[Closed] if ever there was a incentive not to use a route..

OK, so the bull can type, but he needs to work on his punctuation.

Illegal to block a ROW like that IIRC

Just a bit of threshold training when it spots you Shirley?

If there's a right of way, the farmer shouldn't be putting a dangerous bull in the field. Farmer by me often puts a bull in a field with a bridleway going through it. It's bloody massive but just a big softy 😀

To be fair, it doesn't say don't enter it just says be aware

As the old sign says "can you cross this field in 60 seconds? Coz the bull can do it in 55"

Presence of a stile rather than a gate suggests it is a footpath so is in no way being blocked. Warning about a bull is fine, but is a double edged sword. On the one hand it may help people who worry about such things to decide whether or not to cross the field. On the other hand he is admitting that the bull may cause problems so would be on shakey ground if anything did happen to someone should the bull do something unpredictable. There are certain breeds of bull (mostly the dairy breeds) which should never be in fields crossed by ROWs. Common sense says that any bull, whatever the breed, should not be put in a field with public access if he is in any way aggressive.

Farmer round here was recently cleared after a bull killed a walker on a footpath. Think it depends if the bull has previous. Seem to recall it was H&S case rather than a Police prosecution.

Good use of capitals and exclamation marks by Mr Bull. Could be one of many posters on here..

Morecash,

Are you referring to the notts/leic case?
That verdict was astounding.

Is that sign in pinefield wood in the lickey hills? Last few times I have been past there always seem to be a group of scared walkers looking for another route.

Illegal to block a ROW like that IIRC

But it's not blocked tho is it?
There's just livestock in the field...

There's just [s]livestock[/s] potentially dangerous animal in the field.

Please, feel free to walk down this alley. There's a bear in it, but go ahead, it's open.

But cows are just as dangerous... If not more so, and people still cross the fields...

I don't think cows are as agressive and likely to attack, are they?

Billy's got some work to do before he gains his knots badge

Got jostled by a herd of heifers at the weekend - this lot [after I'd jumped over, and got me bib shorts stuck, on the fence]. Bricked it tbh - bit pathetic like, but they slowly converged on me and were getting up in my business. Not encountered that behaviour before.

[img] [/img]

Illegal to block a ROW like that IIRC

+1

molgrips - Member
I don't think cows are as agressive and likely to attack, are they?

Garry, we got surrounded like that staying in the lakes a few years back. The neighbour told us they were just curious. Still very disconcerting.

It's an urban myth that Bulls will always charge, and as they're colourblind it's [u][b]bullocks[/b][/u] about the wearing red too...

and some other information on what is and isn't allowed
http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/20/05/2014/144597/tips-on-staying-legal-with-bulls-and-cows-near-footpaths.htm

It's an urban myth that Bulls will always charge

I didn't say they would. I thought they were more likely to charge than cows, what with being full of testosterone and what not, but I added a question mark because I'm not that familiar with cattle.

llegal to block a ROW like that IIRC

Not quite

it would be illegal to place an intimidating sign, like "footpath closed, bull in field" or "dangerous bull, enter at your own risk" but nothing wrong with a warning that there was a bull in the field as in the picture above (as long as there was actually bull in the field, rather than just a sign to put people off using it)

"Beware of the bull" is a little bit dodgy perhaps - "bull in field" would be better

there are rules about age and breed of bulls, so no dairy bulls, and beef bulls must be accompanied by cows or heifers in fields/enclosures that are crossed by PROW.

The eternal rule with cattle jostling like above is to face towards them and stand your ground - they're just young and inquisitive, talk to them, stick your hand out and let them have a sniff - running away really does make it worse.

Bulls are dangerous (aggressive over territory) as are cows with calves (protective). They are more relaxed with people than with dogs which are a natural predator (think wolves). I grew up in the country and I would generally avoid fields with Bulls (and at that time I could run fast !)

it would be illegal to place an intimidating sign, like "footpath closed, bull in field" or "dangerous bull, enter at your own risk" but nothing wrong with a warning that there was a bull in the field as in the picture above (as long as there was actually bull in the field, rather than just a sign to put people off using it)

"Beware of the bull" is a little bit dodgy perhaps - "bull in field" would be better

I'd say more than a bit dodgy. What is the sign expecting an untrained person to do? Is it asking them to make some sort of judgment call as to if the bull is in a sufficiently good mood that it's ok to cross? It's not even a sign politely reminding the public to shut the gate to stop the bull escaping. It is simply an implied threat that the animal the farmer has put in the field could be dangerous. If it is actually dangerous or not is irrelevant - the message is effectively saying that the public right of way is not assuredly safe to cross.

To be honest even 'Bull in field' is wrong - "bull/sheep/pigs/cows/llamas in field - please put dogs on a lead and shut gate" has a purpose, but a blunt and 'bull in field' has implied danger, i.e. 'not safe to cross'.

+1

I don't understand the note.

Did the bull type it and refer to itself in the third person?
Or did the farmer type it and is notifying people of both the bull and the fact that the farmer lives in the field too?

I think some of those government subsidies the farmer will be getting need to be spent on going back to school.

the animal the farmer has put in the field could be dangerous.

Well, sorry to say, it could - would you prefer to pretend that it wasn't true? Its a big scary world out there and the countryside is a working landscape, Bulls can be dangerous, so can cows, so can lots of other species.

'Could' is not the same as 'is' or 'is known to be'!

HSE guidance on the precise wording 'beware of the bull" is mixed, more recent guidance says that you should 'avoid' the word 'beware' however older guidance saw nothing wrong with it, decades of Rights of way law have seen nothing wrong with the phrase, though more recently 'some' PROW officers have begun to say it 'could' be intimidating to 'some' people (largely based on the more recent HSE guidance) - However it would be wildly inaccurate to say it was illegal, 'not recommended' does not equate to illegal or unacceptable

If it is actually dangerous or not is irrelevant - the message is effectively saying that the public right of way is not assuredly safe to cross.

Well, to me as someone who grew up in the countryside, it says nothing more than 'take care' - by that I mean I wouldn't dream of taking a dog in there, but would be more than happy to walk through it,

Then again as someone who grew up in the countryside I wouldn't dream of taking a dog in a field full of cows with calves either, and that seems to happen all the time now, with predictable results! Townies have got a lot to answer for!

Maybe countryies should put better signs up to help the stupid townies out?

Perhaps they should stick to dedicated waymarked walking trails in forests until they've built up a bit of experience and enough knowledge to survive out there in the wild?

We could put a car park, cafe and walking shop there to help them enjoy their day out 😉

'Could' is not the same as 'is' or 'is known to be'!

Well, to me as someone who grew up in the countryside, it says nothing more than 'take care' - by that I mean I wouldn't dream of taking a dog in there, but would be more than happy to walk through it, then again as someone who grew up in the countryside I wouldn't dream of taking a dog in a field full of cows with calves either, and that seems to happen all the time now, with predictable results! Townies have got a lot to answer for!

And this (thankfully) is why I would suggest the sign is wrong. What you are saying here is that the interpretation of signage requires prior experience. Fortunately we are living in enlightened times where folk from the towns might actually want to access the countryside. The subtle nuances of what "beware" means are easily lost. A more proactive sign might go on to give advice to the public who have not been in that situation before as how to proceed whilst still being 'beware'.

Decades of common practice does not makes it right for current times.

The valve is aligned with the logo though, good to see standards being maintained. 🙂

I'll post the link again - not going to quote all of it but it's advice to farmers on this topic, it's quite informative
http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/20/05/2014/144597/tips-on-staying-legal-with-bulls-and-cows-near-footpaths.htm
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also people may need to accept that the countryside is a very large working environment that they have the wonderful benefit of being able to enjoy. At times it might not be that good or enjoyable but it's still free to access.

There's nothing wrong with putting a bull in a field with a ROW through (I live on a farm) in the correct circumstances. All recognised dairy breed bulls are not allowed in field with a public right of way at any time and beef bulls are banned unless they're accompanied by other cows or heifers.
I think the fact the farmer has put a sign up is a good thing, though just because it's a bull it doesn't mean it will give chase. I'd say young heifers and cows that have recently calved are potentially more dangerous to the public, I've had more than a few give chase when I've been rounding them to come in for milking!

Perhaps they should stick to dedicated waymarked walking trails in forests until they've built up a bit of experience and enough knowledge to survive out there in the wild?

And how do they get this knowledge without help? All it takes is a standard sign with a few bullet points.

people may need to accept that the countryside is a very large working environment that they have the wonderful benefit of being able to enjoy

Alternatively, farmers need to accept that the countryside is everyone's, they just have the opportunity to work in it 😉

I remember crossing fields with all sorts of livestock, including Bulls, when I was younger, both walking and Riding, I don't remember Farmers bothering to put up extra signage...

Very Seldom was there and issue, just because there's a Bull doesn't mean it's going to charge you...

The Farmer's simply trying to make people aware of a [i]potential[/i] risk, nowhere in the sign does He try to prohibit entry, re-route/block the ROW or threaten certain injury/death...

Treating ROW user's like grown-ups, inform them of a risk, let them make up their own minds how to proceed.

Crap Grammar, but relatively responsible, proportionate conduct IMO...

It's basic intimidation. No reason ever for any farmer to put a Bull in a field with a PROW going through it.

I rip these down and remove them.

Marko

And how do they get this knowledge without help? All it takes is a standard sign with a few bullet points.

Does your bike have a sticker like this on it?

[img] ?w=500[/img]

The Farmer's simply trying to make people aware of a potential risk, nowhere in the sign does He try to prohibit entry, re-route/block the ROW or threaten certain injury/death...

Treating ROW user's like grown-ups, inform them of a risk, let them make up their own minds how to proceed.

This!

Does your bike have a sticker like this on it:

No because it's my bike and I know all about the risks and issues. That's not my bull in that field, so I know nothing about it.

The Farmer's simply trying to make people aware of a potential risk

Only in the vaguest possible sense. He's not really said anything useful. He needs to say either "Keep out this bull is dangerous" or "This bull is fine, don't worry about it but don't go flicking its balls with rubber bands"

Even if PROW users know all about bulls, they won't necessarily know anything about that particular bull.

Never have a problem with bulls/cows when I ride at trail centres .

@marko - don't be daft, might be the only field he can use at that time.

Were people this blinkered about their rights of access in tbe past? The farmer has a right to use the land as much as we have a right to use a ROW. What we need to do is accept that the whole world doesn't revolve around "us" or "them", and accept that sometimes you can't have exactly what you want, exactly how you want it, just when you want it.

Well to give a little background on our situation, if I may..

We've got 2 Farms up in Harrogate, we have 130 herd of cattle and 260 (at last count) sheep and 1 Bull.
We have 6 footpaths running East/West and 1 North/South covering 6 of the 9 fields we have.
The Bull sleeps in a field at the bottom of a steep bank with no footpaths in/across and yet we still have walkers crossing the field to get a shortcut to the opposite bank and then a bridleway (that's part of the next Farm)
Anywhoo's Old Farmer MrBouy is a reet grumpy git and one encounter late last year with a walker and them crossing the Bull field ended up in Police hands.. MrBouy chased the walker off (waiving a bloody shotgun of all things, him having been rabbiting) and rightly walker person called the Plod.
All this quite rightly got pulled into court with MrBouy having his license taken away (about time) and we also got a warning about the Bull.
Seems it doesn't matter if the footpath does/doesn't cross the field if a Bull is in there or not, we were "in control" and should take "due dilligence" and advised to patrol the field on a regular basis and reinforce all the fences around the field (we did that). If the Bull is in with Cows breeding then we were told to move the Cows into the field with the Bull and not the other way around..
The Farm has been in the family for 6 generations, all farmers too so very experianced.
Seems the Law is catching up with the lack of due dilligence of old and replacing it with new guidance. I'm actually in favour of this, I feel, provided it causes no damage and angst to livestock, that all folk should be able to cross fields if on thier way to somewhere else.. What I wouldn't like is folks hanging around worrying livestock.
We don't really suffer with Dogs off leads, most who access the footpaths have been fine.

One more thing, we do have signs up, signs that state both "Bull in Field" and "Cattle in Field" with a "please be kind to our animals" strapline, have done for many years.

It's a concern, but I'd say if you feel intimidated by animals you can turn around and find another route through.

V8_shin_print - Member
The valve is aligned with the logo though, good to see standards being maintained.

8)

I don't think cows are as agressive and likely to attack, are they?

I got charged by one out running once. To be fair, she had her calf with her and I wanted to get past on a thin path.

She actually caught me a glancing blow with her head before setting up to charge again, giving me a chance to get past. Not something I wish to repeat.

Saying that, there's plenty of ROWs round here that cross fields with cattle in. I tend to walk or ride past very slowly in a calm, confident manner, and deliberately avoid going near any calves.

These signs are all much betterer:

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Molgrips, if you really want that level of certainty regarding livestock's Mood, then outdoors probably isn't for you...

I believe Bulls can actually detect IT professionals by smell and The outcome can be messy, They don't generally charge, it's much worse, they ask you to sort out their iffy router...