.
Best save some of the budget for a decent gym membership/home gym set up. And forget anything that has a non removable battery.
I can get my Canyon Strive over a gate with a struggle (and help if available). No chance of getting it on a car roof though.
Maybe it’s not a thing on the England/Wales border.
That's because you're only allowed to ride on roads & bridleways whereas I live in Scotland and can pretty much ride ANYWHERE 🙂
The demo Levo SL was loud, I couldn’t hear my husbands rail over the noise now whether that’s because it’s a demo that will of had a hard life I don’t know but it was far from ‘quiet’.
Lifting over gates etc. is a real concern and being the weight I am personally I’m not going to be able to manoeuvre a full fat bike. We’ve been in a fair few situations where we’ve needed to lift the rail over gates etc. I guess it depends how much you travel round or whether you stick to your local stuff. We did HBR this week and crossed the narrow bridge at the end which has two gates at either end, even manipulating on to the back wheel takes effort. He couldn’t get it through the one end due to a height restriction (stupid XL bike) and we had to do a two person lift.
The demo Levo SL was loud, I couldn’t hear my husbands rail over the noise now whether that’s because it’s a demo that will of had a hard life I don’t know but it was far from ‘quiet’.
That's interesting. Specialized supposedly modified the motor and its gubbins to make it quieter and reviews I've read/watched suggest that it's almost silent. Eg from this site, below. I wonder if the one you tried was, as you say, on the way out.
Specialized SL 1.2 motor
Besides its 50Nm torque and 320 watts peak power, what’s new about the 1.2 motor? It’s now contained in a two-piece housing (instead of three-piece) which has a lining shaped like honeycomb to help quell and dissipate noise. Specialized claim that it’s around 34-45% quieter than the SL 1.2.]
During the two days I had in North Wales riding the new Levo SL I didn’t have a TQ motor bike on hand to directly compare their loudness. Suffice to say, it is loads quieter than previous SL bikes. I’d still say that the TQ is the quieter of the systems but the SL 1.2 is certainly more than quiet enough; you can’t hear it once riding off-road and/or riding faster than jogging speed (the trail and/or wind noise drowns it out).
https://singletrackworld.com/charged/2023/05/specialized-levo-sl-review/
So hopefully I could set motor profiles to work for my local rides ie lots of assist to get the nasty horrible road sections over and done with and the less assist for when I get to the nice off road stuff.
From the sound of it I could also set a profile for ‘big days out’ with lower assistance.
Default on my Rise, there are 2 profiles available, each with 3 power modes. Eco/ Trail/ Boost. Using the app you can configure the max power, set the characteristics and some other things for each power mode in each profile.
So yeah, you can do what you suggest. I have profile 1 set at 20nm/38nm/50nm. This is how I ride pretty much everything but I've left profile 2 on the default settings which I think are 30someting/42/62. If I burn out early, I can swap over to profile 2 to get a bit of extra help in each of the settings.
On the road thing, I prefer to keep it in Eco and just spin away on road sections. At least getting a bit of cardio in and a bit of a leg burn. Using max assist to get it over and done with will burn the battery up unnecessarily fast. You'll be motoring along at 15.7mph bouncing off the limiter just because you can.
I also find that if I do up the power on the road sections, the psychological effect when you get back off road is that the assistance isn't doing much so I tend to want to keep it in trail mode to get the responsive feel back. This starts to eat into the range.
I think there's a lot getting used to it, which ever bike you end up with.
When I first got mine, I was getting 3000ish feet from the battery (and I was a lot fitter than I am now). Now I'll easily get 4000' over say, 30 miles and finish the ride with 20-30% left.
No way it was ‘you can’t hear it off road’, as soon as I pedalled the husband said ‘loud isn’t it’ and everybody knew I was coming that’s for sure.
@GolfChick was it a Levo SL or a SL2? The second gen motor is significantly quieter than the gen 1.
The SL2, they had both available but I specifically booked the gen 2 for the newer motor.
The Heckler SL is very quiet, hope the test ride goes well.
Actually agreeing with GK 👍
Just weighed my trusty Levo after reading this - it’s 24.3kg with the horrible mudguards so 23.9kg without (120+300g). It’s the alloy 500Wh one from late 2018, 160mm Lyrik, LinkGlide drivetrain (just gone to 10 speed from 11), EX511/Pro4 wheels.
I haven’t ridden any of the light e-bikes but I can confirm that as an average height but reasonably strong 40something man, putting a ~24kg bike on a roofrack of an MPV isn’t a whole lot of fun. I might take the battery out next time as I gather that weighs ~3kg so would make me a bit less incomfortable about technically exceeding the weight limit of the Thule carrier…
The motor is pretty damned quiet even in Turbo. It’s fast uphill, fast downhill (too fast?), even with slightly dated geometry.
Decision made, and it’s a Rise M10 LT 630wh + DI2
Yesterday I test road in order - Rise SL, Rise LT, Whyte E-Lyte, Levo SL, Rise LT
Bear in mind I’m coming from a 100mm travel 26er XC bike from 2012!! All these bikes are so much more competent. Some stuff that would have me picking lines, or over the bars on current bike were so easy. Speeds were significantly higher downhill or in singletrack .
The Rise SL was the closest to my current bike, but still way more competent apart from the tyres which were very XC. The Fox34 felt a bit firm, but then went through their travel when pushed
The Rise LT was in low chip setting. Even stationary it felt a little more relaxed in the geometry. Weirdly straight away on the downs it felt more stable and odly quicker steering/ more playful. That could have just been me feeling more relaxed because of the more relaxed geo and lower BB, really enjoyed riding it. This was a 420wh version. Even the Orbea guys said it is slightly more nimble than the 630wh so will have to see when it comes.
Whyte - wanted to like it, looked at it and just looked a bit meh. Boring colour, looked a bit industrial/ cheap. Money definitely gone in to the components. They only had a medium to demo and I was at the max that the seat would go down. I felt like I needed a small, but besides that the front end felt high. Riding the front wheel lacked feel, which again I think was a size issue. It felt like a bike that takes you for a ride , rather than you riding it if that makes sense. It wasn’t slow and handle everything with ease, just wasn’t engaging me. Was just a bit Ford Mondeo, does everything well but just no sparkle
Levo SL - Brilliant but flawed. Very poppy, agile, engaging, slightly more so than the Rise LT ie 9/10 rather than 8/10. However I couldn’t get over the battery range and motor anxiety. Even before taking the bike out some of the Specialized guys were saying to maybe buy the range extender, which is a compromise I would make, however coupled with the motor power issue below it unfortunately made it a no. Very nice bike though!
Rise LT / took it out again to back to back with the Levo , this time the battery was dead so had to pedal it. Reinforced my initial thoughts and very similar fun to the Levo just in a slightly different way.
I didn’t have time to try a full fat. Santa Cruz weren’t there and apparently stock can be an issue at the minute .
Motors - The Shimano felt natural at its less powerful settings. The extra power mode was nuts, way above anything the other motors could offer. I didn’t hear any knocking.
The BOSCH motor felt the most refined mechanically, but made a weird noise when you stopped pedalling. It also through a wobbly half way round and went in to limp mode. Switching it off and back on solved it
Levo SL - was slightly odd, and I don’t know if they messed around with the power settings. The low was almost none existent, and the mid felt almost identical to the top. It rode nicely in the mid setting in technical singletrack , but the motor felt out of its depth climbing steeper fire roads where even in high I was working much harder than on any other bike. Was also the loudest motor too !
Biggest surprise of the day for me was electric shifting. Always thought it was a gimmick, but it’s bloody brilliant especially on an ebike in tech singletrack / techy up and downs when your speeds are much higher than an analogue bike. So much so I’ve put DI2 as an upgrade. Di2 shifters are awful compared to SRAM but will be interesting to see how well freeshift works, not sure if I will bother with autoshift.
The Rise LT won because it’s competent, playful, incredibly powerful motor, although I think not want that setting for steep roads and to eliminate steep fire roads, I shouldn’t get range anxiety either
Interesting that you found the Levo SL the loudest which sort of echo'd my impression. I also agree with the demo I took out, the mid and high felt almsot identical. I put it in high to try shooting up a very small sharp bit at GT and stalled halfway and had to hop off because it was gutless. I wonder if the shimano has been reduced or if it just wasn't chattery enough terrain to show up. Shame about the whyte because I'd have thought with the bosch it would be a contender but I dont like the hope bling they throw on the top model and I'm not chucking £10k at it.
Shame about the whyte because I’d have thought with the bosch it would be a contender
The Whyte was in no way bad, just didnt do anything for me, it was in no way less competent than the others, just a different ride characteristic IMO.
The only other thing I havent commented on is weight. They all felt the same weight to regardless of the odd kilo here or there.
I don't have a Levo SL so don't know this translates, but the FF Levo's Trail (mid) and Turbo (max) modes have the same max power output but you need to put (alot) more input into trail mode, where-as Turbo work with only a minimal input of the pedaling input (140w apparently)
Quote from Specialized post (regarding trail mode, set to the std): "35%, you're getting approx 1.5x rider support. This will feel much more natural to ride and you'll use less battery - in Trail mode with 100% peak power the motor will still reach it's maximum assist of 560W but this time you need to put in 390W rider power to get there"
This was the M-Team version, but in reality it isnt going to be much different in spec, mainly an air shock rather than coil.
Nice! Are they still quoting a November arrival in the UK?
10K ?
Are they still quoting a November arrival in the UK?
Take a look at the Orbea website, its actually very good in terms of it tells you were all potential stock is in the UK, and ETAs
I believe Leisure Lakes pre ordered about 20 bikes (various models/sizes) which will come in early July time. Looking on Orbea it looks like stuff that isnt pre ordered is Nov/Dec delivery. I know thats what a couple of my more local LBSs are as they hadnt pre ordered.
10K ?
Invoice price of £7,779. I am getting a 'free' Di2 upgrade as well 🙂 If you attend Leisure Lakes demo days they offer up to 10% off RRP bikes which isnt bad on bikes that are these silly prices.
The bike is going on salary sacrifice so Leisure Lakes said they couldn't do 10% discount but did put the Di2 in the deal. Looks as though roughly its going to cost £5k all in over 1 year on SS.
Have to say the service I've had from Leisure Lakes has been first class so far. First time Ive bought anything from then since probably 1992 when I bought a Klein Fervor from them in Bury when they were still selling windsurfing stuff, before they moved to the bigger shop in Bury
In defence of cubes….My other mtb is a PX vandal which has pretty modern geo and I don’t find myself relearning how to ride a bike on the cube. 750 battery meant we did three Angus Glens with 1km of climbing and 50km and each had 30% battery left recently. However after work I went to the local woods and spend an hour on turbo…and did a third of that.😊
I can get 70 miles out of one charge with my fuel exe it only really gets turned on when I am knackered and the hill is just a wee bit too much for the 50 year old legs , it rides like a standard fuel ex but has the addition of the power for hills , even 10 percent assist on lowest setting is enough.
If you want to turbo it and I say turbo with a smile because it isnt a bosch or levo level kick by any stretch you will get 20 miles
Its reay more like an MTB for people who want to ride like they stole it down hill but are reaching peak age where uphills = a lot more effort than they need to and so a gentle helping hand is on offer.
Any time I start the ride off in trail mode though, Eco always feels like it’s not doing anything. I think it’s too easy to get used to the assistance and you start to miss it when it’s not there. I think this is why people who have ridden FF bikes say that SL bikes are too low on power. They’re not, you just need to get used to it
I can ride my Rise with the motor off and it's no real problem if I start a ride like that, but ride it with assistance and then turn it off and it feels terrible. Same issue if I ride a meat bike off road now - have to adjust the speed I tackle the climbs at or just break myself.
Weights of the new Rise cannot be found anywhere currently, but on a Facebook Group someone has said the M10 LT with 630wh battery in Large is 20.3kg.
This was a 420wh version. Even the Orbea guys said it is slightly more nimble than the 630wh so will have to see when it comes.
Orbea are claiming the new bike is lighter than the old one. A few changes to the frame will have added a little (saw something about 50g for the brace) but the biggest difference is the battery. New 620 is a kilo heavier than the OG360 but 900g lighter than the original 360 plus range extender (which gave about the same capacity)
I think the weights look like this - the new battery is lighter than the original by about 400g.
420wh + 400g = OG360wh +600g = 620wh +900g = OG360+RX
