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>Even if it's ace, is it as ace as 40 Laggans?<
Err no. Laggan is still operating out of a couple of Portakabins is it not? Sure, it's not ideal - but it works...
All of these locations are surrounded by thousands of acres of bloody Spruce. I have to laugh when I read all this sustainability bollocks - they bought out home owners, demolished buildings and the new place is a shrine to the use of heavy construction & buidling materials which are massively energy consumptive. Supersized log cabins, Alpine style -why not? Put the money saved into developing multiple locations, local forests near local communities working in proper partnership. Then build the 'centre of excellence' further down the line.
I see this building thing as an arms race for the same pot of people and in all honesty I think FCS saw the new CYB VC as a p1ssing contest they simply had to win...
The walking thing is losing me, 'cos when I was a walker the last thing I ever wanted to walk through were forests..., are the FC adding some more 'trails' across on the right (looking from the main road), to access onto Kirn Law - or are they there already?
As far as the cost of rental etc, maybe whoever wins will have the sense to tie this into the visitor numbers - quite common when taking on a lease in a shopping/outlet type centre, as its very difficult to be successful if the 'landlord' is not doing their 'bit' or if the numbers just don't turn up.
I just hope that whoever specs. the decor and 'fabrics' remembers just how filty an MTB is after riding in a sodden GT...
There are loads of hiking trails criss-crossing GT - so it would be less a case of adding more than maybe marking out some new routes on existing trails and advertising them.
GT is nice for walking IMO - it doesn't have great vistas once you're up high, and it's all high moorland out the back, but it's a good amble through the trees. Was a bit nicer before the felling to the N of the red route climb.
If you consider that Peebles is a popular destination for the older generation, than a hiking loop up to Dunslair then back for a pint of mild would go down v well.
who from Edinburgh and Glasgow is going to drive past Dobbies to get to GT to walk a couple of trails and eat cake, theres not even a garden centre there.
Dobbies isn't exactly on the way, nor is it much of an attraction, Tescos with plants. If you want an over priced cafe then pop in.Yeah, personally I don't see the appeal in walking round a forest too much although there are some exceptions. But I guess for some people they just want to turn up, follow some arrows, have a rest at a viewpoint and then get something to eat near their car and drive home again. Oh, wait a minute..... From speaking to a former employee in the area there used to be lots of people would ride their horses at Glentress years ago but they have moved on to other forests, not like there is a shortage. I remember encountering a few walkers on trails years ago but not so much recently. I do remember working on the Pie Run a few years ago when a group of ramblers appeared at the bottom of it and they were positive that it was the walkers path they were looking for and were determined to walk up it despite us telling them it wasn't the path they thought it was. The more we told them it wasn't the more the leader said it was, eventually one of us dropped down to the forest road and showed them on the map where they were and where they thought they were. I don't know how you manage the situation, loads of signs everywhere telling people that they may be within their rights to walk all the paths but it would be better for their personnal safety if they didn't use the ones where bikes may be approaching at speed? There will be a minority that are so bloody minded they'll do it anyway. Looking at the plans for Glentress Peel it looks like a bigger, tidier version of what's there already, no mention of anything new or extra to attract more visitors.
Ive only been riding GT since april this year and although it was overpriced I was quite happy to pay for cakes coffee etc due to the great atmosphere..not so sure to new place will have the same atmosphere 😕
[i]I'm more than happy to be corrected on any misinformation, however you can't correct me on my opinion, marty.[/i]
It was a "fact" that you trotted out twice, despite being corrected the first time. I don't recall you apologising, although you did admit to a memory problem (which clearly hasn't got better). Given that the information you posted was very likely from a document that wasn't in the public domain at the time (see [url= http://www.itspublicknowledge.info/UploadedFiles/Decision124-2008.pdf ]here[/url]), I think it's safe to hazard a guess at where you saw/heard it, eh? Amuse me, was it from Leith or Corstorphine?
Anyhoo, I'll try not to into the CV thing again on here (unless someone asks a specific question). Handed all of my papers and notes on to someone doing some research earlier in the year. Very much a full stop for me.
That full stop doesn't prevent me from commenting on other issues in the mtb / FCS / trailbuilding area though. Spending several years working on the CVDG project (and on races and events elsewhere) does give me a pretty good view of what's gone on, what's going on and where things look like they're headed. I don't comment on things I know little or nothing about (unlike some others on here).
HTH, HAND, etc.
inbred - I think the FC have a grand plan for GT to make it into the borders premier tourist attraction which is great but there numbers are way to optimistic 300,00 and growing that’s 821 people per day. Given that is not open everyday due to snow that’s a huge number of people to go through every day that its open. FC have split their numbers 200,000 bikers 100,00 walkers. I cant see them getting 100,00 walkers (273 per day) I hope whoever wins the tender hasn’t based there business plan on those numbers otherwise it might not go to well for them.
NZCol - Splurging 10mill on a 'visitors centre' is clearly the end of some form of ulterior motive or utterly crazy business plan. If they seriously think those numbers will come I would eat my hat.
Heather Bash - In my view this is a small Tourism project which has simply got out of hand - it wont produce a net gain in mtb participation because there's a mobilty issue with the location.
I would tend to agree. Although it is possible to say that the above feelings are negative and not progressive, I think it is sometimes easy for these projects that use OPM (other peoples money) to spiral a bit away from reality. Would a private investor sunk this much money into this? Ten million pounds to sell cakes and a campsite?
Also, for those that think the Hub will still be there - remember the lease runs out, what will happen is E+T will be kicked out, the portacabin will close and be knocked down, and the whole lot will be paved over for car parking.
Its the visitor figure being touted about that just don't make any sense. 200,000 bikers a year works out at about 550 a day.
On a busy summers weekend I could just about believe that there are 550 bikers using GT a day, on a wet Tuesday in October I'd be suprised if it was 50.
So where are all these extra people going to appear from?
I don't recall you apologising, although you did admit to a memory problem (which clearly hasn't got better).
I don't comment on things I know little or nothing about (unlike some others on here).
Well, now that I have been roundly put in my place over the matter, I wholeheartedly and unreservedly offer my sincere and complete apologies to you personally, and the other members of the CVDG team, for spreading malicious and damaging lies and misinformation, which have clearly caused some personal distress to you. I can only hope that you accept this apology in good faith that it was never my intention to directly offend or affront those involved in the project. Furthermore, I wish you all the best in future trail-building endeavours, should you decide to undertake them.
Yours,
Kit
>So where are all these extra people going to appear from? <
Depends, to some extent, on what retail experience you present the cake hunters with. Look at House of Bruar for example.
Its the visitor figure being touted about that just don't make any sense. 200,000 bikers a year works out at about 550 a day.
As Emma pointed out, to support the figures would require 502 cars a day and there is only 200 spaces, even if each space is 'turned over' twice it still falls short. And Emma was being kind by equalising the car fall over 365 day.
On a busy summers weekend I could just about believe that there are 550 bikers using GT a day, on a wet Tuesday in October I'd be suprised if it was 50.
Exactly which means the shortfall (say 2 days worth, which would be 1000 odd cars) would need to be made up on others days\weekends and as we know there isn't enough carparking.
So where are all these extra people going to appear from?
I think it is in someone's fantasy... doubling the carparking won't help even reach the current quoted number let alone 500,000
House of Bruar has a huge 'captive audience' though because it is on THE busy main north road, and is surrounded by miles and miles of nothing. Glentress isn't on the main road to anywhere in particular FWICS, you go out your way to go there, it isn't somewhere you drop in on in passing.
If only there was somewhere else nearby that had something for all the family, playground, shop, cafe, local information, walks, big house to wander roound and some bike trails. Now if somebody did all that they might have something.
So where are all these extra people going to appear from?
Just thought there's always the osprey's, maybe Bill Oddie and his mates will all come up?
If only there was somewhere else nearby that had something for all the family, playground, shop, cafe, local information, walks, big house to wander roound and some bike trails. Now if somebody did all that they might have something.
Yeah and their shower block is much nicer too. But keep it quiet part of the charm is that its not very busy
From speaking to a former employee in the area there used to be lots of people would ride their horses at Glentress years ago but they have [b]moved on to other forests, not like there is a shortage[/b]
Steven, whilst I like your posts, the same could be levelled at us; I mean there 100s Kms of available riding but we chose a 17Km loop in a spruce forest, people must think we're mad to not venture out further into the countryside.
whatever do you mean steven? somewhere that even has its own brewery perchance?
Yep, I can't believe those figures either. I have been a regular weekday visitor in winter when there's less than ten cars in the car park and no one in the cafe. And that's more often than not.
I wonder if it were possible that putting money into developing the bus service from Edinburgh to transport bikes to Glentress might increase visitor numbers. I know nothing about it, just wondering...
They might think I was mad if I just went to the same place every weekend to ride the same trail but I don't. The point I was making was that if you don't like it there are plenty of other places to go, like the folks on horseback have done. How pampered are we all? Whilst its great to have all the facilities it's not too hard to change your clothes and give your face a wash before nipping into another local eaterie half a mile down the road. Once went into a great pub at Lochcarron at the end of a very long day, now ok we weren't muddy but there was probably a bit of a polyester wiff and they were brilliant. Never been turned away from anywhere with just alittle bit of effort to clean up first.
^^ agreed
Yep, I can't believe those figures either. I have been a regular weekday visitor in winter when there's less than ten cars in the car park and no one in the cafe. And that's more often than not
Actually now I come to think of about it, I remember talking to a certain (7stanes) project manager a number of years ago, summer 2007 I think, and he mentioned that Glentress got as many visitors as all the other stanes put together; and that the number was in the region of 128,000 - which I felt was far more believable than what was being claimed.
Mind you we can speculate all we like, T+E are best placed to know the visitor numbers to a cafe and how that has grown, presumably their bid was based on experience and reality, we'll have to see what happens.
Actually now I come to think of about it, I remember talking to a certain (7stanes) project manager a number of years ago, summer 2007 I think, and he mentioned that Glentress got as many visitors as all the other stanes put together; and that the number was in the region of 128,000 - which I felt was far more believable than what was being claimed.
I think thats more believable and probably also true regarding all the other stanes coming to less than Glentress, I'm sure I read that Mabie gets around 25% the number of GT and is the second busiest
What are the other "new" mtb center's like? I know that Purple mountain getting Kielder got a lot of stick as they were not local and the guys at the existing hire place did a lot to help build the trails.
I was just interested how "involved" the businesses that reap the benefit of the improved facilities are?
bellerophon - Member
Mind you we can speculate all we like, T+E are best placed to know the visitor numbers to [s]a[/s] [b]their[/b] cafe and how that has grown, presumably their bid was based on experience and reality, we'll have to see what happens.
Get the point? How many folk don't go to the Hub cafe at the moment because it is simply over-crowded, or they don't like the food on offer, or the prices, or the fact that it is full of dirty mountain bikers???
Get the point? How many folk don't go to the Hub cafe at the moment because it is simply over-crowded, or they don't like the food on offer, or the prices, or the fact that it is full of dirty mountain bikers???
Yep, I understand that and should have worded my post in the manner you corrected it, in fact I probably shouldn't have made reference to their customer base at all.
Of course, that said and here I agree with you, there is nothing to say the new tennants won't attract more customers from the current visitor pool and may well increase the visitor pool per se depending on their offering; what I was trying to point out is that the visitor numbers quoted by FCS are no where near the reality.
It will be a sad end of an era I will miss the Hub cafe - and I wish Emma and Tracey well with whatever venture they undertake in future.
Hopefully the roads will be good again and a few of the supporters will come down for the Christmas dinner evening on wednesday - I'll check this weekend that it's still on and post up nearer the time.
A (bit of a one-sided) article in todays Scotland on Sunday
http://news.scotsman.com/inverness/On-your-bikes-Hub-pair.6650392.jp?
The pair claim up to 30 jobs will now be lost at their award-winning café, bike-hire and coaching business.
But surely there'll be at least as many "new" jobs created?
i wonder if the FC has taken into account that without mtb their would be no GT and you cant rely on the red socks walking brigade to spend money at the new cafe.
I was up at Glentress today (lots of fun in the snow !) and the chap behind the counter said it is unlikely the Hub will be open on wednesday night as planned. Was very quiet out there...