[Closed] Loose Headset, yet not...?

play in the stantions ?

If the forks are new does the steerer sit a mm lower than the top of the stem or is it flush?? If flush then it could be that the star nut isn't applying enough pre load on the headset.

Well maybe anyway

Are they Rock Shox forks with U-turn? I've got Revs that feel like the headset is loose unless the travel is set to the max or min travel. Actually is a small bit of play in the stantions before they move into the travel.

Try an extra headset spacer?

I had an issue where the base of the headset topcap was recessed and was touching the top of the fork steerer, thus not allowing me to tighten the headset properly.

Try an extra headset spacer?

I had an issue where the base of the headset topcap was recessed and was touching the top of the fork steerer, thus not allowing me to tighten the headset properly

I was typing up a long winded explanation to explain that exact problem but Leku is clearly more eloquent than me!

Check the topcap. If its not totally flat on the steerer side - that caused similar symptoms for me (ie the recess used up the 2mm ish between the top of the spacers and the steerer).

Ah - Leku's / CSW - you may have it. I have a 4mm spacer on top of the stem and the cap's on top of that - the cap is recessed and the top of the steerer protrudes above the Stem into the space.

I'll give it a go (why didnt I think of that).

Cheers all!

RE Forks - the are Revs but non u-turn dual air.

Grrrr. So thats a no. Put all the spacers plus some extras under the stem to leave a 5mm "gap". Took the opportunity to clean the headset and ensure all the bearings/rings were seated properly.

Done up tight, no avail. Fyi Its a Cane creek double XC 2 using a 1/18 bearing at the top and a 1.5 bearing into the cup at the bottom, which fits onto the "reducing" crown race - any issues with these?

put your finger on the lower race between the fork and the headset rock the bike on the brakes for you feel any play ?

I spent an hour trying to fix a loose headset until I discovered that the piece of laminate flooring on which the front wheel was resting slid 3mm fore and aft.

😳

What frame is it? On some frames the head tube is too short to take a Rockshox tapered steerer as the taper is too long. Effectively the upper race is tight on the top of the taper before it's tight on the top of the headtube.

Amazingly there isn't a standard for the length of taper on a tapered fork so this is an issue. It's a known problem on On-One 456 small frames for example. It sort of hints at it at the bottom of the specification [url= http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROOCAR456ND/on-one-carbon-456-frame-without-decals ]here[/url]

Ah - hello Klunk. No play, tried this already.

Boris - important to understand its a 1.5 Headtube & 1 1/18th fork with reducer headset - Intense Tracer.

I've even ridden it around the garden with the fork locked out, and ridden the HT in comparison.

Bloody frustrating!!

Is the crown 100% central, if not I have had the bottom bearing not quite straight which meant the steerer wasnt and the crown wouldnt seat perfect. Is the steerer tapered or 1 1/8th?

not using floating rotors are you? had the "hmmmm something is moving with the front brake on" like a loose headset does, having checked everything about a gazillion times it turned out to be a little bit of play in the floating rotor 🙄

Pretty sure the race is straight, and its a 1 1/8th steerer.

No floating rotors....

Was going to say disc rotors. Are the bolts loose, even 6 bolt ones? Had me stumped myself not so long back.

Pads moving in the caliper?
Cone washer/angled shim missing from headset?
Loose front QR?
Bars loose in stem?
Play in your wrists?...

No to pads
All headset pieces present and correct
QR is Maxle light, done up tight
Stem/bars (and even ODI grips) checked and tight.

Could be the fork bushings, but it new since Jan, about 2000k on it. Tomorrow I'll pump it up hard to make sure it's not top out..... (its Dual air).

A long shot but, have you checked the rear shock bushes? Worn bushes can give the same 'feeling' of a loose headset.

Now, Trevor its funny you should mention that. I've had issues over the last few months with s small amount stiction in the lower rear shock bush after installing a TfT enduro set (the non top hat one). When I rode the bike `I could indeed feel a "rattle" through the frame

I fixed it and the bikes had 20 or so rides since then, and "leaning" on the saddle doesn't result in stiction. It could of course till be present.... It just feels very front biased - is it usual to feel that with even a small amount of sticton?

Before anyone mention it, yes all the pivots etc have been checked.

Try cranking down the top cap a bit more. I found my Cane Creek headset rattled ever so slightly even though it felt properly adjusted (i.e. I couldn't actually feel any play). Gave the top cap an extra 1/8th of a turn (or something) and all was well. Just make sure the bars still turn nicely.

my ODI grips wobble a bit when they're worn - i.e. the grip moving around in the clamp, no matter how tight it is

brake pad movement (my XT brakes suffer this as well)

does the reducer headset use a shim which might cause additional play? (not actually sure how they work)

can you feel where the wobble is coming from with your finger tips?

are you using a proper star nut and top cap or one of these other expanding wedge devices? I had a problem with one of those fixed by going back to a star-nut.

Pete, its a crane creek XX2. The Lower 1.5 bearing sits on a crown race for a 1 1/8th and the races "inner" is the inside diaemeter of the 1/5 cartridge. The headset cup is angled and sized for 1.5. Up top, the compression ring is bigger reducing the inner diameter of the 1.5 bearing in the same way.

I checked the ODI's - no movement. The "rattle" I would describe as a "dull thud". It could be fork top out but the static test doesnt reveal that, and I have the -ve higher than the +ve (110 vs 100psi, 12st rider) whch should prevent it.

As mentioned I cant feel play at the crown when performing the usual test.

rs - its a star nut.

When did you notice this 'loose feeling'? Have you replaced anything recently, or has it just 'crept up ' on you?
From experience (my son has a tracer & I have a 5.5) the back end bearings can 'go' from one ride to the next. You appear to have checked to death the front end, then it's time to widen the search.
Sorry if I appear to be teaching granny to suck eggs.....

possible ovalised head tube? This can give this sensation as the head set will loosen all the time rt be inconstant in it's tightness.

I presume you have done the front brake on hand round top race, bottom race, fork stanchions, disk mount, disk calliper and anything else.

No worries Trevor. I had a 5.5 before and this bike is new ('10) ridden since Jan onwards - I can't detect any play in the rear end, and all the bolts are tight.

TheBrick - the headset never loosens and given the age of the Bike, this shouldnt be an issue.

I'm pretty much down to Fork bushings (despite it being a new fork), or stiction in the rear bushes.

One other thing - I'm running a coil shock and although I've checked the preload for slack could this be it?

Check the bolts are tight between the rotor and hub. If lose you get a little movement making you think its the headset or forks when you hit the brakes.

Can you do the headset up too tight? So that there's resistance turning the bars. Still feel loose? Certainly wont be the headset then, unless its a cup issue. Err, not much help then? Sorry.

I thought I had the same problem with the wifes Commencal Super4. Only diagnosed it when I noticed that I could feel what I originally thought was a loose headset by lifting the saddle a couple of mm. Turned out to be the lower bushing on the shock.

I doubt it will be preload slack as long as the preload ring is tightened onto the coil.

My fork bushings went on a pair of Pikes and only worked that out after turning the bike upside down and trying to rotate the lowers fore and aft and detecting a slight movement (invisible to the eye).

Apologies if someones mentioned this already but dont use your brakes to check the headset. Grab the steerer tube clamp of your stem and the crown and pull/push. Eliminates the brakes to a certain extent. Also I've had two pairs of Fox Floats with slight stanchion movement from new. From what I recall it used to be a 'feature' that TFtuned could fix. Maybe RS have added it.

I've got a "maintenance wndow" tomorrow so I'll check the rotor (although I can feel the looseness without the brakes on) and fork lowers.

Cheers all.

Check the join of the steerer with the fork crown. I had a set of pikes that were giving a similar knocking as if the headset was not loaded propperly. Turned out that the steerer had play in the fork crown. you should swap out the forks you are running now for another set (a mates of a spare if you have)and check if the play is still there. its one way of isolating the problem and ruling out a problem with the forks. good luck, i know how freaking annoying it can be having a problem and not being able to isolate it!

Have you covered the saddle yet? I always have a loose headset feeling but I think its because my pads move a tiny amount within the caliper.

I have ridden it for a few weeks bigjim, (I had a go at locating it before) just thinking "sod it, when whatever it is falls off I'll know".

The I take my £800 Steel HT out and it feels better straight away than the boutique bike which is VERY annoying!

Make sure the headset seals are getting trapped, don't put too much grease in it.

If you're using a hope headset have you added enough washers / shims?

Check frame for cracks... 🙁

Put your finger in between the stanchion and arch in such a way that your finger is pressing against both. Now rock the bike and you'll feel slight movement if it is the fork bushings.

Well, had the entire front end apart (and trimmed the fork to remove the spacers above the Stem). No difference. Tried all the advice above, including riding with the front brakes slightly applied to reduce any rattling pads.

At the same time by BB cups need replacing which gave me an opportunity to look for cracks and clean/tighten the pivot bolts. No issues.

aaaarggh....

Did you try my suggestion of swapig out the forks for another set, just to see. I never thought it possible but worht doing just to check

A bit tricky Jamie as this is a 1.5 headset and my other bike is a 1 1/8th. I'd need a spare reducing crown race specific to a Cane creek double xc 2 - which i dont have...

Does the stem move smoothly on the steerer? I assume it is loose when you tighten the top cap?

Sucking eggs and all that...

Sure is portly.... 😆

I have the same problem with my fork. It feels like there is play in the fork bushes but there isnt!

I think it is something to do with Maxle it's self. I am going to send my fork back to the UK SRAM tech centre and see if they have any suggestions!

Two things which made my bike seem like it had a loose headset. Play in the shimano slx rotor rivit bits and then I had a Hope reducer headset and there was play with the reducer crown race bit on my Deville forks. Changed to a cheap Superstar reducer headset, no play.