[Closed] Farnborough and Aldershot - MoD Land - Presentation

I'll be there, tweeted it as MtbTwix too if anyone wants to retweet.

Not good news, Such great riding in the area.

Not good and following on from being removed from Longmoor.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mod-land-access

I can't make that but will find/follow the facebook stuff. Bad news for all as this area provides some great riding.

I'd be interested to know if they intend to ban all cyclists or just those doing 'proper' MTBing. That land is used by a lot of folks and not just the likes of us. Without wanting to sound too confrontational (they do have guns after all) I'd also be interested to know how they intend to police it. After all, they've never really managed to keep a lid on all the dirt bike activity there.

For Longmoor, I was informed by Landmarc that the MOD would do their own patrols and issue a 2 strike policy. Warning first, then fine on the 2nd offence. .

planning to be there

I'd love to come but we don't get back from Wales until 6th
Good luck chaps.
I'd be interested on how it turns out, not least on how they intend to enforce any ban, as I don't think they have the resources to do it effectively. I normally go up there on my own midweek day times these days and there's not a soul around.....

I'll be there 8)

Hoping to get home from work in time for this. Sounds like it could be a pretty well-attended meeting if the number of people posting about it on social media is anything to go by.

I'll be there.

You might have this covered already, but is your local access forum involved/ sending someone to attend?

Does remind me to chase up the SDNP local access forum as they were taking an interest in the Longmoor area clampdown on cyclists after I contacted them a few months ago.

Hope you get this sorted out fellah's. It's been quite some years since I lived there, but seems wrong to ban public use considering the low amount that it's acutually used for training.

I did however nearly get run over by a big tank once, so perhaps they're going to pull out the public safety card!

Emailed Surrey local access group and a couple of papers to find out if they know anything/are going... Will post response if I get one 🙂

I'm going, all the MOD common land is a fantastic recreational resource. For such a crowded part of the country losing access to the land would be a massive loss.

Is there any reason why these MOD areas can't operate a red flag system in the way that Salisbury Plain does?

Speaking as somebody who has only ridden there once - shown round by some friendly locals - it would be a great shame if such an excellent location became off limits.
Can't make it to the meeting, as I have other commitments, but will keep an eye on developments.

Just seen this - I will try to make it

I am puzzled by this - the Army in region has been running down the barracks in Deepcut, Aldershot, Fleet, .. In fact the local plan for Aldershot shows a large swathe of the redundant barracks being turned into general housing in the form of a new town.

Why suddenly do they need the space? If new buildings are required to house the troops coming back from Germany, why are they being built in the SE of the UK? Also given the scaling back of the forces in terms of man-power why do we need allocate more dedicated space.

In any case it will be almost impossible to implement. The area is surrounded by large population centres with multiple access points. The attempts to fence off the region was initially meet with fences being cut until the access points were restored.

I suspect that this is because some one in the MoD/Army is trying to show that they are doing their job and suddenly it has all got out of hand.

Shall we just get together all the riders together to form a huge dossier of 20 years user evidence and apply for bridleways criss crossing all over the estate?

Is there any reason why these MOD areas can't operate a red flag system in the way that Salisbury Plain does?

Red flags is just for live firing areas really. If red flags were used whenever any kind of exercise was going on, they would be up almost the whole time.

If the army followed their own regulations for demarcating active exercises, that would allow riders to avoid blundering into them without closing entire swathes of the landscape at once.

Why the army don't do this is one of many questions that will hopefully be asked tonight. If indeed there is any opportunity for Q&As - we shall see.

The cynic in me assumes this is the first stage in a plan to sell off the land for development. As above, there should be less need for the land now for training purposes and the barracks etc are all being scaled back/sold off.

If cycling is banned, how long before it's closed to walkers etc too? If there is no access permitted, formal or otherwise, then presumably there is no precedent for rights of way to be implemented? No rights of way must surely make it easier to bulldoze.

As above, considering how crowded the area is we are so lucky to have this space on our doorstep. It would be a travesty for it to be lost.

Edit:

Shall we just get together all the riders together to form a huge dossier of 20 years user evidence and apply for bridleways criss crossing all over the estate?

A lot of the land is SSSI status so building would not be easy.

A lot of the land is SSSI status so building would not be easy.

I think tonight's announcement covers all civilian use, not just bikes.

Red flags is just for live firing areas really. If red flags were used whenever any kind of exercise was going on, they would be up almost the whole time.

OK, I didn't realise that would be the case. Surely though there are pockets that are used less than others?

Will the CTC be in attendance?

I think tonight's announcement covers all civilian use, not just bikes.

I'm pleased someone else has noticed this as I was worried that all the talk on here was leaning towards being about protecting 'our' interests as cyclists which is only natural as that's our thing, however there will be a much stronger voice of opposition if we approach this as users of the land in question along with everyone else.

I am planning to attend tonight along with 1 or 2 others.

Yes c_g many exercises (excluding live fire) do not use the entirety of whichever training area they are in, some use very small parts.

The whole blanket ban just smacks of the person at the top wanting the easiest solution - easiest to think of and articulate that is, not easiest to actually implement.

Don't know if CTC are attending, I've invited a local rep but she is currently immobilised after an accident on North Camp's most ludicrous piece of cycling 'infrastructure'.

[quote=offthebrakes said]I've invited a local rep but she is currently immobilised after an accident on North Camp's most ludicrous piece of cycling 'infrastructure'.

The contraflow bike lane along Park Road ?

The contraflow bike lane along Park Road ?

😀

I hate that crazy lane.

</end of hijack>

Stephen Lloyd of the Fleet News & Mail will be attending...

I'll try and video it and whack it on the web...

Has the local MP/s been invited?

I've seen some documents relating to Salisbury Plain and how they were going to make some new rights of way and generally increasing public access. Do you think I can find it? 😐

They seemed keen to engage with Joe Public, in fact the MX'ers were permitted to put up new signage on the Plain.

I'm pleased someone else has noticed this

Sadly the local MP is James Arbuthnot who is heavily involved in the defence part of Parliament and is likely to be Pro-MoD/Army. I also seem to recall that he is planning to stand down at the general election (but that may be me inventing stuff!) and as such does not have to listen to the voters!

Gove and Hunt are the other local MPs 🙂

Where's UKIP when you need them???

Apologies, I assumed from the OP that this was relevant to just cyclists. If the ban will be on all civilian access then that just makes it easier to garner support in it's opposition

Sorry tonyd, I was going to post a link to where I got my info from but typically I can't remember where I read that this was re all civilian use, in fact I'm doubting I did now so I'll keep my mouth shut until the speaker tonight has outlined who this is specifically aimed at 😳

Good to hear the local paper is attending.

Gerald Howarth is also relevant being the MP for Aldershot and Farnborough themselves (although many of the training areas themselves are just outside his constituency boundary).

Sadly

is heavily involved in the defence part of Parliament

Where's UKIP when you need them???

Hope that's a joke c_g 😉 UKIP are very much not cyclists' friends...

I know the ramblers have complained of 'over-zealous' landmarc wardens telling them they were not allowed to walk in groups on rights of way

I would have loved to be a fly on the wall for that discussion 😀

1 - You only need to give names if you are arrested. MOD / Landmarc cannot do this.
2 - Only a court can issue fines
3 - MOD land is public land.

Just come back from the meeting, basic synopsis: due to the influx of troops and machinery heading back from Germany bikeriding is only to be tolerated on roads!!! Some excellent opposition though and the main MOD representative wasn't even aware of singletrack riding at Caesers Camp! 😯

Couldn't go, away with work. What happened? Is my Saturday ride needing a reroute?

Feary; are you a lawyer /in the know on this? My understanding is that these are statutory byelaw powers and hence are enforceable if the powers decide to, including summary courts, etc.

The synopsis is if you're a cyclist then 'get off moi land' (apart from the tarmac road from twesledown to Aldershot)

The guys presenting were just the mouthpieces. Someone up high has decided that bikers are unwelcome. Fear of accident liability claims was given as one of the reasons.