New Cotic Solarismax

Ouch , that is a significant increase. I'm glad I bought an Smax before they stopped production . It's all very well saying making frames in Czechia cut carbon miles in transport but I suspect more people will be looking at price rather than green credentials 

I personally think that it is absurd pricing, must be approaching "custom" money. If you are really worried about carbon footprint you either buy second hand or keep riding the bike you have. 

Buying from Eastern Europe and saying it reduces carbon impact may be true, but I suspect it is more of a feel good factor than anything truly impactful. Would be interested to see the figures for both, rather than press release fluff.

I imagine that the biggest reduction to carbon output will be selling far fewer of them..... 

Wow... gone from 950 to 1200?

And duty on top for EU customers? Or will frames ship from Czech?

To save other people having to look. £1200 for a frame

I’ve been meaning to post about this. I kept thinking it was a mistake. Hugely more than a BFe or even a Cascade frame and fork. It also jumps the Fairlight Holt and is about the same as the titanium Broken road.

As I’m looking, very vaguely, at a bike not a frame the % jump is smaller

However the change back to being a Solaris probably makes it even more special. It also gets rack mounting on the drop outs

I remember looking up the amount of carbon needed to ship things. It was less than I thought. It’s obviously much more important for food which I buy daily rather than a bikes where I might have for 10 years

At the frequency I buy bikes I'm not really bothered how far they travel to get here. It makes sod all difference to anything.

I'm a previous Cotic owner but they've long since gone exotic with their pricing.

Blimey, that makes Santa Cruz look cheap! Twice the price of my 853 framed Pace.

That's really jumped in price. I believe the Holt is made in Europe too but squeaks in at 999 (for now). You can get a Curtis for a few hundred more. I love the look and idea of the new Solaris but it's way out of my league. Be interesting to see the new pace, and of it's an xc machine, also possibly made in Europe...

Crikey I remember lusting after a hl turner flux and thinking £1295 was outrageous

“And duty on top for EU customers? Or will frames ship from Czech?”

If it’s made in the EU then there will be no duty, however many times it goes between the UK and an EU country, or vice versa.

Depends on a few things, if painted in UK, etc, it might still attract duty

Was interested in this for ages and been waiting for pictures etc. I'm sure they were originally due October, then November, now next year.  I'm sure they were £800 ish when announced as well. Price is a bit of a jump too far for me, RC259 would get my money now if they did a nice colour.

There's a new 'something' from Pace due this month and allegedly a Sherpa gen4 on its way,  it'll be interesting how they are pitched price wise, this could seem reasonable but I doubt it.

“Depends on a few things, if painted in UK, etc, it might still attract duty”

It doesn’t matter what is done to it, as long as that work is mostly done in the UK or EU, however many times it goes back and forth and however many locations the work is done in. That’s how the (utterly rubbish) free trade agreement works.

Well, regardless of 4, 14 or 0 per cent duty, 1200 is a non starter for me. A near 30% price hike just seems kind of outrageous, moreso in the current market. 

£1200 for a steel hardtail frame, **** off! That's bloody ridiculous.

Crikey.

You can get a Kingdom bike Vendetta X3 for just £99 more at the moment. I know what I would choose.

Not saying they're the same offering exactly, but compared to 700 for a Taiwanese Sherpa or 1k for a UK Sherpa it's definitely steep.

Ide rather have a Marley 290/big al bth at nearly 90 per cent less. Maybe Cotic are struggling to stay in business...

Does seem a tad steep. I was thinking of either a Cotic or Pipedream this year and actually pre-ordered the Pipedream but delays have put paid to that and the price for the Cotic has as well TBH.
I have now ordered a custom made steel frame, built in the UK for just a sniff over £1000 with geo tweaks and none of the stuff I don't need or want such as 10,000 mounting points to bolt my kitchen sink on😁

I'm a cotic fanboy, I own 2 and I've owned, uh, 8 I think? Great bikes, great company to deal with but £1200 for an off the peg steel hardtail, lol, no.

I’ve always been a fan too, although for various reasons I’ve never actually bought one. I was seriously after a Jeht a couple of years ago when I got an insurance payout for my old bike being stolen, but I ended up with nearly a grand more if I spent it at Tredz, so my money went on a brand available there instead. I then decided I’d get one of their hardtails, and nearly got a BFE when they were selling them cheap a while ago - but I actually wanted a Solaris so decided to save up. Now it’s got way too much for me, especially as there are great deals around at the moment on other brands.

I’m a cotic fanboy, I own 2 and I’ve owned, uh, 8 I think? Great bikes, great company to deal with but £1200 for an off the peg steel hardtail, lol, no.

I'm the same as you, had multiple Cotic bikes over the years and absolutely loved them but that's crazy expensive for what it is. 

https://singularcycles.com/products/swift-steel

It’s a big increase, which is a shock to the system but based on inflation over the last few years, va the bread and butter in your cupboard it is a steal! Compare it to the Fairlight Holt for example.

On the other hand it makes their full suspension bikes look remarkable value

Plus, that amount of drillium to make it lighter (or are they just lots of mounting points?) can’t come cheap. I would rather have one slightly cheaper with just the normal amount of bottle mounts that also look better. For me that’s a much bigger turn off than the price

I'm reserving judgement till we see actual photos but it does seem steep. I was thinking of a Solaris as I couldn't justify a Holt 🙁 but now no idea. The worry being this might be a sign of things to come in the industry.

200 extra on top of a swift, for 853, and made in Europe, it's not awful.

It does make the Holt look good value.

Go and look how much a mason raw is

Go and look how much a mason raw is

£1695

Love Cotic, but nah, sorry.

When comparing with the swift, worth remembering that comes with a fork! Pretty sure they're Taiwanese made.

Compared to a UK made options like a Shand Bahookie or even a similar Solaris frame if it were made by 5 Land bikes, the Czechia built option from Fort does look good value.  I think that it's just that we've become accustomed to Taiwanese mass production/lower wages, whereas this is a bit more realistic and is a lot closer to an artisan product.  You pays your money, takes your choice.  This must be such a tricky challenge for the smaller firms at the moment, especially as the likes of Cotic are offering a broad range of custom builds.  You have to stand out to get the sales, both in terms of niche and quality.

PS I love my 2018 Solaris max; it's such a do-everything bike. That frame probably cost me around £600(?), I forget.

I picked up a Solaris Max a couple years ago for £680 with a headset and I was treating myself. I thought that was quite pricy then. £1200 is a bizar price. I can get a custom 853 frame from £1300 UK made. Recently picked up a BFe Max in the sale for £450 with a headset and thought that was a bargain. Not sure how this can be almost 3x more.

I don't associate Eastern Europe with quality and exotica either, but rather heavy industry using cheap steel. Lots of rusty cars have come out of that region.

I've had 5 Cotics, so class myself as a fan, but this is just a weird direction in my opinion. Wish them all the best! A Rocket Max is still on my list (and looks better value compared to the Solaris).

I picked up a Stooge Speedbomb last week- thats £820 for frame & fork! Complicated frame design, EBB & double crown fork. Sure it's only 4130 cromo, but that is a bit of a brgain in comparison.

PS I love my 2018 Solaris max; it’s such a do-everything bike. That frame probably cost me around £600(?), I forget.

Yeah I had one around then, think it was £650ish?

Double that is rather ambitious, to say the least.

Cotic make great bikes but they've usually been for normal riders, not the kind of ponces who buy the expensive brands mentioned in comparison above.

The email suggested this move to European building was because Taiwan couldn't deliver. This might sound harsh, but that falls into "not my problem".

Yet people will be dumb enough to put their orders in, continuing the rip off that is the bike industry, the bubble will burst and greed will be the culprit.

Yeah I had one around then, think it was £650ish?

i paid 600 then but that was minus vat.

They were a great frame… apart from the seet stay issues, but the paintwork wasn’t the best. I hope they have that sorted at such a price.

Not too far off curtis prices there. I know which I'd have if I was looking in that cost bracket. But I'd probably end up with a holt, or nordest and change.

Yet people will be dumb enough to put their orders in, continuing the rip off that is the bike industry, the bubble will burst and greed will be the culprit.

Harsh. With regard your comment and others, I can't imagine Cy is pricing this based on being greedy, he must realise this is a big leap in price and he'll know that its going to be a limiting factor for customers but I'm sure he'll have worked the figures to get the cost low as possible whilst sufficient to keep his business viable.

Too pricey for me which is a shame as a former cotic owner though

I wonder if making them in Czechia will make sense for Cotic at the moment as the minimum order is probably far less than ordering a batch from the far east. Less stock to hold and less risk at a time when everyone is over stocked.

But I’d probably end up with a holt, or nordest and change.

For those that are looking... Nordest have a sale at the moment, Bardino is down to €599. Great price if they have your size. It's Taiwan built and 4130 throughout though, so cheaper than a BFeMAX in terms of cost to manufacture. Building in Europe costs more. 853 costs more. Oh, Taiwan built BFeMAX is still a thing by the way, so that's where to look for a more affordable Cotic frame. Cotic are now having frames manufactured in Taiwan, UK and Czechia, depending on model, and each model is priced based on the costs involved.

What am I missing with this, why is it priced so high compared to relatively similar offerings from other brands?

I can buy a Orange P7 29er frame for £650 or a Pace RC529 made out of 853 for £682 (£582 atm). What's so special about the Cotic to make it nearly twice the price?

Has anybody seen one set? are there any pics?

it's interesting to read the posts above, as there's clearly a lot of respect for Cotic and what they've done. I've reflected on my earlier post and I'm still interested to see what it's going to be like. I do really want a nice steel hardtail and this was high on the list. It wasn't perfect as i'm not a fan of all the bosses on it and the BB looks a little too low for my tastes (on paper anyway), but for the price I would have been happy to compromise.

Jumping a price bracket (or two) does alter the competition though now. I understand Cy and the team will always try and be competitive in the market and I think this is a reflection of where things are going. I'm sure it will be a brilliant bike for those who are happy to pay the money.

I wish I'd never sold my pre Longshot Solaris Max ...

At the frequency I buy bikes I’m not really bothered how far they travel to get here. It makes sod all difference to anything

If it was just the one bike that you're buying then yes, you may have a point, but it's also all the other bikes that everyone else buys as well which makes the difference

The email suggested this move to European building was because Taiwan couldn’t deliver. This might sound harsh, but that falls into “not my problem”

That may be true, but a company that exists to sell stuff, doesn't - if it can't get stock to sell. I'm mates with most of the Cotic guys and I know they've lost a lot of business by having to ask customers who want a bike and have the money there, ready and waiting to sit on it an unpredictable amount of time that may a month, maybe 6, or more.

I also believe Taiwan costs have gone up - not entirely un reasonable that they want to have a decent standard of living too. I think the next option would be China for "cheap", but ethically/morally dubious.

RE other companies doing the Taiwan frame thing - it's cyclical, I think - prices for each manufacturer change when they start selling a new batch of frames. It just so happens to fall that Cotic are the first and most visible in this particular round of increases. I'd be expecting all the other co's to be racking up the prices when they all have new batches land - but they might not shout about it so much. It might not be quite as much as Cotic have done to get the Euro production, but it won't be far off - Cy wouldn't have made that decision if it wasn't viable.

I've just had a look at the Curtis site - £1550 for an XC9. so 30% more.

In other news, my local bakery does The. Best. pain au chocolat. Heavenly, dreamy, best pastry I've ever had. Pre Covid they were £1.50. Now they're £3.20. My pay hasn't changed at all and I can only justify them extremely rarely now, but they still sell all they can make. Moral of the story - in this day and age - good stuff, done right, costs.

Moral of the story – in this day and age – good stuff, done right, costs.

yup, I think that's about right really. Everybody (including me) has to re-evaluate the value of the pound in there pocket and where there priorities lie.

Moral of the story – in this day and age – good stuff, done right, costs.

A £3.20 cake isn't comparable to a £1200 frame. People will still buy the cake from time to time. They'll just stop buying expensive bikes full stop. As can be seen with the state of the bike industry now.

I thought the Solaris was expensive when it went up to £800 ish.
I own an older Solaris and a £1600+ Mason Raw. The Mason is made in the UK and it's design, detail and finish is several leagues better than the Cotic. The Cotics are great bikes, and probably ride as well as the Mason, but I still see them as a semi-budget bike; still made where labour is cheaper*

*Apart from the Five Land bikes of course