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That's the point, it's about you challenging you but in relation to the limits of what is possible, so comparing yourself to others is essential in determining those peaks of performance. Like in running, in cycling the great thing is that this is relatively pure in terms of human performance (drugs/ cheating/ and small variances in bike technology aside) - compared at least to other forms of 'racing' cars/boats etc..where equipment can be more dominant.
Ebikes change that aspect of cycling massively.
Given e-bikes cut out at 15mph you may just have come across someone fast.
No, that is not possible. The top 10 is made up of the fastest people (who log times on Strava) around the forest. The top ten ranges from 9.3mph to 10.3 mph and I posted 10.8mph. Just went back into Strava and checked and I now have the KoM as flagged the ride earlier after reading this thread and the rider who was hitting 16mph is now second with 10mph so that must have been their second best time (without using an eBike I would guess)
I had better get down the pub and brag to everyone I have another KoM...
i exported a .gpx file from another package into strava a while back and it imported the ride at the average speed of the ride. everywhere. which was very flattering uphill and bagged me a few KoM's but not so flattering downhill.
deleted it once i'd worked out what had happened.
surely we should be adopting a “steam gives way to sail” principle for e-bikes?
That doesn't work though - pedal bikes are still powered just like rowing boats don't get priority over 'powered' boats. Or do you have a purely wind-controlled bike? 😉
There is one spurious section on a local mtb ride of ours that runs sort of parallel at times with a road, I would say parts of it are at least 2/300m away from the road, however my old kom was taken by a bastid roadie blasting down the tarmac. If he and quite a few of the others had actually done it at that speed I would have bought them a 🤴 myself 😂
Or do you have a purely wind-controlled bike?
I've purely wind powered posting about bikes. Does that count?
@wrightyson one of the things which amuses me (and very much confirms my "it's only me I'm competing with" approach to strava) is how bonkers some of the segments are.
I ride the same route to work and back most days is rare I get the same segments logged 3 days out of 5,i pick up concurrent ones, overlapping ones, and so on but today for instance I logged 11 of the 18 different segments on my commute. Yesterday picked up 13 and 3 of those weren't on today's log, despite my route being to with a fraction of a lane width either side of yesterday's.
I ride the same route to work and back most days is rare I get the same segments logged 3 days out of 5,i pick up concurrent ones, overlapping ones, and so on but today for instance I logged 11 of the 18 different segments on my commute. Yesterday picked up 13 and 3 of those weren’t on today’s log, despite my route being to with a fraction of a lane width either side of yesterday’s.
if you click the bit at the bottom of the segment list that says 'don't see the segment you are looking for', it'll give a list of all the partial matches, and the reasons for not matching.
Judging by some replies on here from the e-mtb fanboys, my assumption that E-mtb’s are attractive to the selfish me me generation who don’t give f@#$% avout anyone else is correct.
Sweeping assumption-tastic there fella.
if you click the bit at the bottom...
Indeed, I'm not bothered per se, just very much reinforces my opinion that its only so much "use" and getting het up about how other folk use it and with what bike etc is a bit daft since the only data you can view objectively is your own and that of the folk you were riding with.
I tend to look at Strava times (on uphill segments) as a rough guide to what I should be aiming for if I'm going well - so if the top 10% is stuffed with ebikers, there is no chance of me getting in there.
On some of the segments around here the top 10s are hilarious - leader (by 30 seconds on a 4 minute segment) will be someone with 59 miles this year who is like lightning on the uphills, and mediocre at best on everything else, second is some chubber with similar mileage, third is someone doing 3 peaks cyclocross training, fourth is some old fella with pics of his Trek Superfly attached, with loads of genuinely quick local guys making up the numbers.
I tend to flag if it's obvious from the pics or the description, in the hope that Strava will nudge a few of them towards classifying them as an ebike ride in future.
t’s about you challenging you but in relation to the limits of what is possible, so comparing yourself to others is essential
The simple solution I guess is to look at the times of names you recognise as genuine speedy and ignore all the randoms. Round here it's generally Alex Pilkington or Pete Keron...
I know that there are folks around us specifically going out on ebikes to get fastest times on segments. I also know there are some people that will be riding the overgate mtb challenge in a few weeks on an ebike because it doesnt have an ebike category and they can come in the top 50 or whatever.
the issue was that whilst i was actually riding up the hill and these are narrow bridleways, it isn’t a great deal of fun having someone constantly buzzing your back wheel and wanting to get past
So why mention the fact he was on an e-Bike then? Just inconsiderate riding surely?
you should be able to click buttons for group/solo, wet/dry, night/day, etc etc
That's actually more important on road than off, as on flat segments being in a group makes an enormous difference.
A few of the regular top 10s on my local trails are STWers. Bastards.
Increasingly these days Strava is a means of measuring my decline 😢
Knowing that I'm just outside the top ten on a segment can be a remarkable spur to put some effort in but generally I'll be in the top 10% or so for any given segment and as Martin says, round here the top ten is usually full of the usual suspects like Alex P and Paul Oldham.
As above - group riding (done correctly) on road makes a massive difference. There's a local segment from Rylstone down to the Craven Heifer just outside Skipton "Blast down South" it's called. My best time in a group is 7.5mins but my best solo time is at least a minute slower, possibly more.
"How to deal with E-Bikes on Strava Segments"
buy one and have some fun
@molgrips i mention they were on e-bikes as i would hope there is an expectation when you're on one, that there is a good chance when you are going up a long climb, that you may well be quicker than others, and that in having that expectation you'd have the manners to realise or appreciate the harder effort the person not on an e-bike is having to put into the climb to get up it, and therefore treat them with a little consideration.
As stated i have no issue whatsoever with e-bikes, there just needs to be some consideration by those using them especially on long events/ climbs, that others may be slower than them and be considerate to the fact.
A few of the regular top 10s on my local trails are STWers. Bastards
Rubbish, no one here actually rides a bike.
I know that there are folks around us specifically going out on ebikes to get fastest times on segments. I also know there are some people that will be riding the overgate mtb challenge in a few weeks on an ebike because it doesnt have an ebike category and they can come in the top 50 or whatever.
This makes me sad. But not as sad as the folk doing it.
Rubbish, no one here actually rides a bike.
I have my moments, did I mention my 🤴's earlier?
I've got my son in to it of late, he's 14 and I've made it perfectly clear it's not an indication of a lot. However he does like to see how he's beating adults down certain sections and he genuinely uses it as a tool to time runs on sections we session often, he can then play with different lines etc the next time he rides.
In the real world he's been mid table when racing for real this year so far, so that keeps his head in check, he's giving 18 months away to most riders in his age group so hopefully he can improve on that.
I have an Ebike.
When i go out to the forest i get left for dead by several of the (admittedly) younger and considerably fitter guys in my riding group.
So I’m of the opinion that a young, fit rider is quicker than an Ebike.
Certainly, when i was in my 20s, I could go much quicker than i can go on my Ebike nowadays.
I’m 50 btw.
I don’t use strava, although I have an account.
If i did, being beaten wouldn’t bother me at all, I’m not proud, but i can understand why someone might be annoyed at being ‘beaten’ by someone with a battery.
But ultimately, unless they admit it, you’ll never actually know if they did or not.
I accept, of course that it’s all utterly pointless.
Happy trails folks.
I have my moments, did I mention my 🤴’s earlier?
You did, but by way of comparison, facebook says I've got 100s of friends, and strava is just Facebook for cyclists isn't it? 😉
But have you got any 🤴's.....
Dry prime ground conditions, Tail winds, TT bikes. drafting, riding in a bunch, Ebikes, heading out especially to target one segment?
there's not a whole lot of difference really.
Strava is rarely a level playing field. If you want that. race for real.
There are guys who come over here from the City especially to hunt KOMs on dull bridleways/shared paths all lycra'd up on carbon CX bikes. Kinda odd but whatever.
it's not worth moaning about.
Old ladies in cars pass all the time! You must be beside yourself! They dont even record themselves on strava. Cheats!
But have you got any 🤴’s…..
Seems there's no prizes for being the minceiest of mince core.
(i just went to check what the top times were over one of the climbs on my commute and it seems to have been cheated today, someone clocking 60kph average over 1k up hill, I doubt that'll stay. 2nd is 36kph over the same I struggle to do that on the flat!)
Dry prime ground conditions, Tail winds, TT bikes. drafting, riding in a bunch, Ebikes, heading out especially to target one segment?
there’s not a whole lot of difference really.
Not a whole lot of difference? All fair game - except for the EBike. Was looking at Chris Froome's stats recently, the VAM figure is interesting (Vertical Ascent Metres per hour), his KOM's for a sustained 30min climb are around 1600 VAM. I'll be happy with anything over 1000VAM. A guy took a KOM off me offroad and his VAM was around 1500 for 20mins, which raised suspicion. Thats bonkers fast, really surprised me, possibly de-restricted I suppose. From comments above it seems ebikers get some satisfaction out of this, which is weird as it's not the rider doing most of that work it's a motor, so where does the sense of achievement come from other than hurting Stravaists fragile Ego's.
As stated i have no issue whatsoever with e-bikes, there just needs to be some consideration by those using them especially on long events/ climbs, that others may be slower than them and be considerate to the fact.
Same consideration that everyone needs everywhere tho.
Hmm, hadn't considered VAM as I wasn't sure what the hell it was (you can tell I'm deadly serious about all this!). Not many climbs where I've taken an hour until I remembered I just beat the hour for Puig Major on Majorca which has 826 metres of ascent so I'd say my maximum VAM was in that sort of ball-park.
At the other end of the scale my wife and I were out touring and on one climb I got a puncture so fixed that and thought "I might be last on Strava!" Except I wasn't, I was next to last 😕
I remember flagging one Strava KOM as dubious. It was the one going up Five Rise Locks in Bingley - the KOM time for going up was faster than the KOM for the descent segment! Looking at the activity the guy had been heading down the way but the trace just went weird with him apparently going down, up then down again. I suspect the GPS/Strava just got a couple of errant pings and interpreted them as him going up the ramp.
Was looking at Chris Froome’s stats recently
the VAM figure is interesting
really?
Vag interests me but I've genuinely no idea or interest in what vam even is.
cyclists baffle me.
I remember flagging one Strava KOM as dubious. It was the one going up Five Rise Locks in Bingley – the KOM time for going up was faster than the KOM for the descent segment! Looking at the activity the guy had been heading down the way but the trace just went weird with him apparently going down, up then down again. I suspect the GPS/Strava just got a couple of errant pings and interpreted them as him going up the ramp.
Quality of life restored.
Pwew!
Only reason I want an ebike is for strava ha ha ha
VAM= rate of climbing. You can clearly see it when viewing Strava on a desktop, but not so visible in the app. Most Garmin units can display it as a metric either instantly or averaged over 30seconds. For those of us who like seeing how quickly we can haul our asses up mountains it's useful, but VAG's are cool to.
I'm more bothered about ****ts cutting corners and putting multiple lines in on established trails to make not overly technical trails simpler. If you're that fussed, get a bloody road bike and ride in a straight line.
“So the EBikers don’t compete on the existing segments, they have to make new one’s. Makes sense now. That seems like a Strava flaw they need to rectify- surely would’nt be hard to seperate the data into two streams per segment as they do it for QOM/KOM anyway.”
Considering I set up about half the local strava segments (years ago!) there was no way I was going to set them all up again for e-bikes. And it won’t let you make such short segments nowadays, even though we have plenty of short steep trails that track fairly accurately.
So on my ebike I just set my rides to private so I don’t show on leader boards. I can see my times if I want to but I’m not messing up the non-e results. It’s a bit annoying because I ride the ebike both turned on and off and if I break a DH PR or get higher up the leaderboard it would be nice to be there but then again I don’t care that much nowadays!
It shows how fit some XC riders are because even with the motor on it’s not easy to beat KOMs.
cyclists baffle me.
Why do you spend time on a cycling forum then ??
So I’m of the opinion that a young, fit rider is quicker than an Ebike.
On the road, yes. On the flat and down hill off road, yes. On an off road climb where even fit young rider is averaging 11mph then no, not at all.
I am reasonably fit (but not young) and even on a fairly gentle 3 mile off road segment with mostly climbs I was struggling to keep with an eBike and then when it got steep for the last 1/4 mile I simply couldn't keep up. I am top 20 on that segment out of 1500 riders and the guy on the eBike was not putting in much effort for any part of the 3 miles.
Cool...
entertainment taxi.
Plus many here aren't "cyclists" either.
From comments above it seems ebikers get some satisfaction out of this, which is weird as it’s not the rider doing most of that work it’s a motor, so where does the sense of achievement come from other than hurting Stravaists fragile Ego’s.
What other reason do we need? 😉
FWIW, I always log my rides as eBike and I do find it frustrating that a) I can’t compare them to the rides I did on my non-eBike and b) there are so many segments missing.
Plus many here aren’t “cyclists” either.
E-cyclists?
V-cyclists?
Bike riderists?
E-bike riderists?
V-vike riderists?
etc.
Why do you spend time on a cycling forum then ??
I thought it was called Singletrackworld?
You’re thinking about RaphaBibtightsGravelbikeBromptonworld
I should add that I live in a very hilly area, and unlike most parts of the country there are solid 30-45mins offroad climbs in almost every direction, some with sustained sections well over 10% gradient. It's here that Strava works well offroad on a climb as the margin of error has less of a percentage impact compared to a climb of just a few minutes. And I find it more fun doing these than Strava on the road where it's just a suffer fest, there's more skills/technique involved on an offroad climb. Works great- not just for roadies.
Got me thinking with this rate of climbing thing- as it's these slow speed climbs that e-bikes are exaggerated- with an example of the fastest times up Alpe-de Huez being around the 40 minutes mark (most fastest times being juiced up to eyeballs 37min Mr Pantani) thats a 1135metre climb so climbing rate about 1850 vertical metres per hour. Terrain and mild lack of air pressure ignored, if you could maintain that rate it puts you from Everest Base Camp to Summit in under 2 hours - or from sea level to summit in under 5 hours. Bad analogies aside, thats an incredible rate of ascent for a human powered vehicle.
So an e-bike in these situations with an ability to scoot up things at not far off that kind of rate must feel superhuman.....so e-bikers, how long can your battery last with current technology at a steep climbing rate before it goes pop? How high-how fast can you go with the limits of current technology?
kerley, like I said, when I go riding with my semi regular group, there is one guy who leaves the rest of us, everywhere.
we aren't on road at all, he's quicker up and down.
in fact, I'd say the only place I could perhaps catch him would be on a long road section, as my bike has been chipped.
the guy is a Scottish champion admittedly, however, I believe my point stands, a young, fit rider, is quicker than an ebike.
I am a strava addict.
There you are, I said it.
It gets me out, it gives me motivation, and it gives me specific targets for my training. I no longer race and I need to get my kicks from somewhere, and this is it. Simples.
So, when some scally rocks up on his ebike and deliberately wipes out my KOM's on a ride, and then brags with his mates on Strava about taking the KOM's (with pictures of the bike, no less), you bet it p1$$es me off!
Even worse are the ones who leave their strava on when they get the train home after a ride, because there are segments in the forest that run alongside the train tracks.....oh yes, this is a real thing! 68mph KOM's on some of my local trails!
But not to worry - I flag all of the above, because it makes me feel better.
nowt wrong with enjoying strava, I mean why TF would you do something you don't enjoy right?
I mean, its not my cup of tea, but live and let live.
the guy is a Scottish champion admittedly, however, I believe my point stands, a young, fit rider, is quicker than an ebike.
Yes, I said that an eBike on flat and down hill is not faster but again, on a 3 mile climb where the fastest riders in the area are going at under 15mph average speed then the eBike is quicker. It is only uphill where eBikes are taking any KoMs.