[Closed] mountain bikes not welcome on MoD land

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/cycling-on-mod-land

Good discussion here.

The signs at Porridge/Tunnel etc don't say you can't ride. They actually say 'you are welcome to ride here'. They just ask that you stay away from any soldiers in the woods, turning round if need be, and don't build any new trails.

GB

It's all about giving the soldiers the space they need, respecting their need not to be dazzled at night and recognising we don't have a right to be there. That is to say we are breaking the by laws but providing we behave ourselves (not unreasonable) we should be able to continue to use the the land.

So don't dig holes, or make new trails without permission.
Don't be rude to soldiers
Do give the soldiers the space they need to do their training
If asked to leave an area it is probably because there is training going on so move off to somewhere else
Be considerate to others

Doesn't seem unreasonable!

Yeah, I've read the signs around Pirbright/ Tunnel Hills recently and they're all nicely worded and civil and pretty obvious:
- try and avoid the soldiers on exercise
- don't swear at or abuse the soldiers on exercise
- don't build jumps without prior consent/ at all

they're all nicely worded and civil and pretty obvious:

Indeed. The MOD are one of the finest landowners out there, as anyone who rides on the Plain will agree.

They may well be but it would seem that times are a changin' re: access in Surrey/Hants. Hopefully it will be a short lived focus from the powers that be.

- don't swear at or abuse the soldiers on exercise

Sealand ranges a few years ago when they had live fireing, just a low gate to climb over, so i did, got a bit down the road, and saw a landrover coming towards me at speed, couple of squaddies inside said to leave the area, as it was live firing, i asked what happens if i dont, they just pointed at their rifles and said, We shoot you.

Even when they pointed out they where joking about shooting me i thought it best to leave.

I have shared the area where I have done the majority of my riding over the last eight years or so with the Royal Marines.. never a problem.. the land is open access except for when the red flags are flying to warn of live firing..
We shared the same trails and our paths would cross at least once per week.. often more..
It's quite good fun on the rare occasions where you ride through a simulated ambush with pyrotechnics.. smoke etc..

Quite often I would get a bit of friendly banter or even a few shouts of encouragment or admiring nods of approval on particularly difficult ascents..

To be fair, if it's MOD land why the hell would you try riding there anyway?

I'm not yet so jaded that I need the added excitement of wondering whether I'll get run over by a tank/shot in the face to keep my adrenaline levels up...

Just my £0.02

internetidiot - Member

Some signs have popped up near where I ride threatening confiscation of bikes for riding away from the main pathways through the MoD land.

I don't see how they could possibly take the bikes off you legally

obviously they don't let you into the parts where there are live rounds or tanks
TJ, that's what I thought too but I'm not sure I'd get into an argument 🙂

To be fair, if it's MOD land why the hell would you try riding there anyway?

Because:

1) There are public rights if way over some of the areas in question

2) Various people have constructed some very good trails there perfectly legally with proper permission

3) XC races are held in more than one MOD owned area

4) Theres not a snowballs chance in hell of anyone being able to stop people riding there, and as long as riders have some sense and some manners there's no reason the MOD will want to anyway

To be fair, if it's MOD land why the hell would you try riding there anyway?

Because it's also open for public access.

I don't see how they could possibly take the bikes off you legally

It's in the bylaws which specifically apply to the army land in the area.

Really? I just can't see that standing up in court

TJ, me neither.

MOD.UK "http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/F7878CF7-499F-4F55-AF7E-F14D7A8D3620/0/aldershot_district_military_lands.pdf"

Large document so sorry!

Page 3, section 4, point 2.

And then Page 9, section 1, bold part.

find all this very werid here in Colchester my local loop is all on MOD land and so long as you don't stray on to certain points when red flags are flying or stray passed the red mine tape in the woods your fine in fact most of the troops round here(paras and royal horse artillery)are well into mtb's so more often than not bump into them out on there bikes.

simon, it's been perfectly fine here for as long as I've been biking (20 years).

Until now.

Pies, are you talking about land near Farnborough and Aldershot here?

Pies, page 3 talks about riding at night without lights, page 9 about the £20 fine for not obeying the rules

So bugger all, basically
Ain't never gonna happen.

All I'm saying is that the bylaws allow for confiscation of bikes (if ridden "offroad"). I hope it doesn't come to that but there is definitely a shift in attitude by the land wardens currently.

And yes, I'm talking about Caesars Camp, Ash, Tunnel Hill etc etc.

So bugger all, basically

On Page 3 you read the wrong part. It's Section 4, point 2 - prohibits bikes ridden off roads.

On page 9

Read the bit underneath the 20 pounds fine words.

"..and any vehicle, animal... or thing...may be removed....and be declared by a court to be forfeited to Her Majesty"

(paraphrased as CBA typing it all out)

I managed to ride the Bovingdon high speed armoured vehicle test track by mistake once after straying off a FP.

Luckily it was a quiet summer evening.

Cycling has already been banned on the ranges in the Purbecks, which is a real shame as it cuts off a great loop. There are no-cycling signs on all entry points, however foot access is still allowed.

I was given a telling off by the range warden for using the gravel track from Tyneham up the hill to the road, approx half a mile, despite the fact people were walking it and there were about a hundred cars in the car park at Tyneham.

We had a chat and she told me that cycling had been banned following an accident involving a cyclist who had claimed against the MOD. Whether that was local (or even true) i'm not sure, but that was her understanding of the cause.

So it can happen and has happened that they will tighten the rules.

ta for that allthepies. Slightly different from what I thought you were saying which is the wardens have the power to take them - a court can order the confiscation of them. I still don't see that as being practicable but its there in the byelaw

And once again every day is a school day on stw

Byelaws are laws, and in this case there is the jurisdiction 'to be taken into custody without warrant and brought before a court of summary jurisdiction to be dealt with according to law'

And further below on the linked document you can also read the fine has been increased to £500

I've also ridden these areas for 15 years without issue because I have always obeyed common sense or the reasonable request of the military operating on these areas. I'd be extremely surprised and very disappointed to suddenly see a change to this and be hauled off before a military court to be fined and have the bike confiscated, but that said I wouldn't argue the toss with any military / range warden if they ask me to vacate an area because I don't want to find out whether these byelaws are / can be enforced either.

Can I go off at a wee tangent here? Are there any MOD areas with public access that are seeing [b]less[/b] military usage?

I have not problems in Surrey, Hankley Elsted and Longmoor. However, some are Site of Special Scientfic Interest, follow this link:
[list] http://hampshiretrailwatch.co.uk/cycling-on-mod-land-in-north-hampshiresurrey-border/ [/list] 😕

c_g, you'll be lucky to find anywhere with LESS use as people are brought back from Germany. On the other hand, 17000 of us are about to be made redundant so maybe that will reduce the numbers on exercise, the reduction in all but operationally focussed and pre-deployment exercises to save money might also make a difference, as will reducing the TA's training opportunities...

Well think the young teenager whose motorbike was taken off him by a whole platoon on Frith hill on Saturday found out the hard way about property being confiscated. Lots of watch out for Evil Kaniviel bannter as we rode past.

davetrave - ah OK, didn't realise about Germany. I'm trying to see the big picture ie less troops so does that mean some MOD land will become redundant?

anjs - blimey. 😯

c_g - bringing troops back from Germany will make a big difference. Less of them exercising over there and some 20 000 posts no longer based overseas will balance out the 'less troops' thing in the UK. So - probably no reduction in the use of MoD land and, if the tempo remains as high, probably more use for a bit longer yet.

Just be sensible on MOD Land and don't take the P**s, its not so much the "roaming" MTBer that is the problem, it's the chaps that dig great big holes for jumps and cut down loads of trees on SSSI, that is the Major and overiding problem. Fact!

Along with occasional disrupition to training at night (lights) and riding through harbour areas etc.

MOD Home Counties are seriously thinking of a ban for all MTB activities including racing!

We need to help ourselves out here if we want to keep riding on MOD Land! Cheers.

I'm referring to Caesars camp mainly. Having reread it, the main requirement is to stick to 'established trails' so thats ok with me, as I love some of teh cheeky bits in the woods.

I ride here as its on my doorstep and is quite pleasant. Ta for the replies people 🙂

'established trails'

I don't think they mean established mtb trails!

I was told by a local green-laner (obligatory Series 1 Landrover Defender-style too!), that Ash Ranges has the highest amount of mislaid old explosives of all the MoD ranges.

He also claimed he got shot in the head by an old rifle round. Apparently he disturbed an old ammo dump while doing his green-laning and the explosive had denatured to pure nitroglycerine so somewhat unstable. The resultant disturbance caused a round to be discharged which hit him in the head. Although it didn't do any damage because it wasn't chambered!

Probably urban/suburban myth, but there is some truth in sticking to established trails. Most of the MTB trails around Ash Ranges have been established for a good few years anyway.

estalished mtb trails may be safer as if their had been any uxb then hopefully someone would have tripped them by now, but I don't think established mtb trails count for a defense if they want to confiscate your mtb.

[url= http://http://trailactiongroup.co.uk/ ]TAG[/url] is here to help.

Cap'n - that linky doesn't work.

"..and any vehicle, animal... or thing...may be removed....and be declared by a court to be forfeited to Her Majesty"

So, monarchs taking stuff off ordinary people by force. Nothing changes.... 🙁

Thanks Pants.

www.trailactiongroup.co.uk

The CoC on there looks basically the same as on the notices and is wholly reasonable and appropriate to my eyes. Have sent email to register my support.

By 'established' trails; I assume this means the old AYTE/Gorrick stuff for example is fair game? I hope so, as I was only remarking how useless I am at downhill off camber switchback stuff on Pants Way Round yesterday 😉 Maybe with a few expletives added.....

"..and any vehicle, animal... or thing...may be removed....and be declared by a court to be forfeited to Her Majesty"

Looks more like the courts taking things off the people by force, rather than the monarch, and then gifting the items to Her Maj...

Hi lads,

I am in the Army and at present based in Pirbright, I also like to bike.In the last year I have seen more and more bikers out on the tracks around the camp. But where it’s going wrong from what I have seen is cars (with bike racks) blocking the gates on to the area, also one day I had 30 recruits in their holes in the ground when 2 lads came down a track and I went to say, "can you go around as we are working in the wood block",I was told to pee off as they was on a set out track and had the right of way. Now this got my Boss (also a biker) so angry he reported back up.

Also one night we were out on an ambush with trip flares out and I saw some riders coming down a track with lots of lights, so I went to let them know what was going on and ask can they stay away because of the danger, but the bloke did not stop and told me he would be fine and on he went and set them off!

Now ATC pirbright is the largest Phase 1 training establishment within the army so it will always have lots of activity up on the area. I know the range warden (The man that looks after the area and all things green and woody) has seen a lot of new tracks being made at the minute which he is not too happy with and we NEED to keep him happy at all times.

Also some bikers were found in the RDA (range danger area) the bit that has a big fence all around where all the bullets go when they are shot. So not good at all.
Now this is just what I have seen and I have heard of lots more incidents with bikes. This is not a whinge from me at all, it’s just I can see both sides of the argument and thought I would put my 2p in.

simon.