Fantastic day in the Peak, everything riding really, really nicely, but a bit of a shock when we hit the last section of downhill to the gate below Mam Nick from Rushup Edge, what was ribboned, rubbly, moorland singletrack is now an eight-foot wide levelled gravel track with the odd minor water bar. And on the other side of the Nick, the track up towards Hollin Cross, the rag it till your legs fall off singletrack climb, has also been flattened and widened, though not gravelled yet - the descent below Mam Tor's untouched though.
Anyway, a bit sad. I don't want to get into a debate about trail restoration and sensitivity or lack of it and I don't doubt that a combination of heavy use and rain will rip the whole thing to pieces again in a matter of years, but thought I'd flag it up so other people don't experience quite the same lump in the throat, sinking feeling as they crest the rise below the footpath / bridleway junction.
Awesome day otherwise and, somewhat appropriately, the track down towards the ford at Roych Clough is starting to feel a bit more like its old, pre-sanitised self again.
Mañana, Cut Gate and a lot more besides 🙂
huh 🙁
Just wait a few years with the torrential rain we get these days they end up in a worse state (of course meaning better) than before. I dont know why they bother if your going to do it at least do it properly and lay cobbles or setts like the original trail builders would have done hundreds of years ago. Throwing down a load of gravel is a waste of money, doesnt look good when brand new and is probably bad for the environment.
It's going to fall to pieces, no question. I just don't really see the point of what they've done. It's a shame because I think the Cut Gate stuff's been done really well in quite a thoughtful, non-intrusive way, but this is just proper flatten everything in sight and slap down the gravel stuff.
Incidentally, the other week, I also came across a group of blokes from Wakefield, I think, Rotary Club, who were levelling a section of the Roman Road above Hope, the bit above Hope Cross which used to have a ribbon of singletrack to one side, which is now fenced off. They were basically destroying one of the rock steps, apparently because they need to get a Landrover with trailer up to the hut up there with a water bowser in. Apparently the hut caters for deprived youngsters and they had permission from the farmer and one of the trustees of the hut.
I asked them if they'd had any contact with the Peak Park Authority and they gave me that slack-jawed look I associate with rotweiler dogs confronted by a cryptic crossword. I have no idea what the legal situation with that one is, but it seemed amateurish at best and vandalesque at worst. What worries me is what they're going to level next... perhaps they could concrete over the rest of the road down to Hope.
Tick. Was there today and the mam nick to hollins cross is really sad to see after so many years of it being basically unchanged.
how about jacobs ladder to give mortals a chance of riding up?
Na, Jacob's is still the same old horror show at the bottom and long may it stay that way too 🙂
I am to be honest, ****ed off with the middle class tits who have done it, national trust ****ing do gooders! One bloke remarke dthat they were doing it to piss of bikers
Just goes to reinforce my opinion that we need to be represented by a mountain bikers only collective.
Is there not some sort of users group for the Peaks?
Can I join in the middle-class rantette?
Don't mountain bikers join the National Trust for the free car parking?
Awaits abuse ...
CG - There was a dark peak something or other bunch largely driven by horse riders but from what I could gather it lacked any real teeth and the meeting I attended was dire. NBT knows most about this topic in the peaks.
The mam nick stuff is particularly frustrating as in both cases it's a bridleway alternative running parallel to the heavily used tourist footpaths and it's relatively rare to see any walkers on these. Some visibility of the reasoning behind works would be a good start.
A bit of skidding will help to start to break up the surface.
Digimap - there was recently a discussion on here about Local Access Forums. I did in fact some time ago e-mail to offer my services as a mountain biking representative for my area - Hampshire. I have not heard a thing 🙁
It's so frustrating cos the Ramblers Association seem to be pretty well-organised and vocal, as do the Trail Riders Fellowship. Not sure about the British Horse Society though.
There's no joined-up thinking and consultation 🙄
I'm struggling to understand this one. Isn't this like the 4x4 drivers club complaining that the authorities have laid new tarmac on the M1?
nbt will be along shortly.
We've been to a few meetings to try and give the mtbers view point on things. As in a lot of cases there just aren't enough of us at these meetings.
This kind of trail vandalising went on about 4 or 5 years ago at the Roman Lakes, Marple, where the local council shamefully bunged loads of gravel down after flattening some really good descents. Even the local horsey brigade were unhappy with the results. Still after these last few years the tracks haven't reverted back to the way they were and the lack of drainage has caused large gullies on some tracks, which luckily being local I can look out for. Equally for horse riders and walkers, these can end up being unpleasent to use.
si at 18 and cotic cy are in a group called "ride the peak"
I think with ramblers they have more time on their hands.
Mtbers and horsey folk tend to be younger with work commitments and families so they don't always have the time.
'ride the peak' is the group I was talking about.
Luckily at our end of the Peaks (Roman Lakes again) the local rights of way officer is a cyclist, so seems to understand the sanatising of trails is not always the way forward.
Bunnyhop - have many of your trails been reclassified, ie originally 'byway open to all traffic' but now 'restricted byway'?
I agree with your observation on time constraints but you are fortunate to have an undestanding ROW officer 🙂
Not sure nbt is the expert in our area.
He'll be along shortly.
Hey me must go out for a ride at some point.
t the last section of downhill to the gate below Mam Nick from Rushup Edge, what was ribboned, rubbly, moorland singletrack is now an eight-foot wide levelled gravel track with the odd minor water bar.
Heard about that off a mate last weekend, not heard anything about it beforehand
And on the other side of the Nick, the track up towards Hollin Cross, the rag it till your legs fall off singletrack climb,
If it's the track I think it is, that's being done [b][i]by[/i][/b] Ride The Peak - the track's a mess. THast's not going to be gravelled, but the braiding and draining is being sorted pre-emptively before the track gets so bad they send the diggers in. There's 40k allocated that [b][i]MUST[/i][/b] be spent on trail maintenance in the Edale Valley, where would you rather it was spent? the bits that can be done by hand are being done by volunteers, so that the stuff that's a right mess can be done by machine. If funds were unlimited, verything could be done as sympathetically as Cut Gate, but reality bites 🙁
Wish I could be more specific about the works but due to other stuff going on, I haven't been as active in Ride The Peak as I would like, nor have I been riding as much, and when I have ridden it's been from home - not ridden round Edale since last summer, I think.
How about a new tarmac surface on Chapel Gate. Almost all the old stuff has washed away now 🙁
How about a new tarmac surface on Chapel Gate. Almost all the old stuff has washed away now
I beleuive the last one was done by the Army, at least that's what I was told. Get them to do it again?
Stop whining, its a public right of way not a cheeky bit of singletrack you built in the local woods, the landowner has a duty to keep it well maintained. Glad to hear they've surfaced it properly.
They tried to do something similar with the descent from Coldwell Clough down to the campsite in Hayfield and (for whatever reason) Nick Craig got involved with it. They said they were going to flatten/gravel the lot of it to "make it safer for cyclists" and Nick told them that was positively the last thing that needed doing since that makes it MORE dangerous. higher speeds and less traction = more accidents.
The do-gooder brigade need to be made aware that the trail needs to be made MORE technical, not just to slow riders down but to keep the interest in the trail.
Real shame to see another great bit of trail sanitised with no real though gone into it. 🙁
Stop whining, its a public right of way not a cheeky bit of singletrack you built in the local woods, the landowner has a duty to keep it well maintained. Glad to hear they've surfaced it properly.
That's the point, they haven't resurfaced it properly, it's going to fall to bits in a matter of years. And if you read my original post, you'll see that I said I didn't want to get into a debate about trail sanitisation, I just mentioned it so people know. So I'm not whining, thanks. You on the other hand [i]are[/i] whining about other people having an opinion about their local trails being spoiled unnecessarily. Guess what matey, this is a mountain bike forum and astonishingly, people look at things from a mountain biking point of view. You on the other hand seem to be taking it up the butt from the land-owning classes. Congratulations.
Hmm, I was going to include in a route last Weds - went the other side of the a57 instead.
when we hit the last section of downhill to the gate below Mam Nick from Rushup Edge, what was ribboned, rubbly, moorland singletrack is now an eight-foot wide levelled gravel track with the odd minor water bar.
I've not actually ridden this for a while and need a reminder of what's been done to what. There was a BW on the right of the fence (heading to Mam Nick) and a path on the left. Which one has been lobotomised?
Sometimes, in all the excitement of the moment I've forgotten which is which and ridden the FP which tended to be drier than the BW (as far as I remember, anyway) and I also seem to recall it being more fun. Of course, my memory is shot and I could be totally wrong about that.
Oh, and the second track, the one up towards Hollin Cross from Mam Nick looks like a work in progress. It was bad over the winter to be fair, so I can see why they're working on it.
If they must spend £40K on trail maintenance in the Edale Valley, why don't they sort out Chapel Gate which far more of a mess than anything else in the area?
I've not actually ridden this for a while and need a reminder of what's been done to what. There was a BW on the right of the fence (heading to Mam Nick) and a path on the left. Which one has been lobotomised?Sometimes, in all the excitement of the moment I've forgotten which is which and ridden the FP which tended to be drier than the BW (as far as I remember, anyway) and I also seem to recall it being more fun. Of course, my memory is shot and I could be totally wrong about that.
You're thinking of a different bit I think. The section that's been gravelled and levelled is simply the final few hundred metres from the final gate on the Rushup Edge bridleway down to the gate on the road. Used to be two ribbons of singletrack with the odd step, finished through a small cluster of trees.
BadlyWiredDog - MemberGuess what matey, this is a mountain bike forum and astonishingly, people look at things from a mountain biking point of view. You on the other hand seem to be taking it up the butt from the land-owning classes. Congratulations.
The Land Owning Classes? Is that the 19th Century calling for you?
Used to be two ribbons of singletrack with the odd step, finished through a small cluster of trees.
Gotcha. Not quite as severe as i thought but still poorly planned with no consultation and very badly implemented by the sounds of it.
As it happens I saw the 'works' on the Roman Road last week and wondered what was going on. It looked like the work of Time Team on bad acid. No one there so I didn't get a chance to politely air my views.
The Land Owning Classes? Is that the 19th Century calling for you?
No, it was a deliberately archaic reference to reflect a curiously dated deference to land owners. A bit subtle and wasted.
Oh, and I apologise for being quite so rude, it's just that every time this sort of thing gets posted there's someone who pops up to say that it's great that stuff is being re-surfaced. If you're local to the Peak though, you'll understand that it's a very popular, heavily-used area and that the Peak Park guys do have an awareness of mountain biking and have done some excellent sympathetic restoration on trails like Cut Gate, which is why some people find the work referred to in this thread a bit upsetting. It's not anti trail maintenance, it's just questioning how it's been done in this case. A bit subtle I know.
Having lived in Nottingham and Then Sheffield for 2 and 4 years I know exactly how very popular and heavily overused the area is. I think it is very likely, and is probably the most sympathetic solution that most of the bridleways will end up like this.
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Funnily enough, I don't think they will, I hope that selective and sympathetic maintenance, like the work on Cut Gate will become more of the norm rather than nam-esque, 'the trail had to be destroyed, so it could be saved' thinking. There are some good people working for the Peak Park and Moors for the Future including a fair few mountain bikers.
Anyway, big miles, big smiles Peak ride planned for today, trail restoration or not
they won't end up like that unless it's the only option - and sometimes it is the only option, e.g. over peaty moorland. As BWD says the chaps who are planning the works do actually have an appreciation of what works and what doesn;t, some of them are involved with RideThePeak
They tried to do something similar with the descent from Coldwell Clough down to the campsite in Hayfield and (for whatever reason) Nick Craig got involved with it. They said they were going to flatten/gravel the lot of it to "make it safer for cyclists" and Nick told them that was positively the last thing that needed doing since that makes it MORE dangerous. higher speeds and less traction = more accidents.
I don;t remember seing Nick there ever, but I [b][i]was[/i][/b] involved in that bit, and I [b][i]did[/i][/b] tell them that flattening it and gravelling it would be a bad idea. They then flattened it and gravelled it and once a few people had been taken to hospital from failing to make the sharp bend and hitting a stone wall flat out, they rebuilt the trail to route bicycles down the technical bit we'd originally pointed out 🙄
Does anyone fancy taking some shots of this? I can picture the first bit down the last bit of Rushup to the road, but what's the other bit? Is it the bridleway that goes 'round' Mam Tor?
I am a bit confused too...
I think it is basically either side of the road at 125834? So east end of Rushup, and west end of BW from Hollins Cross, 'round' Mam Tor?
There's now grey gravelly "roads" on some of the trails near Stirling - they will become streams, are incredibly steep (so no use to wheelchairs, buggies etc.), are really slippy when cold and look terrible - it's supposed to be the countryside, not the town! I am appalled by what's happening with this "core path" nonsense.
They then flattened it and gravelled it and once a few people had been taken to hospital from failing to make the sharp bend and hitting a stone wall flat out, they rebuilt the trail to route bicycles down the technical bit we'd originally pointed out
That reminds me of the bridge at Ladybower, myself, and more than a few of my friends have nearly come a cropper after carrying too much speed down the hill.
The trails I'm talking about are - [url= http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=412062&Y=383297&A=Y&Z=120 ]this one[/url] - which is the bridleway running down from Rushup Edge to Mam Nick from the point where the footpath and bridleway intersect, that's the gravelled, levelled path that's going to disintegrate quite quickly I reckon.
The other one is [url= http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=412792&Y=383977&A=Y&Z=120 ]this[/url]: it's the bridleway that runs below Mam Tor and up towards the ridge along to Hollins Cross. That's been flattened and slightly widened, just the climb section, the grassy downhill to the ridge is untouched.
I was at the meeting with NBT about the Hayfield trail behind the campsite, the original restored version was lethal - really open and fast with an off camber bend throwing you out towards a wall and a big drainage hump in just the wrong place to kick your rear wheel up. They really had trouble understanding that fast and open isn't necessarily good and safe. The new lefthand singletrack by-pass section was built as a direct result of that meeting and, I think, works really well. The top and bottom sections of that trail are still really good fun, the middle bit which is flat with the odd hump is somewhat less entertaining.
The Peak's interesting because it gets such heavy use and, is also quite susceptible to heavy rain damage. I guess you either accept erosion and leave things until they erode down to bedrock, which personally I have no objection to, or you accept that you need to maintain stuff. But if you do the latter, surely you have a moral responsibility to do it sympathetically.
Like I said earlier in the thread, 'the trail had to be destroyed so it could be saved' philosophy of path restoration has no real place in an area which derives a lot of income from outdoor recreational activity.
Oh, and as far as spending that £40k goes, how about the track directly down from Mam Nick to Edale, that could do with some sympathetic landscaping, he said, having struggled to ride up it yesterday 🙁
how about the track directly down from Mam Nick to Edale
Hope you don't mean [url= http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=412962&y=384537&z=120&sv=412962,384537&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map.srf&searchp=ids.srf&dn=669&ax=412962&ay=384537&lm=0 ]this one[/url] BWD, went down it on Saturday, fan-bloody-tastic.
BTW thanks for the spray house farm route advice, was a brilliant end to the ride.
