[Closed] Mild 'cycling on the road' rant!!

welcome to the world of road riding.
You're in one piece - what's the problem?

I rarely (if ever) have any issues on the roads - either out of town or in town. However, it sounds like your two mini-roundabout issues might have been prevented by adopting a different position on the road. Too many cyclists are prepared to ride almost in the gutter. This invites overtaking when inappropriate. Ride further out. Make those vehicles [i]really[/i] commit to overtaking on the other side of the road. This is especially important when approaching junctions, traffic islands etc.

i ride to work every day and it's a good day if there's only one near miss in each direction 😆

Do you not find that you notice the same number of idiots when you're behind the wheel of a car, rather than on a bike?

yes that is slightly more incedents than normal, but you get one every ride normally, but to get a few more like you had is not to unusual

you have to either own the road and ride fast and with authority and purpose

or be prepared to be some one else's play thing

it really sucks on british roads.

There is no point getting wound up about it. I count every day I get to work in one piece as a good ride.

I'm on a main road approaching a side road on the other side of the road and there's a bloke in a car waiting to turn out of it, onto the same side of the carriageway as me. He's not been waiting there long, but obviously decides he can't wait for me to pass, so at the first small gap in the traffic he pulls out...

I had one similar to this except he was pulling out from my side to head in the direction I was coming from. He was obviously in a hurry and forgot to look the other way as he raced out across me - straight into the side of a another car.

This morning I got left hooked 🙁

rode 85 miles yesterday and developed a severe hatred of all pensioners and women during the morning and then all trucks, vans and reps during the late afternoon.

Pensioners - pass too close as their perception of 'safety' is to make sure they are safe themselves without respect for other road users. Also have a habit of pulling out whilst they are half way past you and staying pulled out until a good 100m clear of the bike.

Women - same as pensioners except they seem to have little concept of the actual physical bounds of their vehicle and it's relationship to moving/static objects.

Trucks - just bigger than everything else and therefore invincible (I know, I've driven them).

Reps/business types in late plate shiny executive cars - Consider themselves to have more of a right to the road than any other vehicle on it. THEY have important meetings to get to and must therefore drive in a manner befitting someone of such importance so they can overtake when inappropriate and generally behave like idiots

and breath......

Had the same things happen to me. Went for a training ride down the canal towpath, did 17miles then came back via the A6, what a mistake!! I saw 2 crashes an some shocking overtaking! Got to a major motorway junction where a nice Twunt pulled out in front of me, whilst I was going 23mph then he pulled into the kerb to block me off, His windows were down so I reminded him that he was a twunt an then got in front were he rather sheepishly stayed a good distance behind. Next junction the same thing happened!!!!!! with a different car! I'm staying off the roads form now on.

What Druidh says
If the road is too narrow for vehicles to overtake safely get out into the road so they can't. Make obvious eye contact with the driver - stare right at them. Shout at them to alert tehm to your prescence. Sit up and stick your elbows out to look wider and if a vehicle pulls in while still alongside slap the side of it with the flat of your hand - it does no damage but makes one heck of a noise. Often makes them move away from you again. If the vehicle is close enough you can touch it it is too close.

When I am being overtaken I move out slightly before they overtake so if they come too close I have room to move in again.

Make sure you have an escape route at all times.

Defensive riding - ride as if everyone is out to kill you and are going to do the most stupid thing possible - that way you are never disappointed.

Above all else don't get wound up - don't let it spoil your day and if possible make sure it spoils their day more than yours. A nice cheery wave as you overtake them in the next jam, a interesting line in insults (thrombus) being my favorite

I agree on the ride defensively option - give yourself room, as you can guarantee drivers won't unless you force them to. Especially when approaching traffic islands - get bang central in the carriageway so that even a motorbike would struggle to get by.

Also - do like you have done, report offenders, especially ones stupid enough to have the company name on their vehicle!

Do we think this recently speculated penalty for drivers who pass too close to cyclists will make any difference?

i agree with the defensive riding techniques on minor roads but on roads where vehicle speeds are 60mph+ then it is too dangerous in my view, if a car decides to barge past at 30mph then it's not too bad but at 60 or 56 for a big truck then the risks are too high.

Machine guns

that's the answer

While I do remember a few incidents from my old giant commute into Liverpool, they were odd-ones-out. A large percentage of that was on the cycle path though. I've not commuted enough in Glasgow to be sure but here seems a lot scarier on the bike - far more argybargy on the roads and impatience, though lower driving speed on average for a given road. Back in liverpool the roads I rode were mainly 30 and 40s and were generally taken at about 40 by most traffic, here they're still 30s but people seem to rarely get above 30.

While I probably shouldnt and no doubt will learn the hard way at some point, I quite enjoy the on-road argy bargy and spotting people doing stupid things. I find it relieves stress more than builds it.

own the road. Or get owned by other road users.

Yep, I try to ride defensively for the most part and there were some sharp, blind corners in on area where I moved right out and did the whole sticky-out elbows thing, as people were passing on wrong side of road, but had no way of seeing what was approaching.

The most annoying bit was the kids chucking food at me. They only did it as they knew they could get away. There is a level crossing not that far ahead so I sped up, praying it would be down - but sods law, it wasn't.

The bloke at the bus company sounded sincerely apologetic and I had the reg # of the bus. He recognised it straight away.

I used to cycle from Wembley to Hayes in London so used to be well versed in the daily numpties - perhaps I just need some practice.

Whereabouts near Peterborough are you from Stumpy? I used to cycle into Stamford along the A15 (or is it A16.) I gave it up in the end after having far too many close shaves including a broken collar bone. Always used to get bombarded with crap thrown by some of the college buses.

As with TJ and druidh, I ride about 20 miles a day, in and put of central London and do road rides at the weekends. I simply do not get near misses or feel threatened very often. I reckon I have one slightly alarming incident every couple of months.

It's odd, really. I ride rpedominantly on the roads these days, and have either come to expect idiocy much more, or am desensitised to it.

I would echo others that - where sensible - you ride defensively. Most people don't actually want to hit anyone (cyclists included) and so their driving isn't willfully dangerous, *just* negligent. Therefore, I like to help them, but doing the thinking for them - when approaching "pinch" points, make sure you're in their way early enough that they can't "just squeeze through".

It's much harder on fast roads, which is why I tend to avoid riding on roads where drivers can easily hit 60+. Living in Manchester, my urban riding is often at a higher average speed than the vehicles, and riding in teh Peaks or north of Manchester is usually on roads where they have to take some care anyway.

The book that's usually recommended is Cyclecraft. Not read it myself, though I ought to. I gather it's the bible for defensive cycling.

For me, though, it's a case of assuming the worst possible scenario in each given situation, and adapting my behaviour accordingly. I used to get wound uop - essentially as a point of principle - but then actively took a decision to be more relaxed about it. Consequently, my rides are much less stressful.

Good on you, though, for reporting the sh*tty driving. More of us need to do that.

Big dummy - I get incidents more or less every ride - but I do ride thru traffic in full on courier mode so a good part of it is my fault. I appear in car drivers view in places where they are not expecting a bike and I do it very quickly. I must make a vid of lothian rd/ queen street / leith street / leith walk in rush hour

Silverpigeon - I live in Market Deeping.

Yesterday I went from there to Bourne (A15), then through Rhyall to Stamford (A6121 or something) and then from Stamford back to Deeping on the back road that goes through Barnack-Bainton-Helpston.
I do sometimes though do a shorter route to Stamford on the A16.

I used to find that I had less aggro riding in London to be honest. I think people are probably more alert and speeds are lower.
Most of the roads I was on are fairly standard A roads where 60mph is no problem.
I think as well it's getting used to it again. In the last few months I have probably only ridden on the road 10 times and it's always been at night when the roads are quieter.

EDIT - another thing that I found amazing was some people would overtake me on the approach to busy roundabouts (in Stamford) and then pull right over to block the nearside of the road so I couldn't get past them in the queue (of perhaps 20 cars) waiting at the roundabout. So I just went down their outside.

TJ in "riding like a Somali pirate" shocker..!

Do you wear a SimonRalli style bandana when doing so?

Too many cyclists are prepared to ride almost in the gutter. This invites overtaking when inappropriate. Ride further out. Make those vehicles really commit to overtaking on the other side of the road. This is especially important when approaching junctions, traffic islands etc.

Spot on. I see this all the time.

At the end of the day, most drivers are fine but there's a sizeable enough minority who simply dislike sharing the road with cyclists (or anyone else) and refuse to grant a safe passing distance. By taking up more of the road you frustrate these people, which has its own dangers but reduces the risk of an idiotic overtaking move.

Yobbishness (the kids throwing stuff) is not worth getting worked up about. You are a better person for not rising to it. In the last fortnight, I've been spat at by a pedestrian and had another moron run out at me as if to launch some kind of flying kick, only to be restrained by his companion. It puzzles me why people would do this sort of thing to me when I'm cycling but wouldn't if I was walking towards them on the pavement.

stumpy01 - Member

EDIT - another thing that I found amazing was some people would overtake me on the approach to busy roundabouts (in Stamford) and then pull right over to block the nearside of the road so I couldn't get past them in the queue (of perhaps 20 cars) waiting at the roundabout. So I just went down their outside.

You're not supposed to overtake on the inside anyway.

You're not supposed to overtake on the inside anyway.

Er, this sort of overtaking - filtering - is permitted. Just need to do it safely 9thinking about opening doors).

Overtaking on the inside is permissible in stationary or slow moving traffic - or on one way streets. Check the highway code

This invites overtaking when inappropriate

Shout at them to alert tehm to your prescence.

You guy don't know how lucky you are in UK.

juan - Member

> This invites overtaking when inappropriate

Yes but here failure to do so invites agresive comment shooting and being called a "bad cyclist"

Which means they've actually seen you. I call that a win.

They're probably just not driving fast enough, so they're bored. If they were speeding, they be much more likely to overtake sensibly.

😉

I reckon I have one slightly alarming incident every couple of months.

Just been on the phone for an hour and a half with our lawyers reviewing a contract I've been asked to sign [sigh]

druidh - Member

You're not supposed to overtake on the inside anyway.

TandemJeremy - Member

Overtaking on the inside is permissible in stationary or slow moving traffic - or on one way streets. Check the highway code

TandemJeremy - Member

Big dummy - I get incidents more or less every ride - I appear in car drivers view in places where they are not expecting a bike and I do it very quickly.

I'll let you draw your own conclusion...

They're probably just not driving fast enough, so they're bored. If they were speeding, they be much more likely to overtake sensibly.

😆 Well they would clear you faster, but im not sure it applies to low-speed zones like residential areas.

TandemJeremy - Member
Overtaking on the inside is permissible in stationary or slow moving traffic - or on one way streets. Check the highway code

I never over take on the inside if i can help it unless a car is turning right as people never look down their inside ( i know i don't check as much as i should). I find i have the least amount of close calls when i have the trailer on the back as it is wider than me by some margen. I also use my helmet cam on all my commutes and would happily send any fotage to a company of it is one of theirs and i am building up a set of clips of usless driving.
The one thing that does the most to scare me is when people decied half way through overtacking that thye can't make it and are just going to pull in. There is no way that they would do that to a car/lorry/tractor etc..

There is no way that they would do that to a car/lorry/tractor etc..

Oh trust me they do, ive had it a few times now. They usually swear at you too for not braking so they can get in.

Stumpy - you highlight why I stay off the roads as much as possible around here. If you are going to live in the wilds of Deeping you'll get scared by the yokels and retired far more often. Stamford is also full of bikeproof pedestrians who will always step out.

Stay off the roads!

Druidh - I just went to check - the wording is changed from how it used to be. I am sure it used to say "you may only overtake on the left in slow moving or stationary traffic" or similar

It now says
"# only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
# stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left

If I am riding like a nutter in traffic and a car cuts me up because I have appeared quickly in a spot where they could not reasonably have expected them to do I fully accept its my fault. I always assume no one has seen me anyway

TJ - so that re-wording looks like you technically cant as theres no lane up the left, yet at ASL lines there is clearly a marking to allow cyclists up the inside and to the front. Very unclear.

coffeeking - Member

TJ - so that re-wording looks like you technically cant as theres no lane up the left, yet at ASL lines there is clearly a marking to allow cyclists up the inside and to the front. Very unclear.

This anomaly has been frequently raised.

10+ years of commuting here.

I think that around year 7 you reach a state of detachment where nothing any driver can do will surprise you. Only the worthy can expect to achieve this state.

TJ - that [i]almost[/i] reads like I was right and you were wrong. I'll get my specs on and have another look.... 😉

Only 'cos they changed the rules

Update*

Found this
"According to CTC's Roger Geffen, there used to be an element of doubt about whether or not lane splitting was contrary to the UK Highway Code and hence whether cyclists who did it could potentially be prosecuted for a general offence such as “careless” or “inconsiderate” cycling. But this has now been cleared up in the latest version of the Highway Code.

The old Highway Code (1998 version) had two rules which, in different ways, told drivers not to change lanes to overtake on the left. The old Rule 129 (which was about driving in slow-moving traffic) said:

129. You should

• […]

• not change lanes to the left to overtake
And old rule 139 (which was about overtaking) said:
139. Overtake only when it is safe to do so. You should

• […]

• only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so

• stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left
The problem was that it was never really clear how this last bullet-point applied to a cyclist. The traffic on his/her right might be moving more slowly, but the cyclist him/herself wouldn’t be moving slowly in a queue, nor was there a lane that they should stay in (unless there was a marked cycle lane).

The new Highway Code has cleared up the uncertainty. Old rule 129 has been replaced by new rule 151, which has a new bullet-point on the end:
151 In slow-moving traffic. You should

• […]

• be aware of cyclists and motorcyclists who may be passing on either side
So cyclists and motorcyclists overtaking slow-moving traffic on either the left or the right can now say that this is sanctioned by the Highway Code, as it alerts drivers to both possibilities. "

From http://www.bikeforall.net/content/cycling_and_the_law.php

Still not 100% clear tho

National cycling training stuff has a section on how to filter safely but I can find no definition

What Druidh says
If the road is too narrow for vehicles to overtake safely get out into the road so they can't. Make obvious eye contact with the driver - stare right at them. Shout at them to alert tehm to your prescence. Sit up and stick your elbows out to look wider and if a vehicle pulls in while still alongside slap the side of it with the flat of your hand - it does no damage but makes one heck of a noise. Often makes them move away from you again. If the vehicle is close enough you can touch it it is too close.

When I am being overtaken I move out slightly before they overtake so if they come too close I have room to move in again.

Make sure you have an escape route at all times.

Defensive riding - ride as if everyone is out to kill you and are going to do the most stupid thing possible - that way you are never disappointed.

Above all else don't get wound up - don't let it spoil your day and if possible make sure it spoils their day more than yours. A nice cheery wave as you overtake them in the next jam, a interesting line in insults (thrombus) being my favorite

Really good advice but unfortunately nothing there prepares you for some of Bristol's finest Bus drivers.

I needed to turn right into mud dock, turned, bus about 50 yards back, signalled and started to slow in the middle of the road, looked back again and saw the female bus driver waving her fist and heard the bus accelerate, with about 20 yards to impact I gestured and mouthed 'slow the **** down' - still accelerating and gesturing back. I ended up dropping the bike to the ground and dragging it along the ground as I ran to the pavement to get clear of this psycho!

Jesus!

I have always thought that it was OK to slowly filter on the inside of traffic that is stationary. I always lookout for people who are either going to turn left, or move into my path.
At the roundabout in question there was about 20 cars waiting to join the roundabout, with perhaps 1 car every 10 secs actually joining.
When i filter up the inside, I always stop a couple of cars back from the roundabout/traffic lights etc. in case the situation changes and the cars at the front need to move and wish to turn left.

tootall, this area does seem to be full of 'special' people!

stuf defensive cycling, go for offensive cycling!

stick to the outer third of the lane untill your up to speed, then pull back over, stops car drivers buyylying their way past as you pull away from lights. Same applies between closely spaced roundabouts/junctions. If your in the middle of the road theres no chance of them running you over without seeing you first.

And if someone does something stupid follow them, best aerobic workout is chaseing down some school run idiot who just couldnt wait for you to get past before she pulled out of the rugby club gates mid way between picking up johny from his game and dropping jemmima at her piano lesson.