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I'd send the bike back and get a refund then chase for reimbursement of the postage costs via small claims court. Then tell us who the seller is so we can all avoid them in future.
I thought there was a lower limit on a small claims court action?
I'd get the refund before sending the bike back.
If you went through paypal then deal with it through them - they'll organise the money and reserve funds etc.
If you don't want to name the seller yet then a simple picture of the bike as advertised, followed and the bike as received should be sufficient to prove your case on here. And satisfy my curiosity. 🙂
scotroutes - thanks but I've been on here and posting on and off for many years 😉
I paid by bank payment, I trusted the seller, talked to him first, checked him out, seemed a decent guy, knowledgeable about bikes etc. The kind of guy you'd be pleased to buy high end gear from.
As for all the faults/problems I pointed out, he simply says he didn't know about them and it seemed to ride ok when he last rode it a few weeks prior to sending.
The only legal protection you really have with second-hand goods is "as described." Seems pretty clear to me, based on the one-sided evidence presented so far at least, that it was not as described.
STW doesn't have a returns policy as it's merely providing a place for people to post adverts like the boards you have in supermarkets. So let's look at eBay's returns policy:
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/buy/return-item.html#process
[i]If the item was not as described, the seller is responsible for paying return postage costs. If a buyer changes their mind about a purchase and wants to return it, they may be required to pay the postage costs depending on the seller's return policy.[/i]
I'd be wanting my money back if it were me, or a partial refund (and keep the bike) to reflect the disparity.
[quote=guglielmo ]I paid by bank payment, I trusted the seller, talked to him first, checked him out, seemed a decent guy, knowledgeable about bikes etc. The kind of guy you'd be pleased to buy high end gear from.
As for all the faults/problems I pointed out, he simply says he didn't know about them and it seemed to ride ok when he last rode it a few weeks prior to sending.
See, if that was me, I'd rather do the refund and resolve the issue before it got to this. never mind the bad publicity, I'd just feel bad about mis-describing something!
jonnyboi - I'll hold fire for now, but will put up a list of the changes and faults in a bit.
To be fair then you are on your own. You have a couple of options.
1) Tell the seller you are pointing out the error of his ways on the forum and will return the bike once he has transferred the money back to you. (you paid before he sent it to you) Give him the chance to do the right thing
2) Suck it up and keep the bike
3) Send it back under his terms.
Personally i would go down the first route. Tell him what you are doing, post his details on here and give him a chance to reply before actually publicly vilifying him/her. I personally would like to know who it is so i can be wary at a later date.
Cougar - yes, thanks, and totally agree on all counts!!
Well, yes, you would. (-:
Anyone interested in a sweepstake on who the seller is?
i would 'say sold as seen' if the buyer has a photo up unless they state what parts will not be on it (seems to be the consensus of every-one on here) would ask for complete refund of money as they are in the wrong. if the seller does not agree youll just have to suck it up (and name and shame). although fairly new to the forum i was under the same impression as the OP, most folk seem genuine on here, guess there can be tw@s in all aspects of life
a known, respectable seller.
a seemingly decent, long standing STW member and active poster.
sold tens of thousands of pounds worth bikes on STW and eBay over 12 years of mountain biking without any problems or complaints.
seemed a decent guy, knowledgeable about bikes etc. The kind of guy you'd be pleased to buy high end gear from.
Not me then
Anyone interested in a sweepstake on who the seller is?
As soon as I read this bit:
sold tens of thousands of pounds worth bikes on STW and eBay over 12 years of mountain biking without any problems or complaints.
There was one name that sprung to mind. It'll be interesting to see if I was right 😆
Name and shame please, seller sounds like a right ****, and one to avoid in the future.
[quote=notmyrealname ]There was one name that sprung to mind. davidtaylforth? Methinks he doth protest too much...
Heh! It could've been me
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/has-anyone-successfully-scammed-a-classifieds-user-on-here
I'm the seller here, so you can flame away.
The photos used were for when I first built the bike (only a few months ago, but were using some parts (saddle (SLR Road) and skewer (XTR) from my road bike)). The saddle was later replaced with a Specialised Henge Comp and Bontrager Skewer and that's how it was ridden
The fork was a genuine mistake - it was sold to me as a 140mm Fox Kashima 29er fork. I think I added CTD (to the description) even though the pictures clearly show RLC. Still, not as advertised and my mistake, though not an intentional one.
I did change the tyres, (Specialised Purgatory 2.3/2.2 > Kenda Nevegal 2.2 DTC JTS) but again, this was over a month ago and the bike has been ridden several times since then. I never noticed cracking, but then, I've never through to check.
The bolts were swapped as I've not ridden it with those bolts as they're only 10mm in length and look great for photo's but were swapped immediately. I intended to buy some replacement Ti bolts of appropriate length but never go around to it. The sale was a reluctant and rushed one.
None of this is in dispute and I've admitted it's my error and my fault.
In addition, the buyer wants the pedals pictured (I've never been held to this in a bike sale...ever) another stem (I never mentioned the stem length, but did intimate that the bike fitted me perfectly with an 80mm stem) as the 100mm one is too long, but 90mm will apparently do, replacement pads for the brakes, new bearings for the wheel (less than 200 miles, but have been sat for a year...so maybe), new bearings for the 60mile old BB. All of which I've agreed to.
In addition, the buyer also wants an additional £350 returned to him as a partial refund to cover the fork, a brake service and rebuild and a new front rotor as the old one is too thin... Coupled with all of the other parts, this equate to an almost £550 refund/cost. I think this is too much. I've agreed to both all the parts requested plus a partial refund of £150 (enough for a fork service, brake rebuild, new front floating rotor) or a full refund, but the £350 + parts is too much, I’d rather refund, repair and resell than sell the bike for an equivalent of £650.
I have never objected to a refund, nor have I dodged any questions or communication. The only things I've offered serious objection to are the pedals and the cost of the partial refund.
The sticking point is the shipping. I didn't want to ship the bike, I offered collection or meeting up. He said that he received “preferential rates for shipping and that If I could go and get a box from Halfords, he would arrange for it to be collected and shipped”. I agreed - I shouldn't have.
My mistake was listing it in a rush, I never intended to be in any way duplicitous.
As for the comments of trader - certainly not. Serial bike swapper/part whore – guilty. Is £10+k really a lot in bikes these days?
You should offer return postage and refund.
You can send a bike via send it now for 15 quid. Toss a coin to see who pays it or split the cost and move on.
life too short.
I once bought a bike that had a Brooks Ti Swift in the pics. Bargain fir £200 I thought! Arrived with a Childs gel saddle and the seller was surprised when I was peeved! Full refund plus return postage was offered.
I guess you realise your ad was shite. But lol at this bit. Do you do bike fits aswell 😉
In addition, the buyer wants the pedals pictured (I've never been held to this in a bike sale...ever) another stem (I never mentioned the stem length, but did intimate that the bike fitted me perfectly with an 80mm stem) as the 100mm one is too long, but 90mm will apparently do, replacement pads for the brakes, new bearings for the wheel (less than 200 miles, but have been sat for a year...so maybe), new bearings for the 60mile old BB. All of which I've agreed to
Looks like the seller's profile picture is quite apt!
Never a dull day here 😀
I have.ctk - Member
You should offer return postage and refund.
ctk - Member
I once bought a bike that had a Brooks Ti Swift in the pics. Bargain fir £200 I thought! Arrived with a Childs gel saddle and the seller was surprised when I was peeved! Full refund plus return postage was offered.
Not quite the same - The Henge with the bike is actually a more expensive saddle (£70 vs £65 for the SLR) - I only swapped it as the SLR is now on my Road bike as it was bloody uncomfortable on the rather burly Litespeed.
Hicksy - Member
Looks like the seller's profile picture is quite apt!
It seemed appropriate for the context.
ampthill - Member
Never a dull day here
Indeed. Was anyone right in the sweepstake?
Daffy - you admit your ad was misleading - just refund the bloke and get the bike back and relist with a better Advert.
Best profile ever (under the circumstances)
"Leg it Rodders !!"
[quote=tjagain ]Daffy - you admit your ad was misleading - just refund the bloke and get the bike back and relist with a better Advert.
[quote=Daffy ]
I have.ctk - Member
You should offer return postage and refund.
Was anyone right in the sweepstake?
Are you davidtaylforths other userid?
To be fair to daffy most of what he says above is about right although my £350 partial refund suggestion did include the value of the missing Time ATAC pedals, fork service and bushings, shot hub bearing replacement, time/cost to remove sheared bolt from hub, brake rebuild, lower fork model difference etc.
I think maybe we are getting somewhere now although the apologies/admittances weren't apparent in our earlier messages.
I do believe it was down to him rushing it and not checking stuff properly rather than trying to rip me off. Although I can't quite get the "have this lovely steel spesh instead of the nasty SLR Titanium, nice sir" thought process when swapping saddles for instance...
But I'm hopeful we will sort it fairly, with daffy covering all postage costs if the bike goes back, or an agreed partial refund amount so I can sort the problems and ride the thing if it stays. That's all I ever wanted. So please reserve judgment/flaming until we've sorted it like gents.
But no doubt, swapping stuff out without agreement is not on, regardless.
Indeed. Was anyone right in the sweepstake?
If mental entries count, then yes 🙂
Is there a way to visually tell that a bolt is titanium? How does one do that?
But no doubt, swapping stuff out without agreement is not on, regardless
I'd have to agree with this. Photos form part of the implied contract of sale (IMHO if not legally) and therefore should be accurate or stated where any exclusions apply.
But offering full refund and return is reasonable in terms of resolving the issues.
seller sounds like a right ****
Ha
hold a magnet up to the monitor?Is there a way to visually tell that a bolt is titanium? How does one do that?
IMO, sale item should be the thing in the picture unless you specifically state otherwise. Pedals included.
Codybrennan - haha years of training, you just know. But some Ti bolts are really the least of the problem, and in hindsight maybe a bit picky, but I was just so peeved at the unmentioned saddle/tyres/skewer/pedals swaps/omissions and different travel/model fork etc.
Anyways I'm sure we'll get it sorted. As many have said life's too short and as MTBers we need to be making love not war.
At least it's given us all a new person not to buy from in the future....
newrobdob - I'm not sure that's fair just yet, as I said it felt a bit turbulent earlier but I think it will be resolved fairly.
I will of course update, I've never had any intention of causing anyone hassle or trouble, I only wanted some opinions on what was just, and if I was right to feel peeved.
I think it'll be ok as the last email I had from daffy seemed a genuine and sensible one. And again, he has never been a scammer or anything, it was just whether or not he should pay the costs if it goes back, or agree a partial refund to sort. I'm sure one or the other will happen soon.
So leave Del alone for now!
At least it's given us all a new person not to buy from in the future....
I don't know. Seems like a cock up, not dishonesty. Buyers posts seem to back that up. Seller seems willing to sort it, they're just quibbling on the details. The only thing I'm disappointed about is the lack of stubbornness/hole digging that proved so entertaining with a certain set of brakes. This is fizzling out like a John Grisham novel.
Oh and I do believe him when he says it was the rushing of the sale/ad etc that's caused the problems, and I'm sure this is the exception rather than the norm for his sales on here.
Have you two made up yet ?
Christ, pick up the bloody phone & sort it out.
Life's too short. You refund him, you send it back & both of you split the delivery fees.
Your Dad will bang your bloomin heads together when he gets home. And you can tidy those bloody bedrooms up before I come up them stairs....
What have I missed? Any hobnobs left?
Quite an entertaining read that - cheers 😉
Shouldn't let him get away with it. He will keep on doing it if he gets away with it once.I'd of been round there, got money back , then on forums to Name and shame him . I been there some bloke changed all stickers on forks to show far superior model, then swore he didn't know, My arse. Got money back, no way I wasn't going to get it one way or another. Completely put me off buying used. Problem is mate if your nice they will walk over you. Don't be a victim.
Mb51 - haha no it's not quite that bad, fraud is a different level to a rushed description, some honest mistakes and a few maintenance/condition issues.
If anyone cares we are getting along ok and I'm sure a treaty will be signed soon. All weapons are idle for now although I think Trump is wanting to nuke both of us, perhaps his most intelligent thought to date.
. Perhaps the OP just isn't as epic as you .Shouldn't let him get away with it. He will keep on doing it if he gets away with it once.I'd of been round there, got money back , then on forums to Name and shame him . I been there some bloke changed all stickers on forks to show far superior model, then swore he didn't know, My arse. Got money back, no way I wasn't going to get it one way or another. Completely put me off buying used. Problem is mate if your nice they will walk over you. Don't be a victim.