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This will be an awesome build!
Anyone spotted a torque setting for the rear sliding dropouts?
Can't see one anywhere. Just thought I'd ask before emailing pipedream.
My own swapping a frame story took me from a medium Pace RC127 to a large RC627.
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Old 127
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New 627
Not had a proper ride yet, due to being struck with the Covid, but it feels much more spacious.
“ seems like moxie is slacker HA, shorter seat tube (big deal for me), steeper seat angle, shorter chain stays and lower BB than the Bfemax (reach numbers are similar)”
I spent a while looking into this (and there are probably posts from me on STW about this) but if I recall correctly with the same fork on both the BFeMAX has a slightly slacker head angle, slacker seat angle, higher BB, similar reach and slightly longer chainstays (but the Moxie’s are adjustable to a lot shorter).
The review on bikeradar shows them side on with 150 and 160 forks respectively which helped me compare visually as the BFeMAX chart is with 25% sag on 120-160mm fork lengths but the Moxie with no sag on a 140mm fork so the numbers are pretty confusing.
The Moxie seat tube angle at pedalling height is less steep (in a good way) than the chart claims because the seat tube has quite a big bend in it.
With a 140mm fork on the BFeMAX and 160mm on the Moxie the front ends are v similar but the Moxie is still lower with a steeper seat angle.
The Forge was another top choice and it’s very similar to the Moxie but the BB is lower.
Anyone spotted a torque setting for the rear sliding dropouts?
@chrisdw I asked the same question on their Facebook owners group when I got mine. The response was, IIRC, 25Nm. For me, that seemed a lot to put through a 5mm hex bolt and I replaced with 6mm. I also leave the set screws butted up. However folk don't seem to have an issue with the dropouts so it's probably just me.
Edit: I'll try to find the post but I'm not really a Facebook user and it's a long time ago so I'm not confident. You'd be quicker joining the group and asking there. It's often Pipedream themselves responding.
Typical torque for an A2 stainless bolt is about 5 or 6Nm isn't it? 25 sounds like a lot?
The reccomended torque on my RSD Middlechild Ti sliding dropout bolts is 17 - 20 nm. They are the same shape as the Pipedream dropouts and use the same bolts if that helps.
I rounded out my original bolts with a knackered socket on my torque wrench, so I replaced them with Pipedream bolts. The Pipedream bolts seem just as soft as my originals. You need to get a good allen key not to round them out at 20NM torque. I'm using a Wera hex.
I ran a Pace RC627 as a single speed but the dropout design isn't ideal. The dropout itself doesn't slide far enough to tighten the chain in some ring combinations and it doesn't have enough material to hold the bolts, which makes it easy to damage.
All the parts have been assembled, my LBS is hopefully putting it together today, otherwise I'm not sure how I'm going to get home... Might need a clean before a photograph due to a mix of new and some rather dirty old parts!
Voila!
That is magnificent! Enjoy muchly
Nice! Although the dropper post routing looks weird. Should go behind the chainstay under the bb and up no? Sorry to be that guy
It does look like Pipedream do it like that on some of their photos but image searching I see others do it like this. It works fine with this bend in it and keeps it away from under BB bashes and rear wheel mud so I think it can stay as it is!
At the moment the dropper cable looks weird because it’s too skinny for the clamps (they must be sized for hydraulic Reverb hoses) so I need to shim the clamps with some tape around the outer in the right places and then clamp it nice and straight instead of the silly wiggles it’s doing now.
My dropper is routed the same - like you I checked the pipedream site and that’s how they do it. Works perfectly in use.
It’s an amazing bike. You are going to love it!
Looks great! The best color (yank) for them! Get some tape under the brake and shifter cables at the seat tube. Also under the the dropper cable in two small strips running between the hose mount/clamps. . It will save that paint.
Also some mastic on the chain stay. Easy to shape.
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Found the below style worked better
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I’ve just started adding bits of clear Gorilla tape at the likely rub points, will add bits as suggested, thanks!
At the moment it’s set up singlespeed so I was thinking I might leave the chainstay bare but maybe that’s tempting fate? Could do the Gorilla tape on that too. Running 30:18 so the chain is a fair distance from the stays. (Yes, despite being singlespeed it has a OneUp bash+guide - I like having the bash for the log rolls around here and thought it might as well have the guide in case I revert to gears).
Only ridden it home from work but it felt right immediately, dropped off a small wall and rode up through the park and it’s boding well for a proper test tomorrow night.
After lots of tyre pondering it got a Magic Mary up front (can’t go wrong with that, can you?) and a fairly worn Eliminator out back rather than sticking on a new semi-slick. DIY low budget semi-slick?!
seems like moxie is slacker HA, shorter seat tube (big deal for me), steeper seat angle, shorter chain stays and lower BB than the Bfemax (reach numbers are similar)
As a relatively recent BFEMax owner the one thing I'd like to tweak about mine is the bb height if I could.
Head angle is quite slack (slacker would be fine by me althought angleset is a possibility), seat angle is fine, and I quite like the longer chainstays.
But the relatively high BB compared to my previous bike is twisting my melon a bit when tipping into steep slow-speed techy things, it feels like there's decidedly more forward rotation going on before my rear wheel follows me down whatever we're going down.
Other than that though it's a grand bike and I imagine a Moxie is fab too. Especially in That Pink 😍
That looks epic! Very purposeful
That’s a lovely looking bike, enjoy!
That looks great!
My chainstay has been ok unprotected for 1.5 years singlespeed.
A few bits of heli tape elsewhere but generally this paint is good and quite tough, I'm finding.
Holy ****, this bike is incredible!
Absolutely yes. I’m choosing mine over the full suss at the moment. So much fun!
Holy ****, this bike is incredible!
Ha ha!
Welcome to the new nu-skool!
Moxie stream of consciousness:
It just feels so right. Like my Levo’s “storm into everything, steamrollering, maximum confidence” front end but with so much immediacy when I pump or pedal. It’s freakishly smooth. I was expecting it to carry speed better than my old hardtail because of the bigger wheels, I expected it to feel a bit less bumpy/harsh over the rough but not to this degree. How much of that is 29” vs 27.5” or steel vs aluminium or brand new 160mm Lyrik vs 150mm Pike that’s due a service, I don’t know. All I know is it’s bloody brilliant!
Popping off everything, building confidence in the balance to get some more air (I’m far from a great jumper but I am a frequent jumper). Singlespeed was awesome - far less unpleasant than I was expecting, I actually preferred it to geared hardtail or my weird Levo habit of full power solo and zero assistance with the group. We don’t have big hills here although there are some steeper bits. 18 miles and 2000’ of climbing on that ride. Quads were aching more above my knees but the rest of my legs felt less tired if anything. The rest of me feels great, not beaten up like with the Zero.
Set up details - the excellent chaps at my LBS built it up, seat and dropper came straight from my Zero, likewise bars and stem and brakes and I think nothing has changed regarding clamping positions because all feels right. Two spacers under the stem (10mm?) and 40mm bar rise so the front is high but so’s my Levo’s and I love it on that too. Added some LSC to the Lyrik but haven’t even checked the sag or fork pressure or adjusted the rebound - feels great and I’m a really fussy sod!
Tyres were at 22F / 24R. Part worn Eliminator 2.3 is a really great dry rear. Magic Mary 2.35 obviously a great front. Rimpact normal front, Pro rear. Brakes were pretty weak to start with because the rear had new pads and the front had old pads from the Zero that didn’t match the old disk from the Levo. Thankfully they bedded in and felt good towards the end of the ride. Gearing is 30:18 with 165mm cranks and a big 29x2.3 (it measures 2.4” wide, slightly bigger volume than the Magic Mary). Think the chainstays are on the slightly shorter side of middle, so maybe 432mm?
Noticed I used most of the fork travel at times (only by checking the dust marks), about 140 of the 160mm. Despite that I never felt that unbalanced thing or the head angle steepness near full travel that people say is an issue with a lot of travel on a hardtail. I never considered it an issue on the Zero but there were moments when you’d land a bigger (for me) drop with a flatter transition and you’d have to “give the bars away” (this is a horsing term from showjumping - substitute reins). The Moxie doesn’t even need that. So balanced!
Had two celebratory pints and then had to ride home via some trails and discovered that I ride better when lightly lubricated (I am out of practice at drinking!) - more confident and looser. Will have to try to find that vibe when sober!
I've had some great 'flow state' rides after a beer or two!
Bike sounds ace btw
@chief…… great description of the bike. They’re magnificent aren’t they, LOVE mine!
(FYI: Carefully placed without treading on anything I shouldn’t!)
Popped out for a little ride yesterday evening with my eldest small. I can’t get over how smooth it is. If I had the time/money I’d love to work out how much each element is contributing: Big wheels, nice steel frame, fairly big tubeless tyres, singlespeed, rims/wheels, bars and grips, lovely fork. It’s just magical!
It’s not that it feels like it has rear suspension at all, it behaves very much like a hardtail. I’m just shocked how much less harsh and vibrating and buzzy it is. And how much less any bumps slow it down.
Another ride done, same but different group (some slower missing, some faster present) so it was a bit quicker both up and down. It really is very very good. Loving singlespeeding, turns some mildly challenging steep bits into much bigger challenges, gets all the hills done faster and forces a real focus on flow downhill.
Foot bounced off a pedal at one point (no wounds!) which was very strange for me - I think I was too focused on weighting the front and because it’s so smooth at the back much of the time I’d taken for granted that my feet would stay in place. Sorted my balance after that and AOK.
Still can’t get over how much less harsh it is, even landing flatter drops there’s less of a sting to the sudden ankle flexion, so it’s not just the way the bigger wheels smooth out the edges. Lyrik Ultimate is pretty damned ultimate!
Holy cow that is Pink! The colour looks photo shopped!! 🤣
i remember getting a really long bike (for the time) and it feeling like my FS bike at the time. I got bored of the smoothness and bought a shorter bike for the extra challange.
looks rad though - definately wont miss you on the trails! i`m suprised it gets around some of the stanmer corners! but i guess a lot of the tight stuff has gone now.
I really enjoyed my SS summer. i was definately fit after! gave up in winter as it was too slippy to put the required power down and i ended up pushing too much. going back to gears felt like i was on cheating for the fist few rides!
Glad you're liking it. I love mine. I have no idea why but I think it remains quite playful despite the length (although mine is the smallest size, also lacks the weight of gears and I went spendy on the wheels). And I do think has something about it that distinguishes it from lots of other hardtails that feel harsh to me. Mine has the Pike version of the same fork in 150mm. I could never get my Lyrik Ultimates on the other bike anywhere near as nice initially but after a TF Tuned service I think they are finally as they should be.
If you ever fancy sticking a 27.5 in the back, it'd be interesting to hear your comparison. I like mine as a mullet better than with 27.5 F&R but I haven't tried 29 F&R.
gave up in winter as it was too slippy to put the required power down and i ended up pushing too much.
I gave up singlespeeding because I felt it restricted the capabilities of a bike as capable as these nu-skool hardtails.
Sometimes I miss it, but mostly I think I made the correct decision.
I’ll be surprised if this stays singlespeed all the time but on the small hills and dry trails here and now it is very satisfying! I’ve got a bigger rear sprocket I could try when the mud arrives to lower the gearing slightly.
A shorter bike would definitely be quicker around the tightest corners here but I’m so used to my Levo which has basically the same wheelbase (depending on sag and chainstay adjustment) that the line I take and the manhandling required is normal to me.
90% certain it’s coming instead of the Levo next time I have an away trip to gnarlier terrain, 50/50 on whether I’ll cave and add gears before then. Not having an expensive 12 speed mech waiting to get smashed off is a nice thought.
I don’t think I’ll try mulleting it - I like the BB height and angles as it is and my legs are pretty long so I’ve yet to get attacked by the rear tyre, which does sometimes happen (but very lightly) on my Levo - but that has 157mm of upward movement at the rear rather than 0mm.
I gave up singlespeeding because I felt it restricted the capabilities of a bike as capable as these nu-skool hardtails.
For me, it doesn't affect my choice of descents, and it is rare it affects my speed on descents significantly. It would if I did a lot where I wanted to pedal at higher speeds, but that's rare, ours tend to be slower and techier. And I think there's an advantage in that it forces you to find other ways to maintain speed. For me at least, I think that's helped me be a marginally better rider. I love this hardtail as a singlespeed more than I did an older geo hardtail.
What it does mean is that I rarely use it where longer climbs are involved. I've ridden singlespeed at the Golfie but only once and I didn't get many runs in! But I can go a long time between opportunities for such rides, so circumstances dictate that it's not much of a compromise for me. My local rides only climb <200m at a time generally, up to c.1200m in a ride is common but rarely much more, and I don't think singlespeed makes much difference on that.
At the other end of the scale I did the SDW on my Moxie singlespeed. I enjoyed it for that too.
I agree about the descending, mostly my descents are free-wheel affairs.
200m at a time generally, up to c.1200m in a ride is common but rarely much more, and I don’t think singlespeed makes much difference on that.
My climbing is similar in height, most are short and punchy, rocky and rooty affairs. My ability to make it up these is improved markedly by having gears. I'd be pushing alot on SS. There are smoother, more civilised climbs locally if I were singlespeeding, but I prefer things with a bit more interest.
I took the Moxie to work today and rode one of the steeper local climbs on the way home - it’s only just over 100m but it was the gradient that got me. Had to stop twice because I just ran out of torque and stalled, I think when getting over roots/rocks, it was just too steep to keep the wheels turning. So it seems my limit (on a short ride) at the moment is about 20% gradient if Strava is at all accurate.
Also, think I might need to move some spacers, at the moment there's two 10mm ones under the stem, so I'll try swapping one to above to drop the bars a little. At the moment they're high (but mostly good high!).
And the Deity grips are good with gloves but really not sticky gloveless once you sweat - I was ironically death-gripping which I wouldn't have to do with DeathGrips. However I think I prefer them enough with gloves that I'll just remember to wear gloves if I take the gnarlier way to/from work.
Lowered the bars and rotated them back a bit. Rotation was not good, think the height was - have readjusted and will see how it goes. Tidied up the dropper cabling - the clamps are sized for hydraulic hoses so not tight on the cable housing, have added a wrap of black insulation at each clamp so now they're actually clamping.
Noticed some scales here at work so weighed it: 13.9 kg / 30.6 lbs (complete but with saddle bag and bottle removed).
I took the Moxie to work today and rode one of the steeper local climbs on the way home – it’s only just over 100m but it was the gradient that got me. Had to stop twice because I just ran out of torque and stalled, I think when getting over roots/rocks, it was just too steep to keep the wheels turning. So it seems my limit (on a short ride) at the moment is about 20% gradient if Strava is at all accurate.
If only someone had invented a way to get different gear ratios to help go up hills......🤔
“ If only someone had invented a way to get different gear ratios to help go up hills……🤔”
But that would be easier! (And I have an electric geared bike for those days)
Tidied up the dropper cabling – the clamps are sized for hydraulic hoses so not tight on the cable housing, have added a wrap of black insulation at each clamp so now they’re actually clamping.
Interesting. Mine are also not tight, but I've kept it like that. What don't you like about a bit of give in the housing?
If only someone had invented a way to get different gear ratios to help go up hills……🤔
I've got three. Sit, stand and get off and push. Like Sturmey Archer but benefitting a wider range of muscles. 😉
“What don’t you like about a bit of give in the housing?”
The cable outer isn’t very straight (I guess from how it went around the bottle cage bolts on the Zero) and the wiggly black line doesn’t looks as good as it could so I’m hoping by having it clamped more firmly it’ll straighten out. Plus if I can get it clamped straight it won’t knock against the downtube at the bumpiest moments (not that I’ve heard it doing that).
Had another excellent ride on the Moxie last night. 10mm lower bars feeling good, bar roll back to where it’s best.
As I was saying to some of the guys on the ride, my old Cotic Soul was great at my local more singletrack trails but I struggled more on rougher/steeper/faster stuff. My Bird Zero AM was great on the steeper/faster stuff and great in the rough if it was steep and fast enough but was hard to balance in the tight stuff and demanded really precise riding to flow on the flatter stuff (if I rode great it was great, if I didn’t it was extremely truculent).
The Moxie seems to generate flow on flatter natural trails even better than the Soul (although it must be slower on the tightest corners due to its length), whilst being even more confidence inspiring and capable than the Zero on gnarlier stuff and the way it carries speed over the rough is just amazing.
I am inordinately delighted with it (and enjoying singlespeeding so much more than I expected too!)
I should add that although the old 26” Soul was great on my main local trails when I had it, that was 2010-2015. Those same trails are not the same as back then, with more traffic and years of erosion taking them from predominantly smooth dirt with some roots to being far far rootier and rougher with more exposed chalk and flint too.
I don’t think the little wheels would fare as well as the big ones do now that those numerous exposed roots keep trying to suck out your momentum.
I don’t think the little wheels would fare as well as the big ones do now that those numerous exposed roots keep trying to suck out your momentum.
its fine on 26! rail the roots is a bit bumpy but now you dont actually 'rail the roots' anymore (as everyone is apparently a wimp) that is also fine.
you can still pump and generate speed on a 26er. at least you could yesterday. today i'm a large 27er so i'm sure to be at least 6% faster - i'll let you know.
we need to have a 'techy bit' amnesty in stanmer and re-instate all teh rooty bits on trails and cover up the (many) ride-arounds that now appear to be the main line.