[Closed] Helvellyn. Hill Runner v MTBer, who wins?....

Top Gear special make it close  and interesting very contrived pointless tv

That was ****ing annoying to watch.....

A few weeks back we were over taken shortly before the summit by a guy running up, the ascent was ~900m. Met him up top, exchanged a few hallos and off went.
Just a wee ended the trail this guy comes charging past.

I'm pretty certain he set off up the hill a long time after us. This was an afternoon /after work ride, so we weren't dilly dallying due to sundown. His overall time was definitely shorter than ours. He was probably mid 50s and way too keen for my liking.

I was doing the SDW with some friends, and near the end, at one of those long draggy climbs, where we were barely able to turn the pedals, a woman came past us, gave us a cherry hello!, held open the gate and then just disappeared up the hill.

We all just looked at each other in knackered disbelief.

She had that way of running that only a few people seem to have, that makes it look totally natural and even enjoyable, and fast. Really fast.

Oh, yes, and that video is unbelievably annoying. I had to switch it off.

Crabbit old men are crabbit. 😂

I can’t see how any mtb’er would be half as quick as a decent runner.

Oh wait let’s actually not make it a race and send them completely different routes 🙄

I'd tend to agree tbh.

Jesus, there are some miserable gits on here.
Two young people exercising and having a laugh in the great outdoors on a big hill.
Bah!

The dog won.

a good fell runner will piss all over a mtb rider, up and down. IMHO

Hill runner will almost always be quicker on the ascent with the exception of low angled well surfaced paths.

The descent would be more of a mixed bag, runner on some terrain biker on other. For example I'd be pretty confident of beating a bike down off Ben Nevis but less so off Ben Lomond and certainly not off Skiddaw!

Another thing to note:

Fell runner has no pack.
MTB has a pack.

That’s a big weight disadvantage right there..

I’d wager if they sent a pro fell runner & say Nino up that hill (on the same route) the MTB (dog) would have won by more.

Interesting & fun (!), but hardly conclusive!

Agree. That is indeed a stupid vid. Looks to me like the bike route was probably the optimal route for a bike (the only bridle way?). But up Swirral Edge and down Striding Edge (think that's what she did?) is definitely not the quickest way up and down Helvellyn for a runner.

Also, runner suspiciously unflustered and non-sweaty after that.

I’d wager if they sent a pro fell runner & say Nino up that hill (on the same route) the MTB (dog) would have won by more.

It would depend entirely on route chosen. The bike wouldn't win on the route they sent the runner.

The best way to settle it would be to time Rob Jebb running and biking the same route.

Great idea - very poorly executed. I don't think the ending was contrived, you hear someone off camera tell her she's won.

Checked out the runner and she's pretty decent. 1:57:57 in Ben Nevis race last year making her 6th woman.

You’d have to have a route that didn’t favour one or the other unfairly - not knowing Helvellyn that well I can’t day what that would be..

we did the fell runner vs mtb'ers fell race in hayfield last year. A bike won comfortably on time. Same course with staggered start. The mtb'er in question was nick craig who went past us on the 1st climb like we were standing still 😀

You're all behaving as though this is purporting to be some kind of empirical double-blind controlled scientific test, when in fact it's entire purpose is give you something to watch whilst you're on the loo.

You’re all behaving as though this is purporting to be some kind of empirical double-blind controlled scientific test, when in fact it’s entire purpose is give you something to watch whilst you’re on the loo

No we're not. We're having a light hearted discussion about the ins and outs of such an exercise. Which is pointless but fun.

It's just a bit of fun. In any 'race' where you aren't comparing like-for-like the course and conditions are always going to favour one competitor over another.

Ever since a pub bet in 1980 the Neuadd Arms has been running the Man v Horse race. Generally the winner is decided by subtle differences in route choice. I thought that at one time it was Man v Horse v Bike but this article doesn't confirm that: https://www.green-events.co.uk/?mvh_main

There was a man v bike v horse race for a few years in the late 80s/early 90s, it was regularly featured in mbuk im pretty sure.
Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_versus_Horse_Marathon

Having spent half a lifetime fell running and some 20yrs biking I'd say its all down to the routes. Good fell runners climb a lot faster than a biker on most terrain whilst a good downhill biker would be faster down a track like the one in the video. However most good fell runners would have been 'off piste' on the decent using a direct line across the fell.
A simple comparison might be Skiddaw. The fell race starts in Fitz park and follows the pathway to the summit and returns the same way. Fell race record time 1Hr 2mins.

Found it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_versus_Horse_Marathon

thought that at one time it was Man v Horse v Bike

There was a man v horse v bike one somewhere. From memory Tim Gould was the first cyclist to win and he got a big prize because a bookies put it up and it accumulated every year.

Left to its own devices, the dog would have won that by a country canine mile. No question.

Up a mountain, a fell runner would have it. Round a 15 mile loop in the Peak District, the bike would have it.

We did a race like this last year up Helvellyn - same route, runner and bikes up and down Sticks Pass from Glenridding. We were quicker down on the bikes but the runner completely smashed us, even with the long access road to the youth hostel for us to gain time on both ways.

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Best of 3?

An MTB biased route, a runner biased route & one that favours neither particularly?

It's probably impossible to prove conclusively one way or the other!

This is partly why I wanted to sack off mountain biking for mountain running -- the latter is quicker and a hell of a lot cheaper. (Turns out my tendons just break running though...)

I think you actually need a surprisingly tame trail before a good mtb rider becomes quicker than a good runner (assuming you start at the same elevation as you finish that is)

That said, worth comparing the Yorkshire 3 Peaks times:

CX record: 2:52, 62km
Running record: 2:30, 39km

http://www.bingleyharriers.co.uk/events/harriers-vs-cyclists/

This is a very good event, mixture of terrain (most days you will see folk riding big travel mobs on the same route) Most years runners win it, but cyclist have on the years the route has been dry. Fast cyclists are always on CX bikes, not mtb.

Weight is always an issue going up hill. I reckon going the legal way up and down Helvellyn a CX would be quicker overall than mtb

3 peaks is no way comparable the routes are not remotely similar. However quite rightly runners say why would you be daft enough to enter the 3 peaks CX just to carry a bike around when you can run and not have to carry a bike

3 peaks is no way comparable the routes are not remotely similar.

I've done both a few times and I agree. My best running time though is about 16mins quicker than my best CX time.

However quite rightly runners say why would you be daft enough to enter the 3 peaks CX just to carry a bike around

According to the website and I'd concur only 6-8k of the bike course is unrideable.

Mtb wins every time, but how long it takes is irrelevant 😉

Mtb versus kayak.

Warning, this was long before Gopro hypersmooth tech 😂