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Currently trying to get the spec sorted for my new bike and want to go 12 speed. I can get the new XT 12 speed however the micro spline issue limits me on hubs. If I went SRAM 12 with a mix of SX & NX I could get Hope pro4 hubs on a DT Swiss rim.
Reviews of the Shimano 12 speed seem to put it slightly ahead of the SRAM but that was comparing the XTR against equivalent SRAM kit.Also I have had shimano stuff forever and sort of know how it all goes together, I haven't experience SRAM at all.
Should I go Shimano and get the cheapest option DT Swiss wheel which is 'DT Swiss M1700 Spline 35 27.5" Boost Wheelset, Microspline Freehub' And wait for Shimano to give Hope the license? Or do I go SRAM 12 and Hope Pro4 now on the DT Swiss EX511 rim?
Who knew speccing a bike could be so stressful
Why not get a set built with 350 hubs and the rims you want? Dt Swiss sell a microspline converter for £50 if you can't get the hubs supplied with it
SX/NX isn't really XT level, for that you'd need GX, meaning an XD Freehub (though that shouldn't be an issue if buying new wheels anyway, SX/NX uses 'normal' Shimano freehub)
You could also go for XT for the mech and shifter, with a SRAM cassette to suit, thats the way to go IMO if you want XT with Hope wheels straight away, then change the free hub and cassette when it becomes available
@Slackboy - only limited options as buying a complete bike direct. So I have a selection of DT rims with the micro spline hub or the option of a range of DT runs with the Hope option if buying the SRAM version. Can’t buy without wheels it’s frame only or full build.
@tomhoward - any issues with combining the SRAM cassette with Shimano bits and pieces? Seems a good option to me.
any issues with combining the SRAM cassette with Shimano bits and pieces? Seems a good option to me.
It won't work as nicely. Go for dtswiss (or shimano) hubs and shimano everything else.
Ooops! Shimano has taken me over budget, I am starting to lose my love for them now 😂 Need to keep some cash for a dropper and nice pedals.
Drivetrain is more important than expensive pedals. Decent flat composite ones are sub £40, decent spds can be had for half that.
@tomhoward- spoilsport, I was wanting some Bergtec Penthouse pedals, never been able to have bling before. Might go for a BrandX dropper to reduce cost, and remove the Hope brakes for those new Shimano 4 pot deores, basic but functional.
Penthouse composite ones are £40...
& v v decent like the alloys just composite body.
Why not just go SunRace 12spd route?
😉👍
Ooooooh that’s a good idea, and put the metal ones on my Christmas list.
@tdog - Sunrace? If I knew nothing about SRAM I know even less about Sunrace
Sunrace so very nice 12 speed cassettes in both standard Shimano and sram options so would would with normal hope hubs or xd. They shift well are reasonably priced and often have better spacing than Shimano. Available from all good toy stores.
Why not go for a Mavic wheelset? They all come with micro spline now, from the really cheap but good crossrides all the way up to the really expensive wheelset, any Mavic id360 hub will convert to micro spline too, hope this helps
Ask at your local toys r us
It seems odd that buying a full bike either gives the option of sram nx/sx vs shimano xt. Does it not give you the option of sram gx or shimano slx (if it’s available yet in 12 speed)?
What bike are you buying / from where?
Sounds like it could be a Bird going by the wheel choices.
Sounds like it could be a Bird going by the wheel choices.
ta11pau1 wins the prize
Ask at your local toys r us
Do I take it from this you don’t rate them? I know nothing so any info you have would be helpful?
I was suspecting it could be a Bird - which model is it and what’s your budget? I like playing with their bike builder (I’ve got an Aeris 145LT).
@joebristol - It's the AM160 I am trying to keep under 3k but have crept over by a few 100. It's pretty much due to the fact I want Pikes and the middle option shock really. Am considering just swapping my reverb over from the current full suss rather than the PNW dropper I really wanted, and another sacrifice is base level Shimano brakes instead of Hope. Going to ask for Hope from Santa
Having just played around with the builder (using the Aeris AM160) it seems if you go Dt m1700 then gx Eagle with Lyriks is broadly the same cost as Xt with Lyriks. Both with the same shock - the sram setup with Guide re and the shimano with the deore level 4 pots.
Looking at the custom builder you can get an xm1501 wheelset for cheaper then Hope Pro4 / Dt XM rim. The DT Swiss 240 hub on the 1501 is better than the Hope Pro 4. So if you want to upgrade over the m1700 I’d go the 1501 wheel route.
This is what I’ve come up with using the builder and Shimano.
Middle shock and an rc2 Lyrik - I’d take that over a Like for this travel on this kind of bike. Bizarrely it’s cheaper than the Pike too.
4 pot shimano Deores level brakes but with bigger rotors.
Full chain guide and bash guard, with a Bird 150mm dropper. Believe it’s the Brand X Ascend rebranded so pretty reliable.
E1700 30 wheels - you don’t need wider than that and they’re stronger than the m1700 wheels. Either have a ratchet hub rather than the cheaper 370 pawl hubs.
£3092. You could cut off £50 losing the chainguide and a little more down sizing the discs.
Op- seriously check SunRace 12speed groupset out. Cheap too as I got it on my ti ht.
Thanks Joe, I was thinking the Pike was the highest spec and the Lyric below, did I get that wrong? TBH I liked the silver colour as well to go with the Anodised black and silver paint job. Will check out the Lyric spec again.
I meant your local shiny toy dealer.
Getit! 😉
@Joe - Looks like the Pike is the new 'Ultimate' version and the Lyric only the Select or select+ hence the cheaper price maybe
- seriously check SunRace 12speed groupset out. Cheap too as I got it on my ti ht.
Unfortunately it's not a build option so cannot do
Hi john - the Lyrik has a burliest chassis than the Pike though. It’s stiffer than the Pike (and a little heavier) and will be better at 160mm travel I’m terms of steering etc than the Pike.
I’m not sure on where Ultimate what’s better than previous models without reading all the blurb - maybe the new 2.1 charger damper vs the 2.0 version. For £100 less I’d take the Lyrik.
I’ve got a 170mm Lyrik rct3 with the new debonair airshaft on my 145LT and it’s very plush (charger 2) - I have a 140mm Pike rc (charger 1) on my hardtail. The Pike is good, but the Lyrik is definitely better.
Just to add, my Pike also has the new debonair airshaft. So vs my Lyrik the difference is the chassis stiffness and the charger 1 vs charger 2.
@Joebristol - Thanks for all this info, really appreciated. The Lyric is now in the spec and I have the EX1501 wheels. Crept in at 3190 so I will have to sell a few things around the garage to keep the bank manager happy 🙂
Now that is a nice wheelset - can’t go wrong with DT Swiss factory wheels. That’s a very strong rim on a top quality hub.
Overall that’s a great enduro bike you’re looking at getting and Bird have great customer service and communication.
Yes Joe hit nail...
DT Swiss wheels are the dogs and built very very well in terms of tolerances unlike Mavics.
And a curveball has been thrown. Work is opening another window for Cycle2Work on Aug 1st and I believe the limit has now been removed. This is either an opportunity or a curse, do I wait and risk the spec being out of stock............gahhhhhhhhhhh 🙂 Not really a big problem in the overall schemme of life is it 🙂
Sunrace so very nice 12 speed cassettes in both standard Shimano and sram options so would would with normal hope hubs or xd. They shift well are reasonably priced and often have better spacing than Shimano. Available from all good toy stores.
Actually they don't at the moment, or at least I don't think you can buy them anywhere yet.They are going to be doing an 11-51 HG+ compatible cassette which if it tests out OK we'll be offering on Shimano builds, but maybe not before your C2W window Johnjn2000.
Quick review of XT for you. Its awesome Except:
Shift onto smaller cogs is a bit agricultural, same applies to XTR. They obviously prioritised the upwards shift under load over dropping back down the cassette, although it shifts better over multi shifts on the down than 1 which is quite a common thing I guess, so not so bad.
The XT Chainring seems a bit of a fudge of ring bolted (not removable I will add) to a spider, that then locks onto the cranks. Seems a total OTT job just to avoid forging/machining a single ring. It would have been nice if they continued the MT900 cranks.
The Quick link on the chain is a total PITA to tighten, so I expect it might not be that reusable.
Aside these relatively small grips Shimano's 12 speed is very nice.
The XT Chainring seems a bit of a fudge of ring bolted (not removable I will add) to a spider, that then locks onto the cranks. Seems a total OTT job just to avoid forging/machining a single ring. It would have been nice if they continued the MT900 cranks.
I have managed to mix and match SLX and XT so it's only the cassette that is XT, wonder if that will give me the option of a removable front ring?
The ring is removable, but its a ring bolted to a spider, that then uses a lock ring to attach to the cranks. So its fully direct mount etc. as you'd expect, just seems a long winded way to avoid making a single machined ring (rather than the 11 parts of the SLX/XT ring)
The button has been pressed, but @Benpinnick you probably already know. The penny has just dropped, I am a bit slow 🙂
Exciting times ahead and many scary moments to come as the bike tries to compensate for my lack of skill
I love new bike shopping (maybe too much!).
I want to demo a few Orange soon as I've been curious for a while! Easy to get carried away...
I want to demo a few Orange soon as I’ve been curious for a while! Easy to get carried away…
I know what you mean with getting carried away. You start with a plan to be sensible and upgrade over time and then you see all the nice new shiney on offer at better prices than you could ever get it for yourself, and suddenly............hmmmmmmm cheap wheels, maybe not such a good idea after all, lets just tag on some good ones................ahhhhhh right, the well rated 2019 Lyric is only 200 more than a basic Yaris and actually less than the 2020 Pike, that makes sense then..........and so it continues 🙂 I was given a 3k budget by the boss and I have only gone over by 190 so am not feeling that bad.