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ride what you have. 5 tens help but any flat soled trainer will do in the dry.
as above I have to lower my saddle an inch when i use flats rather than clips
you`ll get used to your feet being in a different place on teh pedal.
i find stiff soled flat shoes (adidas terrex/510 impact style) feel wierd and i cant ride properly. i cant feel the pedal and I cant tell if my foot is on properly. think its because they feel a bit like my clip shoes and my brain assumes i'm attached when i'm not. its very odd - that said I cut my teeth riding in vans so a flexy sole feels nicer and more what i`m used to - i can feel the pedal and the grip.
I jumped from SPDs to Flats in the spring and hated it for about 3 or 4 weeks until everything clicked, now I wish I had done it sooner!
I have the Ride Concepts Hellion Elite shoes and I have used DMR Vaults (unreliable due to bushings creeping out of the bodies) and HT PA03A pedals. The HTs have about 95% of the grip the DMRs do, which i think is probably a good thing, I certainly don't want for grip.
Kelvin is right though the axle under midfoot, heels down, "heavy feet light hands" is the most important thing in this whole thread.
You might have "fun" (re)learning to bunny hop...if so this really helped me:
With flats, the pedal provides the stiffness. You don't need a stiff shoe. Stay away from too much sole thickness though.
Was SPDS from 1992-2011. Flats for preference since. Nukeproof and 5.10s for me.
With flats, the pedal provides the stiffness. You don’t need a stiff shoe
Not in my experience. I used to ride in skate shoes, the feel and control was amazing but it was much harder work. 5 10s are a trade-off, at least mine are. Don't ask me what model they are.
Shimano GR9 (Michelin soles)
This is a good all-rounder and would be a sensible choice for starting with flats again.
You could always get some Freerider Pros as your second pair of shoes later on. I have both myself and the 5:10s are better but probably more expensive.
Or treat yourself and just go straight to Freerider Pros, the normal not the Primeblue version (which has an inferior rubber compound).
Maybe try some plastic pedals for starters? I dunno what's hot ATM - maybe Nukeproof?
If a pedal is too grippy for you try taking some pins out. A former big hitter I sometimes ride with only uses 4 pins per side. I always suggest getting used to flats on smooth trails like a pumptrack. That way you can find the best position and fiddle about without worrying about losing grip. And you don't solely ride with your heels down, try riding a pumptrack like that.
heels down, “heavy feet light hands” is the most important thing in this whole thread.
Advice applies equally to people using SPDs.
It's always an interesting debate this one, and I wonder how useful the change (from SPD to flats and vice versa) actually is. Don't think I'm having a go, or I'm sat on my high horse as I'm as guilty as the next man, I've ridden SPDs for something like 20 years, and I'm used to how they feel, and I learned how to ride with them, I tried flats (perhaps thinking that they'll lead to some MTB nirvana) but all I learned is that like anything else they need just as much learning and acclimatization as anything else, and that having spent a whole bunch of time learning how to ride SPD I wasn't really interested in starting again with flats. Most of these threads end up like that, ie
"Here's all the stuff you'll now need to re-learn to get back to the place you started from while you were on SPDs"
I wonder if actually what you need to do OP is learn to become confident with the system you have now, rather than spend a whole bunch of cash on something that you may find either doesn't result in better technique, or makes other areas worse, or not significantly better.
I had some large composite Kona Wah Wah 2 pedals, nice big platform and very grippy but not durable. Broke one of bits that goes from the end of the axle to the outside of the pedal afer about 6 months, same happened to a mate's too 🙁
Do it, dmr vault/hope pedals and trailcross for me
If your good enough to ride in the EWS series I'm surprised you need advice from us weekend warriors.
happy swinging both ways here. tend to ride clips in the summer, flats in winter.
clipping out to dab is never an issue, getting clipped back in after can be...
burgtec composites work for me.
Adidas Trail are better cosmetically so don't look daft in the pub after a ride or when on a bike packing trip. They're pretty stiff and a touch heavier than the Shimano. The GR9 are brilliant filthy weather shoes as they shed the worst of the grime and dry out pretty quick when wet through.
Pedal grip is slightly better on the Adidas but both (due to the the more aggressive tread to the front and rear of the sole) are decent for hike-a-bike or pushing up in the woods. Neither are super sticky but plenty sticky enough for me.
I like them both but tend to use them for different weather conditions. Adidas for dryer rides and the Shimano for wetter rides.
I prefer the fit of the Shimano (size 44 and normally take a 9 in a shoe), so much so that my road and off-road clipless shoes are all also Shimano.
I like the higher ankle protection inside of the Shimano. I also like the Adidas laces keeper.
Both have lasted well, the Adidas are about 3 year old and the Shimano about 2 year old.
I'd buy either again when they wear out.
Buy what fits best imo.
Used to run DMR V12's but recently switched to Burgtec penthouse flat Mk5.
Frankly they are night and day better as far as grip goes, IMHO.
I’ve tried flats several times over the years and hate them just can’t get on with them. Much happier on SPD’s
Not just me then, mainly because I know my foot will be in the same position every time I clip in. Using Mallet dh pedals and the
Axle under the midfoot rather than the ball of the foot and drop the heels
technique works just as well for me on the odd occasion I feel more confident unclipped with these pedals and Shimano me7 shoes as it does on flats. Last flats I bought were Burgtec composites, for the price I couldn't fault them in any way
Mona WahWah are ace. I use the composite. Better than any other pedal I’ve tried and I’ve tried a lot
Used to put the Crank Bros Mallet DH’s on for decent weather but the Konas are so good that habit may stop.
Of course on real rough terrain you have to “think feet” but flats are definitely more fun.
@kimbers if you fancy it, I've got a set of Nukeproof Horizon composite pedals kicking round in the shed you can have for postage. Same shape/pins as the alloy ones - were on my gravel/commuter bike until my old metal Horizons moved to the gravel bike when I fitted the new Sam Hill Enduro ones early last year.
At least gives you a decent head start as you've only got to think about shoes then 👍
Thanks Andy that's not much ce!
I've already gone & ordered some kona ones tho!
SPDs on the big bike, flats on the HT. Ultimately SPDs are quicker and can allow you to get away with stuff that I couldn’t do on flats, specifically steep, rooty, muddy corners e.g. tweed valley stuff. The trick is to train yourself not to dab, it’s really, REALLY hard at first, but persevere. 99/100 you’ll pull it off and be amazed at what the bike (and rider) can do in terms of grip etc. 1/100 you go down like a sack of shit but I reckon it’s worth it. 😉
Why Flats on the HT? I went 100% SPD and found myself becoming a bit lazy when jumping. I can can actually jump higher and I feel with more control on flats because I trust what’s going on, where with SPD there’s an element of it unclipping, and whilst that rarely happens, it must play on my mind subconsciously.
Anyway, came across this as was looking for new flat pedal recommendations. Vaults it is again…
I rode flats as a youth and bmx (can’t recall anyone riding spd’s or similar on bmx in the eighties), SPDs throughout the 90s, then I started racing bmx again in the 2000’s & went back to flats. I stopped riding BMX in about 2017 but continued on flats on MTB.
I got my new Cotic a few weeks ago & decided to try SPDs again & quickly decided they’re no longer for me. They definitely felt more efficient and on a regular route I was marginally quicker, but I just didn’t feel comfy. I could feel the pressure of the pedal shoe interface and although it didn’t hurt or anything, it just irritated me.
My flat pedal & shoe combo is burgtec penthouse & some 5.10 shoes of some sort. I also have an ageing pair of Shimano flat shoes (am5 or am7..??) with a flap over the laces & a wavey sole, which I prefer over the 5.10 but they’re knackered. I don’t particularly like my 5.10 because they’re too padded and bulky.
nobody else wears old skate shoes with their flat pedals?
i decided last year simply to experiment with flats after only using spds since they first came out decades ago.
i felt there were times when being clipped in was just not required on long remote solo rides were boggy conditions, ice and snow, or simply that cleated shoes weren't as great on big hike sections (which often happens)
now, i tend to swap my pedals around based on mood and conditions. i still love being clipped in but also love the slightly more casual feeling of thrashing around on my flats. its morphing into a pattern of spring summer - spd / autumn winter - flats. i do similar with my tyres.
the only minor issue ive had with flats (completely shoe-related) is that whilst my shimano shoes grip the flats like glue, they are terrible when hiking in mud!
both have merits and downsides, so i pick BOTH!
Well I forgot I had some 510 Impact hi tops from when I broke my ankle 10 years ago, so been riding with those on the Konas wah wahs, which are great as they match my bike!
Climbing Im really impressed not feeling any loss of power
have had to change a bit for descents, I suppose Ive got lazy using clips and have to remember to position and keep them planted on rough descents and drops
Big feet, big flats. Shanmashi do some Kona Wah Wah clones. 120*118*21mm loads of colours. Last cheap plastic pedal I used had the pins ripped sideways on a stairset first ride. These have taken some knocks and look fine.
DMR V12s are good pedals, but when you havd big feet, and then get big pedals, you realise what you were missing.
mrdestructo
I'm quite the composite wahwah fan,
which specific Shanmashi pedal please?
120*118*21mm you say
got a link perhaps please?
thx
Nukeproof Horizon Sam Hill Enduro with either Impact Pro or (my new fave) 2FO DH is an awesome combo. The Horizon are asymmetric and actual pit your foot position nicely forward of the axle by default.
I concur. And they look nice, the pedals, can't comment on the shoes.
Shenmashi CVO
https://m.it.aliexpress.com/i/1005001436154620.html?gatewayAdapt=Pc2Msite
Hopefully that link works.
Might be sensible to have some threadlock handy. Mine came with the pins in a bag and no Blue on them!
mrdestructo, thanks man, in English here https://www.aliexpress.com/i/1005001436154620.html (I think that’s google translate helping ;~}
- bargain, I guess they ship from China anyway
- have you tried the WahWah to compare, I have and like those?
"The allowable measurement error is +/- 1-3cm." wow that’s a hell of a tolerance!
neil
My VPN has the site in Italian still (its set to UK). Personally I buy all my bike stuff on Taobao locally.
I've always used V8s, V12s, or Wellgo MG1s. I tried a Crankbrothers Stamp clone last, but they broke in an impact. This is my second nylon pedal and its doing fine. Not used any other flat pedals for 20 years. I'm just appreciating a stable platform under my giant feet. I can ride better with them.
mate chill you’ll live longer
You say that like it's a good thing.