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What makes the car driver's time more important than the cyclists'?
No-one's saying it is. But to pull over takes a few seconds, re-organising into more manageable groups takes no time if you agree it before heading onto that bit of road; versus 7 minutes of the driver's time.
A few seconds of your time to save minutes of someone else's is common courtesy, NOTHING TO DO WITH WHO'S DRIVING/RIDING WHAT VEHICLE.
For my argument, all you have to do is ignore the modes of transport and just consider people.
As someone has already said above, if cyclists are expected to stop/pull over every time a car come up behind them then they'll be making no progress at all.
anyone posted up the actual section of road this took place on?
if cyclists are expected to stop/pull over every time a car come up behind them then they'll be making no progress at all
Again, that's not what anyone's saying.
anyone posted up the actual section of road this took place on?
No, there's some sort of protecting the innocent clause preventing that information being disclosed.
This thread does everything (again) to reinforce the negative stereotype of the typical STW forumite.
Miserable bunch of anti-cycling, Audi driving, trial centre riding biffers.
Sad.
anyone posted up the actual section of road this took place on?
It's top secret, to [s]protect the innocent[/s] hide the fact it's only 400 yards long with nowhere to pull over.
I've had 19 cups of tea and 11 packets of Digestives whilst reading this thread.. I feel sick now, I may Vom.
Isn't it all just the same old, same old....same old...
Story.
Wow - just how many times can the same argument be circulated with no concensus or conclusion.
I've an idea! How about the OP meets the Roadies in the pub and we all agree to go out and retrace the route on Sunday and see what we all think.
Might be good for another 13 pages.........
most had some sort of team kit on
no one has pointed out that its club kit.
Also if you were behind the club for so long and you have healthy eyes why did you not get the clubs email and then email the club to complain?
Happens all the time in my club. we just laugh abouut it and then screw over some one elses driving day 😆 😆 😆
[edit] tongue in cheek for the last part [/edit]
re-organising into more manageable groups takes no time if you agree it before heading onto that bit of road
And what about the point that splitting up into pairs would mean the driver now has to make five overtakes on a hazardous stretch of road?
I've an idea! How about the OP meets the Roadies in the pub and we all agree to go out and retrace the tout on Sunday and see what we all think.
If the OP goes to the pub I demand he takes a printout of this thread with him 😀
And videos it all too...
And what about the point that splitting up into pairs would mean the driver now has to make five overtakes on a hazardous stretch of road?
It's a fair one. Personally I wouldn't take a group down a road that bad, for that exact reason. If I found myself on one accidentally I'd argue for the group to break up into single riders to allow cars to negotiate when they could safely. I certainly would not block the road for 8 minutes.
Nice one Graham
I will take some Bombers, just in case. 😀
Team kit didnt mean anything to me at the time, didnt recognise it. But now know its a fairly local club. The club is a good club, does a lot for youth cycling in the local area. A good friend has done some coaching (MTB) for them in the past. I donated some bits and bobs when they had an auction recently, Marz Bombers were part of my donation strangelly enough.! As I said this isnt a witch hunt but I will let you know the outcome of Thursday.
Will have to get the first blow in as they may come packed. 🙂 🙂
You're missing the point.
The cyclists have as much right to be on the road (any road) as the car driver.
They did not block the road, they are traffic.
If it is not safe to overtake then the vehicle behind does not overtake, whether it is a bike, horse, ped or another car.
All this insistence on courtesy does not reflect the real-life experience of being on the road, in any vehicle.
As numerous people have said it is likely to be less safe to split than it is to stay together and the OPs least controversial stopping place is a death trap.
Matt
How about the OP meets the Roadies in the pub and we all agree to go out and retrace the route on Sunday and see what we all think.
Great! Can we all wear out new bargain £15 Endura STW jerseys for that 'matching team kit' look? Then any owners of a combustion engine who get stuck behind us knows what forum to complain on.
I guess you didn't read the OP about the road not being wide enough for two cars plus a bike?No-one's saying it is. But to pull over takes a few seconds, re-organising into more manageable groups takes no time if you agree it before heading onto that bit of road; versus 7 minutes of the driver's time.
+1 Butcher
I ride both MTB, and with a club on the road, and proud of it!
The OP makes a point that considers himself and his schedule to be of more importance than the roadies at the time. He must get past because he is in a car...All road users have equal rights, they were ahead.
Druidh said:
if cyclists are expected to stop/pull over every time a car come up behind them then they'll be making no progress at allmolgrips said:
Again, that's not what anyone's saying.
But we are talking about one car getting held up here, the OPs, if they [i]should[/i] pull over for this one car, then why not by extension every car. You'd never get anywhere.
And what about the point that splitting up into pairs would mean the driver now has to make five overtakes on a hazardous stretch of road?
If the road is too hazardous to pass, they shouldn't pass. So the point is irrelevant.
If I pass into a gap between you and your mate in front, just pretend I'm the team-car and draft me. But don't expect me to hand you a bidon 😉
road not being wide enough for two cars plus a bike?
if its wide enough for two cars then surely you had enough space to overtake? You don't go round a car when there is an on coming car so just wait for there to not be an on coming car and go round. You sir are a sissy lurking driver and a massive troll.
I know we haven't identified the club yet, but I have a really urge to have a pint in this pub on Thursday.
Matt
I'd argue for the group to break up into single riders to allow cars to negotiate when they could safely
Eh?? Then cars would need to make TEN separate overtakes on a road the OP didn't feel comfortable making ONE on.
Seems fairly likely that would actually hold up cars for a lot longer overall, though granted the drivers might feel slightly happier as they'd have the illusion of making progress.
I don't quite see how so many of you have changed specialknees into toad of toad hall. It is possible for cyclists to be arrogant too you know.
168Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.
169Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.
Posted again for fun. It's 2012 and even in club kit lycra and carbon, you are a slow moving vehicle.
Then cars would need to make TEN separate overtakes on a road the OP didn't feel comfortable making ONE on
I dunno, there could have been innumerable single cyclist opportunities in four miles, but no peleton overtaking ones.
'Long queue of traffic' do we know if one existed?
Matt
He wasn't trying to overtake (as in performing an overtaking manoeuvre) so no reason to "slow down if necessary"
Also; I don't believe he was claiming to be the lead car of a long queue of traffic.
Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.
One car does not qualify as a [i]"long queue of traffic"[/i] and they DID [i]"pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass"[/i].
So I'm not sure what your point is.
Wait, weren't these points made on page 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 and 13?
I dunno, there could have been innumerable single cyclist opportunities in four miles, but no peleton overtaking ones.
Unless the OP has a particularly awful car, the difference between overtaking one bike (properly) versus 5 riding two-abreast should be a matter of seconds.
Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is [b]safe[/b] and let traffic pass.
And back to square one, we are.
Is it too much to ask, to have your saftey respected?
double post - please delete
Wait, weren't these points made on page 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 and 13?
I personally feel that my point of emailing the club and calling the op a sissy are new to the thread and should be acknowlaged as the best points so far; and infact ever.
double post - please delete
Isn't that true of every single post in the thread by now?
I personally feel that my point of emailing the club and calling the op a sissy are new to the thread and should be acknowlaged as the best points so far; and infact ever.
Neatly proving my point alex222 doubles up the only original post in the thread 🙂
get out of the way!
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500 posts is in sight....1000 by the end of the week?
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Oh dear.. I have just Vom'd.
It was the 21st cup of tea that did it..
Or that last but one digestive.
Isn't that true of every single post in the thread by now?
Quadruple I'd say. I should give up really.
alex222 - Member
Wait, weren't these points made on page 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 and 13?
I personally feel that my point of emailing the club and calling the op a sissy are new to the thread and should be acknowlaged as the best points so far; and infact ever.
Should be included as a signature in the first post of every new thread from now on!
Can't believe this is still going, must be someone must have some money on how many posts it can get to.... 😉
Time stuck behind these cyclists vs time wasted in this thread?
One is not ok, but the other is?
the argument that it's 'nicer' and 'more courteous' for cyclists to pull over is utterly misleading.
It suggests cyclists are somehow second-class citizens
It's less safe for the cyclist, driver and the driver or cyclist coming the other way.
And as i've said numerous times ^^, those who are arguing that point, go and ride the road a few times and experience for yourself what happens when drivers pass you.
There's a reason I ride primary position and it's entirely about safety and bitter, bitter experience. If I stop doing this as you suggest, there's a strong risk my family and friends will be standing around in anguish at my funeral. Please go and get some road riding experience instead of circulating the myth that primary position or two abreast are somehow morally wrong or selfish. It's not middle aged men playing games, it's a matter of life and death (no exaggeration)
For cyclists to be taking such a position shows how deeply ingrained these dangerous beliefs are.
And OP, seriously, you've wound a few of us up on here, I wouldn't do this face to face - it's a very emotive issue amongst regular commuters and road riders and you need to have some empathy for that.
Someone in that group may well know someone injured or killed by a car driver and may not take too kindly to your points.
You sir are a sissy lurking driver and a massive troll.
I must admit "sissy lurking driver" was a pretty good one
Chapeau!