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Plain and simple the cyclist was in the wrong...... 🙄
"Entitlement"
He wasn't entitled to that bit of the road, he wasn't entitled to move out either. The obvious answer was to drive behind the cyclist until it was safe to overtake.
As for the cyclist being invisible, I don't buy that, the cyclist was visible to the driver, visible enough for the drive to deliberately cut him up.
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I0.WP.COM I'm surprised about how anti-cyclist a cycling forum can be!
Obviously the cyclists are in the wrong. But the truck driver can see that they are around him and should adjust his driving to suit. He shouldn't have just kept plowing forward when he's surrounded by a flock of crazy cyclists.
Nice photo of a LHD truck.
I think the reformed bit should be removed from your title. The cyclists were in a left only lane. You seem to be the only one defending the cyclists behaviour. Does that not tell you something? I've lost family through bad driving, so tend to take a very dim view of it. This case, feel sorry for the driver
Turn the tables Edukator.
If it was a cyclist taking primary in the middle lane, and a car in the left hand turn lane cut him up, would that be acceptable, since the cyclist can clearly see the car on his left....?
. It's time cyclists lost their feeling or moral superiority and began to consider themselves road users subject to the same rules as drivers.
"cyclists"? Who are you talking about?
The obvious answer was to drive behind the cyclist until it was safe to overtake.
I agree. He could have simply reversed his HGV back along the road so that the cyclist that started behind him was in front of him.
I'm with edukator. The penalty for being a self-entitled idiot shouldn't be death. And I think the lorry driver deliberately closed the door on the cyclists because he was unhappy about their undertaking using the left turn lane.
At that junction there is an "area" for cyclists to stop in, in front of cars and trucks. The truck is stopped in that area so there is no where for the cyclists to go. Driver is at fault at the start as he stopped beyond the stop line for cars. At that very intersection a few years back they had coppers giving drivers fines for stopping in the cyclist area. I wouldn't be stopping next to a big truck like that - seen way to many near misses. Remember trucks are bigger than you and normally win! Either way he is a lucky man!
I'm surprised about how anti-cyclist a cycling forum can be!Obviously the cyclists are in the wrong
😆
I'm surprised about how anti-cyclist a cycling forum can be!
Me too, and how car threads focus on performance, "making progress", thrashing along B roads, how many speding tickets people have picked up and how to protest, driving awareness courses... .
I haven't ridden in London for years but rode around Birmingham a few years back. I felt more targetted than in Paris and Paris is model for anti-social use of motor vehicles. The difference bing that in Paris drivers are inconsiderate and in Birmingham actually hostile.
Paris, the section around 3:30 is expecially depressing:
At that junction there is an "area" for cyclists to stop in, in front of cars and trucks. The truck is stopped in that area so there is no where for the cyclists to go. Driver is at fault at the start as he stopped beyond the stop line for cars. At that very intersection a few years back they had coppers giving drivers fines for stopping in the cyclist area. I wouldn't be stopping next to a big truck like that - seen way to many near misses. Remember trucks are bigger than you and normally win! Either way he is a lucky man!
Are you talking about an ASL? In which case there is not one at that junction. You could argue that there should be.
but in his haste the truck driver decided to cut the corner
I don't see any corner
Vehicles with 'blindspots' shouldnt be on the road
That said, having ridden around several European cities including London my concern in the UK is not of an accidental incident but someone purposely harming me.
The UK appears to have a larger proportion of ****s than most countries.
Cyclist is a complete bellend there. Plain and simple.
Vehicles with 'blindspots' shouldnt be on the road.
I don't know about you but my vision directly behind me when riding a bike is not tip top. It's certainly impeded what with me not having eyes in the back of my head and having to sit up and physically turn around. Does that count? Never driven a car without a blind spot either, though clearly not as large as the one on an HGV (or my bike).
You can turn your head though cant you and my car doesnt have a blind spot that makes it dangerous.
We repeatedly hear about trucks blindspots, that could easily be fixed but isnt.
Vehicles with 'blindspots' shouldnt be on the road.
You may well be right but everyone knows that right now they are on the road, everyone knows that HGV's have mahoosive blind spots and everyone knows that cyclists cutting up the left hand side regularly get squashed to death. So, whilst this is still the case, cyclists shouldn't play Russian roulette with 40 tonne head squashing machines*
*unless of course if they have a camera, we all know that in these cases different rules apply as you can get all angry and shout out number plates, and that stops you dying.
The cyclist should be up for a Darwin Award, that's some terrible riding 😯
He put himself at risk and the livehood/freedom of the lorry driver in jeopardy by being a dick.
I bet the video wouldn't have surfaced if the outcome had been more serious as it would have shown the cyclist to be in the wrong.
This is why its best to jump red lights, that way the driver can see you.
the red cyclist was in front of the truck coming across the junction.
cyclist made a bad judgement and came a cropper for it.
The Driver was clearly fed up with traffic and making bad judgements also.
If I was driving a lorry and I knew cyclists had just gone ahead of me I would be looking for the rest and leaving space by the kerb.
TFL need to be addressing this junction, No cycle wait area, no cycle lane. why ?
At that very intersection a few years back they had coppers giving drivers fines for stopping in the cyclist area.
Not sure which video you've watched, but the one linked from OP seems to clearly show that there is no ASL there. And I'm slightly sceptical about the other bit too - I think either the Guardian or the Times a couple of years ago tried to get information on prosecutions / enforcement of ASLs nationally and failed to find any evidence that anyone had been done for it, anywhere, ever. It would be great if there had been some enforcement though, so I genuinely hope you are right (although you can't be about this junction, since the ASL isn't there).
As to the question of should there be one there? IMHO perhaps, but with 2 caveats - one directly related to the above. ASLs are a good idea in theory if done properly but in my opinion and experience they don't actually work because:
1) Everyone knows they aren't enforced and a significant number of drivers ignore them and pull up to the second line as though the ASL doesn't exist. I've seen plenty of pictures on social media of police vehicles doing it.
2) The idea of them originally is that you couple the road paint with reprogrammed light sequencing that gives the cyclists a head start on the motorised traffic. But since we only get the paint the actual results are:
- cyclists very briefly accelerate faster, then the motorists catch up, usually right in the middle of the junction
- red light jumping is, imho, encouraged by this setup as riders try to compensate for the lack of a head start on the sequence by creating their own.
Unless these two issues are sorted out, I think ASLs are potentially more dangerous than not having them.
Edukator, it is most definitely not two lanes into one over the junction. The left lane is turning left.
Actually it is 3 lanes: 1 left, 2 straight on merging to 1.
Left hand lane is always empty, so that's where cyclists naturally filter to, but you have to know you're in the wrong lane and either get away quickly or hang back and let the traffic sort it self out.
At that junction there is an "area" for cyclists to stop in, in front of cars and trucks
No there isn't.
It is, hands down, the worst junction on my commute along the Embankment (and I have to go through Parliament square). It needs an advanced stop zone sooner rather than later.
IMO, cyclist made a mistake - thankfully one that didn't end up with him under the wheels.
It's very rare I'll say this, but the lorry driver did nothing wrong and those cyclists were insane. The driver saw lots of cyclists in the left turn lane, he rightly assumed they'd be turning left.
Arguments about visibility etc are all important, and there's a debate to be had about whether lorries like that should be on busy city streets, but that's not the lorry driver's fault.
In all the discussion about trucks' blindspots I think it's also important to note that the cyclist appears to have created themselves a massive, potentially lethal blindspot by not turning their head at any point and checking what is around them. Not sure what excuse there can be for that - I suppose "everyone does it" will have to do for that as well?
1) Everyone knows they aren't enforced and a significant number of drivers ignore them and pull up to the second line as though the ASL doesn't exist. I've seen plenty of pictures on social media of police vehicles doing it.
IME in London, they are fairly well observed.
Everyone does it......everyone does it.....
What a dickhead.
No idea what those cyclists were thinking; I bet they thought they'd be able to undertake the lorry off the lights, but because there were so many of them, it only worked for the ones at the front.
The person in the white t-shirt with yellow helmet did the sensible thing; realised she (I think it's a woman) was gonna run out of room, so hung back.....
Feel sorry for the lorry driver, in this instance.
sl2000 - Member
I'm with edukator. The penalty for being a self-entitled idiot shouldn't be death. And I think the lorry driver deliberately closed the door on the cyclists because he was unhappy about their undertaking using the left turn lane.
This.
Yes cyclists are being dicks. HGV driver on the other hand is being more of a dick, obviously trying to close the door on cyclists to his left, which already indicates he knew they were there, and so deliberately caused a collision.
Seriously another 10 yards steering in that direction and he would have been on the pavement. HGV driver (possibly cyclist too) should be in court.
Driver wasn't steering anywhere, his wheels were straight.
Cyclist on the other hand seemed to lean over to the right, but thats okay as he really did prove his point didn't he!
Everyone does it
Crikey! This from a grown up.
Cyclists in London.. nothing new. You see d*ck moves being pulled all the time.
franksinatra - Member
Driver wasn't steering anywhere, his wheels were straight.Cyclist on the other hand seemed to lean over to the right, but thats okay as he really did prove his point didn't he!
Yeah, straight steering directly towards the pavement 🙄
Seriously another 10 years steering in that direction and he would have been on the kerb.
It's 2 lanes into 1, there was nowhere for the lorry driver to go and there is absolutely no movement to his left.
The cyclist should not have put himself in that position.
I can't see how a couple of people are defending the cyclist here. Do you have some special glasses to allow you to see things that aren't there?
Want to buy that driver a drink, poor guy.
For factual accuracy - It most definitely is. 3 lanes - first lane left only, 2nd straight ahead, third right and straight on.
Well fair enough I didn't see the right lane but that only makes it worse - the lorry would have had more reason to be concerned about vehicles merging from the right, not the left!
The only safe way to undertake there - and TBH it's probably what I would have tried to do - is to get well ahead of the lorry at the junction, i.e. sit well in front of it at the lights (which is of course illegal). With other cyclists already blocking the way there was no way for the later arrivals to do that, so they should have held back instead.
Yes cyclists are being dicks. HGV driver on the other hand is being more of a dick, obviously trying to close the door on cyclists to his left, which already indicates he knew they were there, and so deliberately caused a collision.
Irrespective of the argument one way or another with this I find it fascinating that adults with experience can see the same clip and view it in such different ways. Without malice or intent you see this as a deliberate act by the driver to endanger the cyclist - others (inc me) just don't see that so we are genuinely seeing what we are seeing. I don't think any of us come to this with so much of an agenda so be blinded. Who'd be convicted by a jury of your peers.
There's three solutions there. A) Jump the red light B) Pull right out in front of the lorry towards the yellow box so the driver can see you (and make sure you clip in first time 😆 ) or C) Hang back and let the lorry go first. Or rather 'stay in the correct lane!'
Instead, they chose to act like brainless Lemmings.
I love how the guy with the camera is so proud he 'got it all on camera mate' despite the fact it just serves to prove what a d**k the cyclist was!
Everyone goes on about drivers having to start out on a bicycle. Perhaps cyclist should spend a mandatory day in a lorry??
Yeah, straight steering directly towards the pavement
He's not steering to the pavement, he is driving a massive truck which is only a few inches narrower than the lane he is driving in, of course he is going to be near the kerb when he arrives through the junction.
cyclist fault absolutley.
however i do think that our cycle lane up the inside of traffic and ASL infrastructure conditions cyclists to ride like this.
wouldn't happen in The Hague.
You just know that video is going to end up on the Daily Mail or London Evening Standard website with a "WHO'S TO BLAME?"" headline and then a million comments underneath about road tax and insurance.
If only they'd have junped the lights there'd be no problem! 😉
Maybe dispense with mirrors completely and replace with monitors
This is very much a thing, and can be expected to be rolled out fairly widely in the near future.
Not only does it offer much better visibility and safety, it provides truck operators with a significant boost to fuel efficiency.
STONERIDGE.COM I'm with edukator. The penalty for being a self-entitled idiot shouldn't be death. And I think the lorry driver deliberately closed the door on the cyclists because he was unhappy about their undertaking using the left turn lane.
I don't agree. They sat in the left turn lane as if somehow it was a filter lane for bikes then were surprised that traffic going straight on didn't give them room. If the cyclist had been a car, everyone would be saying "What an idiot" but because he's a squishy bike rider it's somehow now the fault of the lorry driver.
Could he have predicted SOME of the riders would continue ahead, even those he couldn't see, yes possibly but how do you calculate that "risk" of unseen events happening? He saw some riders (but not all) in a left lane and saw some zoom ahead. Should he sit there stationary at a junction on the off-chance someone wants to go against the road markings? How would anyone ever get anywhere?
The problem here is some riders want to preach about sharing the road (which is absolutely right) whilst simultaneously somehow expecting other road users to give them allowances that would seem unreasonable for any other form of transport. Yes there is responsibility if you're driving a bigger vehicle but likewise, as a squishy road user, you also have some responsibility to not do dumb shit. The other day on a ride I reached a junction with an advanced stop but there was a bus in it already. The "cost" to me of waiting was about 10s on the ride, the cost to me of sneaking down the side where he couldn't see me and trying to beat him across the junction could have been a crash that I wasn't going to come off best in.
Everyone has a part to play in both road safety and the movement of traffic in cities. This rider (and his cohorts) haven't helped at all. That said, TfL know that's a major bike commuting route and it's shocking how poor the junctions are.
Already on the Daily Fail, with a headline that bears no resemblance to the reality.
I think people who click Fail headlines (I did it purely for research m'Lud) are those who in another era sat knitting next to the guillotine.
franksinatra - MemberYou may well be right but everyone knows that right now they are on the road, everyone knows that HGV's have mahoosive blind spots and everyone knows that cyclists cutting up the left hand side regularly get squashed to death.
I don't think everyone knows that, not by a long way. It's basically unintuitive- people reasonably assume that other vehicles on the road and especially in cities are basically safe. You and I know they have huge blind spots (and that even in the areas that can be seen, they have a lot of perimeter to check) But they are fundamentally dangerous, and people don't expect that.
as a squishy road user, you also have some responsibility to not do dumb shit
and there endeth the lesson
The only safe way to undertake there - and TBH it's probably what I would have tried to do - is to get well ahead of the lorry at the junction, i.e. sit well in front of it at the lights (which is of course illegal).
Or do as I'd do, not undertake at all just stay back behind the lorry. There's no law that says cyclist's "have" to filter to the front at every junction.