[Closed] Let down by Merlin Cycles and SRAM

How did you pay?

Could always initiate a [url= http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act/ ]section 75[/url] via you credit card.

TBF, Fishers/SRAM are normally very good with warranty. There must be something in the way they've broken that's causing them to query the reason.

However, I thought that the law was on your side if they are still quite new (< 6 months???) and that they would have to come up with definitive proof.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/forks-broken

[img] [/img]

What were you actually doing when they broke?

not paid on credit card was debit card. there not new only just inside there warranty. they have offered no proof just a photo copy of an inspect sheet saying they bent backwards which they didnt. After emailing for almost 2 months I'm just disappointed that they would treat a customer like this. they offered my a replacement price which was the same cost as any other website, when I mentioned this they said I'm free to purchase were I want.

scotroutes I came of a small drop but landed back wheel first the forks had more travel than the drop

Did you ever get the hi res photos?

Now that IS metal fatigue 😯

What hub do you run, and qr or bolt through?

I'd say its down to rotation for them to do that! Was anything loose?

Superglue and ebay?

If they were crashed, I'd expect there to be at least some damage to either/all of the lowers/stantions/steerer in the form of bending or alignment. If the forging of the crown has failed due to material or manufacturing process, then the rest of the fork should be fine (unless you crashed as a result of the crown snapping).

Ask Sram what evidence their conclusion is based on.

Edit: nevermind, just realised it's the arch that broke, not the crown. Probably harder to prove you were JRA.

no andy they have been travelling since then currently on there way back from netherlands so will get them up when I next see them.

Input from SRAM

Hmm, thats where the alarm bells ring for me!

TBF, Fishers/SRAM are normally very good with warranty

My experience too... hence I'd [b]guess[/b] the line goes like this

Merlin
OEM
Grey
No UK warranty
Not sent to Tech-Centre

Edit:

on there way back from netherlands

Aha - that sort of reinforces my opinion, A suspicious person would start stroking their chin and saying 'Jimmy Hill' about now!

I think the section 75 advice is good!

Get the photos up and we'll take a look before you go any further. Won't be definitive but should see something.

they were proper ones I believe don't think OEM but you can never be sure.

section 75 is out of the question due to me getting them on a debit card.

I have asked for the report from SRAM Netherlands and emailed citizes advice. The customer is always right is not something SRAM or Merlin have ever heard of apparently.

your contract of sale is with Merlin.

start small claims action.

I think I will wait for the response from citizens advice and merlin's next response but will read up on small claims as I feel I have been wronged.

your contract is with Merlin but I cannot see what you will do to enforce it.
They will just cite what SRAM have said in terms of the report and I am not sure how you would prove that it is certainly metal fatigue

If you paid via debit card, then you want to be doing this:

Invoking the chargeback procedure:

If you suspect your card has been used fraudulently, if the goods and services you bought with your card are faulty or if they do not materialise, then you should contact the bank who has provided you with your Visa debit card within 120 days, requesting they initiate the chargeback process. It does not mean you will automatically and immediately get your money back. It will initially become a ‘dispute’ in which the claim will be fully investigated by both banks before any money is returned.

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/

they were proper ones I believe don't think OEM but you can never be sure.

er, what sort of packaging did it come in? OE stuff doesnt tend to come in logo'ed aftermarket boxes with proper manuals and accessories.

I am not sure how you would prove that it is certainly metal fatigue

more a case of them proving it was..

Jamie, its over 120 days and charge back only covers items under £100. thank though I've been doing a fair bit of research to try and sort this out.

As crashtestmonkey says; If they didn't come in a retail box with the correct label they're almost certainly OEM, especially if they come from Merlin and even more especially if they were 30-45% off 'SRP.'

Another way to check though; Fishers only import one model of Sektor RL with white lowers, they have this spec.

"Sektor RL - Solo Air QR White Motion Control Alum Str 1 1/8" Disc (150mm max travel)

Fishers code: RS8241001"

If your fork doesn't match this description it's definitely OE so not Fishers problem. If it does and it came in a proper box then it could well be legit aftermarket and very much Fisher's problem.

Your warranty contract however, lies with Merlin, they made the money out of you either way so go get 'em.

Bit confused why they did't send them to fishers - my missus RS forks from Merlin went there?? Sounds like they are grey imports if they went to the netherlands. Shouldn't change how it impacts you really. It's "only" the lowers - are they offering a crash replacement on lowers? It's a very quick and easy swap.

If something is not warrantied then the normal thing to do is offer crash replacement as good will.

I had some Manitou SX-Ti's snap at the brace many moons ago, a quick search on MTBR showed loads of identical failures, Answer fessed up there was production run with a casting defect and I got them warrantied. Have you researched to see if there have been other failures? Playing Devils Advocate but if yours is the first you'll struggle to convince anyone (Merlin, SRAM, CAB, court) that its [i]not[/i] your fault.

Manufacturers used to void warranties if drop-out-mounted roof racks were used as this subjected the forks to loads they they weren't designed for, so its not as simple as saying you haven't crashed them. A loose QR/maxle would allow for rotational forces on the legs under braking that would stress the brace, for instance.

Bit confused why they did't send them to fishers - my missus RS forks from Merlin went there?? Sounds like they are grey imports if they went to the netherlands

exactly what I thought.

If something is not warrantied then the normal thing to do is offer crash replacement as good will.

problem is, crash replacement prices are usually based on aftermarket rrp and might not be not cost effective (especially if the forks were cheap OE which looks to be the case). Before Answer actually warrantied my $500rrp forks they offered me a new set of lowers as a crash replacement for $200. I'd paid $199 for the forks....

they offered me full forks at cost price but when I mentioned that several shops were cheaper they basically said well buy from them then.

there still in warranty and they are that model you have just described mike well 15mm maxle but sektor solo air with white lowers. came in a rockshox box. might contact fishers to see what they say cant hurt

Bloody wizzards

ha true can't trust a wizard

Just a thought - but I like the executive complaint route for problems.

Do a google search / linked-in for CEO / Head of Marketing and any other executives you can find for SRAM (Merlin might also be an option).

Copy them all into a very clear email that summarises the issue - and explains that you have exhusted other options (and you can send copies of the emails etc).

Also direct all recipients to the negative feedback that is being generated on this forum.

Two things tend to happen with this approach - some one high up the foodchain delegates this to someone who will make you go away. Or someone from marketing steps in to stop you generating more bad PR.

If nothing happens - well you tried!

Can you be quite specific OP:

What forks?

SID or Boxxers?

How old

Only ever one race fitted?

What frame?

it says Sector RL on the brace hora?

Hora, it wasn't the crown it was the arch - as per the photo in the third post

Ah big apologies, thats what happens when you post from a ickle mobile.

OP, I also have Sektors and they seem quite 'delicate' (alot of flex). Should a heavy thus avoid? Weird considering their billing.

I would look into the small claims route and no, I wouldn't chalk it upto experience. That is a bizarre place for forks to fail.

hora - Member

OP, I also have Sektors and they seem quite 'delicate' (alot of flex)

Hah. My recommendation to you is to never ride a 150mm 32.

I had a go on someones- jeesus 😯 makes you wonder if that much flexing allows dirt to pop in/help the stanchion wear along 😀

LOL - slate a fork and conclude them as delicate cos of one user has a freak set. Come one now.

Have you spoken to SRAMTech direct? quote the produce serial number (on back of the crown) when speaking to them.

You did the Mr Nice Guy, so first geet your forks back and then issue a small claim against them.

Sorry but if you MTFU and go on the attack you will win, if wou keep faffing around and moaning, they will win.

to misquote a phrase 'that denial is useless without evidence' and 'must have' is not a known empirical demonstration of fact, so unless they can do better it is 'ollocks and response sould be'OK lets put it before a judge in (my local) court and see if he thinks I am a liar and believes your so called engineering analysis, or whether he thinks I am an honest punter and you have tried to fob me off'

You absolutely must get the forks back first.

Hi there,

well lets get things straight. You bought some forks, used them and they broke. You initially said that you had a soft landing so you will agree that the forks have experienced some trauma.

SRAM say that they will not honour the warranty as they have been crashed. Or experienced trauma.

The first thing I would say is that forks should be designed to experience a certain level of trauma. So the question relates to just how much trauma your forks have experienced and whether the forks should have withstood this.

Incidentally do you still have these forks in your position?

So the first thing we must do is establish whether there are any other physical sighs of crash to the fork. Gashes, missing paint dents etc? if your answer is yes then it could be reasonable to say that they have been crashed. If the answer is no, we probably cant blame the damage on a crash and perhaps should look deeper. Again if the answer to this question is no than there is no way that SRAM can categorically say that your forks have been crashed.

I would say that in general your forks will not have been looked at someone who knows much about the materials and the processes employed. I would guess that they are some customer service guy or rep whose default response is to refuse. (I generally find that people who work for bike companies are not that clued up). Anyway, its unlikely that they will have been looked at by a metallurgist and a failure investigation done. Particularly if the forks are still in your possession.

So whats next. if there are no other marks on the fork, we will never know the level of trauma the forks have seen. So we have to look at something else. We should investigate the materials. This will involve looking at the two fracture surfaces in some detail.

So the question is has this been done?

To be fair from the fracture it's be fairly obvious to someone with a bit of engineering training whether the fault is from the manufacturering process or not and the forks if they have been returned to SRAMTECH either here or in europe should have been looked at by the workshop manager who would have a good idea on this.

Again if the answer to this question is no than there is no way that SRAM can categorically say that your forks have been crashed.

I refer you to an earlier post of mine - abuse/misuse doesnt just mean crash damage.

We should investigate the materials. This will involve looking at the two fracture surfaces in some detail.

So the question is has this been done?

Who's going to pay for that? Do you think for a second it will be cost-effective? Before I had a total career change I was a materials scientist and a primary function of my role was to investigate failures (and alleged failures from dubious claims) for a multi-national manufacturer of steel and alloy products. A couple of hours of my time was worth far more than the cost of a pair of Sektors (my dept used to cost my time at £750 for half a day).

Crashmonkey, as a materials bod, would you say that a fault with the casting would be fairly obvious as air gaps, impurities, faults at the point of the break would be relativly easy to see?

if they have been returned to SRAMTECH

...do we know for sure they were sent and Merlin didn't just sit on it for a couple of weeks ?

A few years ago I had a new component fail on it's 1st ride and Merlin were not too helpful / didn't believe it 'just happened'. They sent it on to someone (can't remember who) to be assessed and after a couple of weeks of me chasing them they still refused. I have my doubts that it was sent anywhere but I might have been placated if they had even offered a discount on a replacement (but they didn't).

What can you do ? Well I usually avoid shopping with them especially on anything I might expect warranty help with in future and now and again I have a whinge on a thread 😉

FWIW i once saw someone arguing about a pedal in there and saying it just failed.
I am no expert but it was bent , the pins were bent and it has a huge impact gouge and he still insisted it was damaged.

I suspect they [ all shops tbh]get their fair share of chancers so may err on the side of caution.

get on social media #bashtag
get the US HQ involved

Fubar, I wasn't suggesting that.

I'd honestly suggest speaking to SRAMTECH UK and see what they say as they'll be have dealt with them. No point in getting all het up until you've spoken to them, as I said previously.

TBH, if there's any doubt over use/abuse with no obvious signs, then I think as a Product Warranty Manager, I would take one for the team and replace the lower legs FOC if for nothing else than a sign of goodwill.

As a customer, if I'd have been treated like the OP, assuming he's telling the truth, then I'd go out of my way to buy from anyone other than the manufacturer in question again, and also tell anyone else not to buy from them also. All that for what is probably a $20 part at Srams cost.

Take a look at the way Hope sort things out. If you have a broken part, no matter how it occurred, they replace generally FOC or at worst case, cost. This generally results in a happy customer and repeat business, even if it's their fault the part failed.

Stuff breaks, it's how companies deal with it that mark them apart.