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Context:
* Cotic BfeMAX build
* Need a fork, ideally around 140mm, boost/29er
* Budget up to about 500 quid
Cotic can do me a 150mm Revelation within my budget. Alternatively I have found Merlin have a 180mm Yari for a little less (I'd have to reduce its travel though which would bump the price up). Both of these run the Motion Control damper. Alternatively again there are used forks around generally, although new does have the attraction of not having to deal with an unknown quantity.
So. I used to have had a 140mm Yari of 2018 vintage with the Motion Control damper. It was OK, although I struggled to get full travel out of it, and it didn't do so well when things got rougher (repeated hits).
I also have a 160mm Pike on another bike (non-boost and 27.5 or I'd rob it for this) and it seems a more capable fork to me compared to the Yari. I put this down to the Charger damper.
I would welcome your sagely thoughts and opinions on:
1. Whether the 2021 version of Motion Control would ride the same as the 2018 vintage? Will I have the same reservations about a 2021 MoCo fork as I did about my old Yari or has MoCo improved in the interim?
2. All things being equal, would you go for a Yari (probably stiffer) or a Revelation (probably lighter)? I'm a fairly light rider and never felt much flex from my Yari or Pike for the riding I do.
3. ...or is it better to get a used fork with a more sophisticated damper? Used Pikes and/or Lyrics are available for this kind of money.
4. ...or am I just overthinking all of this?
I'll half answer this. I had a 2018 Revelation with Moco damper and it was awful as you found yourself (almost locked out over repeated hits, presumably not able to flow enough oil quickly enough). Swapped to Motion Control and it was improved markedly.
So, my choice would be anything without Moco and at your price range you should be able to get a good second hand one. As you probably know nothing new is in stock which fits the bill anyway (all I could find was the SID below, which might work as you say you're a lighter rider).
https://www.merlincycles.com/rockshox-sid-rlc-solo-air-forks-275-209401.html
For a bfe max I'd go for a bigger fork, it's designed to be ridden fairly hard, winch and plummet style not xc epics (although it can do it all) so I'd take the bigger Yari.
I bought some Yari's from Merlin and they were the Charger version, not the Moco ones:
https://www.merlincycles.com/rockshox-yari-rc-debonair-boost-forks-29-223259.html
Serial number says they are these:
https://www.sram.com/en/service/models/fs-yari-chrc-b1
I may have been lucky!
I've reduced the traval to 130 and they seem to work well for me...
I had a 2018 Revelation with Moco damper and it was awful.... Swapped to Motion Control and it was improved markedly.
Hmm, I realise now that I was thinking "MoCo" == "Motion Control" and that might not be accurate :-/
I *thought* the 2018 Yari I had was Motion Control, but I don't have it any longer to check (damn you, bike thieves!).
But based on what you say, a 2021 Motion Control might be better than whatever my 2018 fork had.
I bought some Yari’s from Merlin and they were the Charger version, not the Moco ones:
Ah, thank you. That was the Yari I was looking at; but the description is misleading on the Merlin site (says Motion Control in one place and Charger in the other).
If the Merlin ones are Charger-damped that might have made the decision for me 🙂
AFAIK Moco and motion control are the same thing.
On the basis that they are, MoCo/motion control is a well evolved tech and was in 2018. Chances are the new damper wont be significantly better. Arguably, your 2018 for, has the better air- spring (B1) too. Maybe you ought to look at the Fast Yari Up damper for your existing fork.
Yari is ok. Basically a Lyrik with a worse damper. Revelation is a Pike with a worse damper.
Both Yari and Rev have essentially the same motion control damper. It’s alright but it has its limits if you’re hard charging over repeated bumps. It also seems to ramp up so it’s difficult to ever get near full travel in my experience.
Both can be upgraded to a full Charger damper if you decide you want to at a later date - it just bolts in really easily.
There is another damper inbetween the moco and the full charger - generally called the charger rc. This is similar I believe to a Fox Grip damper (not grip 2). It seals against the inside of the leg (so not a bladder style damper like the charger) and has an ifp.
If you can get one of these in either fork rather than moco that’s worth having.
Have a look at Starbike for cheap-ish RS Lyriks.
Lyrik Select under £500 and Ultimate for £600 - but you'd have to change the airshaft (quite easy) and account for additional import costs.
I ordered one of those Lyrik Ultimates from Starbike a few days ago. The price they quote doesn’t include any VAT (that’s had German 19% VAT removed but they don’t seem to be taking the UK 20% at source which I thought was how it was meant to work) or Import duty.
Not sure what it’s going to come out at but assuming I’ll get hit for 20% Vat and maybe 4% duty? If so it’s still a chunk cheaper than one from a U.K. seller. It’s already been dispatched but I think it’s going to come via Royal Mail so I assume they’ll want whatever payment before delivery 🤷♂️
I have gone from a Pike with a Charger Damper to a Marzocchi Z1. I had plans to swap in a GRIP2 damper at some point but honestly I'll probably not bother...
@joebristol, slightly off topic, but I've been looking at a new set of Lyriks and the Starbike option is pretty interesting. Did you get hit for VAT and duty in the end?
Yeah tax and vat - think all in they cost £780 ish delivered
Ah, perfect. Thanks for letting me know. Still a good chunk cheaper than a UK supplier then!
Motion Control isn't bad. It's not as adjustable as Charger and works perfectly well unless you're very light. I couldn't get full travel with mine, but them I'm 59kg. I put a charger damper in my Yari and it did feel a lot better. If I wind the LSC about half way, it feels like the MOCO. Fully open and it's perfect for me.
Tom, just realised I put Motion Control when I meant to say I replaced it with the Charger. Apologies for the confusion.
Crc had some boost 29 150mm lyrik ultimates for just under £600 last night.
@mjsmke the MoCo damper is pure dog turd.
In my opinion, it takes single hits, can't take repeated hits. Can't take technical riding offroad. Can't handle stairruns. It's a joke. It's only for people in US/Canadian style bike parks.
My left arm is seriously injured (tendonitis galore!) and I'm putting it down to thae damper in a 2021 Revelation. Couldn't get a Charger or air spring where I am, so opted for a whole new other fork.
There are a number of riders out there who are stating the MoCo is a pile of stinking dog turd and frankly there's no getting out of it. Why should we spend £390 just upgrading the fork immediately so we can actually ride it?
Some of the older motion control dampers were actually quite good. Problem now is there are loads of different versions of it, and I suspect they'll all been tuned so they're rubbish. All the dampers basically work the same, orifice port with adjustable opening for slow speed damping, with a preloaded shim acting as a blow off for high speed damping, which may or may not use a shim stack for high speed damping (as it does in charger RC/RC2 and the older blackbox motion control)
Yeah, I felt my old blackbox moco in my ancient rev teams was a match for the charger.
I think hating on Motion Control is like willy waving for how sick a rider you are. Reviews from Pinkbike and Seb Stott when he worked for Bikeradar like it in the Yari and the Domain, Pinkbike to the point of making the Domain one of their shortlisted value products of the year. I run a Revelation and a Pike, a Moco one and a Charger one. Both are good forks, motion control is a good option and if there were several hundred pounds difference I'd stick with it over a Charger.
It only seems to be people on internet forums trying to show how hardcore they are and how big the things they hit are than seem to cry about not liking it.
IMO you're over thinking it. Sure there are (much) better dampers put there than Motion Control but I found it far from a joke and it was plenty rideable in my yari. Upgrading the air spring was night and day difference for me and only cost £40 and about 40 mins to fit with a lower service, upgrading the damper was appreciable too but less bang for buck.
For £500 I think the choice is between a yari/rev or a 2nd hand pike/lyric. Whichever, make sure is has a B1 or C1 air shaft
@munrobiker it's not the big hits. It's the small, and repeated hits, that many of us are having a problem with.
Even my local shops, being diplomatic because of libel laws where I am, call the 2021 Revelation an "uncomfortable" fork.