[Closed] Expensive bikes - how much difference does it make?

diminishing returns I suspect, but that might be envy talking

Very little, and I own what was a "superbike" when I bought it. It's an XC racer and I was racing seriously enough at the time to justify it, yet the answer was very little - if the aim of riding is enjoyment then the difference is even less.

I got pasted the other day by a bloke on a bike which probably cost about 15% of what my bike stands me at.

The squidgy bit on top makes a lot more difference.

I'm the limiting factor in speed, skill and fun while out riding, not my bike.
Even if I had the money, I would run cheaper bike and go on more weekends away or holidays...

Think for most of us mere mortal riders it's purely in the head - feeling passionate about your riding and feeling like you've got a good bit of kit under you.

For some it'll be a status thing.

for a select few it will make a noticeable difference, but we're probably talking world class racers here?

That's kind of my thoughts too (on both the squidgy bit and the keeping cost lower vs experiences). I think if I'd spent that much money I'd have less fun as I'd worry about breaking the thing!

Price doesn't mean anything except what it costs. Look at YT. You can buy a top of the line DH bike that is WC level ready for £4299 (doesn't hold Gwinn back any) or you could by one of those steel 29er hardtails from Trillion Prime for about the same price.

Very little, and I own what was a "superbike" when I bought it. It's an XC racer and I was racing seriously enough at the time to justify it, yet the answer was very little - if the aim of riding is enjoyment then the difference is even less.

Same here and +1

That said I like like shiny things and tinkering so get other fun out of a pricier bike in other ways. Caked in mud and dying on my ar$e? Wouldn't know what I was sat on 😆

There's two sides to it IMHO

Brand means a lot price wise, is a SC frame twice as good as a YT? Nope, expert review wise a Capra is slightly better than the last Nomad or slightly worse or just slightly different depending who you trust.

When it comes to spec diminishing returns certainly plays its part and that moves in cycles depending on your timing, I doubt many people would find any real benefit to a M8000 equipped bike over an M7000 equipped bike, but last year an M8000 v M677 might have been more noticeable.

As a 40yr old Dad my days of chasing superbikes are long gone.

In reality, once you reach around 2-3 grand, assuming the bike is being used for its intended purpose, the returns from spending more aren't going to turn you into Gwin/Nino/Graves.

What's nice about them is you don't have any niggles about what you are riding - 'It'd be better if only I had a....' They are very nice to ride, they have nice little features that you could live without, but it's nice that they have them.

The downside to this of course is that if you aren't as quick as the next guy, there's only one place to look, but then that spurs you to train harder.

And the ATGNI jibes cut deep, man.

The difference, imo, is that as the price goes up, the bikes operating 'window' widens. When you have a bike with a trick carbon frame, that has all the right components on it, you can have a long travel, slack bike that is still pretty light and can still be pedalled up hill, despite being incredibly capable on the way back down!

I've been riding a 150mm carbon bike for 4 years (a LP spicy) which is by most standards a pretty capable bike, but my Mondraker is genuinely significantly more capable on rough, technical and fast trails (180mm travel!) and yet weighs no more. Add in the latest forwards geometry and you have a bike that lifted my Alps riding last year from "reasonably swift" to "pushing the guides". Ok, i was riding well, but not that much better than the previous year, and i put that down to having a cutting edge bike!

On less technical, less steep, smoother trails the effects are obviously less pronounced!

Expensive bikes are overpriced.
If I wanted to replace my Spearfish with a similarly equipped Segment I would be looking at £5300. Hope wheels XT bits.
It will probably be for sale soon and I doubt I would get much more than £800 for it.

Segment is £300 cheaper than a spearfish....

They may not directly make you much faster but it could motivate you to get out and ride nore which will make you faster.

They are also often nicer to ride, I've just put some new wheels on my road bike and its like s new bike so much sharper.

[quote=wilburt ] just put some new wheels on my road bike and its like s new bike so much sharper.

placebo effect

(read my first post up there before throwing out the obvious comebacks - though actually I've realised I own 2 superbikes - ie mostly built up with the best possible parts money could buy at the time - and one which didn't cost that much but has lots of top end parts on).

"pushing the guides"

As has been mentioned really. You can get a full sus bike with pretty near the top of the range forks, shock and groupset for 3k-ish. Most bikes above that will have similar parts so defo diminishing returns performance wise. That's not to say they not worth it if you can afford it though.

I realise I'm not putting out any more watts, the last wheels were old and flexy the new ones are stiff as, the difference is real.

Bikes (or the summof there parts) do feel different.

If someone that knows the trails well is being "pushed" by a once a year average visitor then something is wrong.

Or they're doing the usual guide thang, riding just off the front, if they hammer it all the time they are jeopardising their jobs through injury or exhaustion..

To answer to OP, worth it? All depends how tbh, prob not really. In the last few years I've had 2 top dollar bikes, an SB66 and now a Bronson, and 2 direct purchase, a Capra and a spectral (I still have the spectral).

The 2 expensive ones have been better, without a shadow, but they should be, shouldn't they?....

I don't drive expensive cars, or live in a 5 bedroom detached house like lots of my colleagues, so why not.

I want to get to a decent age and look back fondly at the places I've ridden and the nice bikes I was fortunate enough to be just about able to afford. Tis an awesome hobby we have.

I would run cheaper bike and go on more weekends away or holidays...

Or they're doing the usual guide thang

I rode with some guides once that weren't guiding me (mates who I happened to run into on their local trails). They left me for dead. Was on one of the aforementioned superbikes too.

[quote="wilburt"]They are also often nicer to ride, I've just put some new wheels on my road bike and its like s new bike so much sharperdepends where you started and where you finished. £300 wheels to £600 quid wheels or £1000 quid wheels to £3000. In the first case there will probably be a noticeable but small difference, which will actually make virtually no difference to forwards speed. In the second. Not really. Unless you bought completely different wheels (i.e. shallow clincher rims to deep aero tubulars).

I'd guess that the last ~50% of a superbikes price is vanity and shiny bits, the performance will be indistinguishable between a £4000 and £8000 bike. Unless you are looking at some very specific bit of tech. (Di2 maybe?)

I've had plenty of superbikes. But not for a few years. And i wouldn't have spent my own money on them. Not at retail prices anyway. Which is good, as they are usually discounted by 30% as soon as the model year changes!

My "superbikes" doesn't make much difference to the actual riding. If there's any extra value it comes from working (or not having to) on it. It feels nice to own and it's nicer to work with but I don't think it gets me up or down the mountain any quicker.

As for the comments above about guides, they generally don't ride at more than about 80% as they've got a whole season to do and down want to wipe out and spoil your holiday. Also, some of them will ride at a pace to control your speed to you get to ride the whole week as well.

Want to go faster on a guided holiday? Don't ride on the ragged edge and don't ride on the guides wheel.

Better bikes are better than worse bikes, but expensive doesn't always mean better. Sometimes more expensive bikes narrow their focus and increase their fragility.

I always liken this debate to XTR vs XT. By their own admission, Shimano make compromises in the longevity of XTR as it is their full-on race kit designed for lightness, function and to push the boundaries of what is possible. XT is arguably 'better' if you value longevity. And the same principle applies to other parts of the bike.

Similarly some bikes from smal boutique brands are inherently more expensive because they lack economy of scale. That doesn't make them inherently better, just more expensive.

Beyond a certain price point the law of diminishing returns kicks in, and even further up the scale I think that some bikes actually get 'worse' in terms of everyday usability and serviceability

I would say that there is a slightly different view of road vs off-road exotica. Expensive road bikes definitely have more of a perceivable difference than expensive off-road bikes in my experience. Partly because there is more finesse and weight/aero/efficiency matters more vs off-road where it is more brutal and kit gets abused more and there are more environmental factors at play (mainly terrain).

But don't forget that without expensive products pushing the leading edge, trickle down wouldn't exist to make everyday good value bikes better than ever.

If it's cupidstunt from BV he's croozing and spending more time looking behind at the guests than where the trail goes.

Lucy (Lucifer on here?) of Bike Verbier does the same thing, puts your riding ego in check when you think you're flying and you realise she's trying not to gap you too much whilst looking backwards...

Superbike money is diminishing returns vs pride of ownership. If you can afford to own 'premium' and it enhances your overall experience, why not?

Trust me, there was no "controlling speed" or "looking back to see where everyone is" or anything else like that on this occasion!

I've been riding the alps for 5 or 6 years now, and i know when the guides are "guiding" and i also know when they are letting rip! And in this case, at La Thuile, there was no holding back. In previous years the guides gapped me, when this happened, but not last year 😆 Sure, i've gotten a better rider over the years, but last year was the first year where i think i had a bike that completely suited me, and a bike that gave me enough confidence to REALLY push hard. I've also ridden enough runs at La Thuile over the years to broadly know the trails (not in absolute detail obs) and it's genuinely a lot easier to follow than lead on blind runs!

At the end of the particularly memorable run, all three of us, on arriving at the bottom, literally, dropped out bikes and lay down in the grass, panting like dogs and trying to shake what felt like rigor mortis out of our arms and legs, we were all totally shot after that top to bottom run

The next rather telling fact was the two guides asking to have a go on my bike! 😆

The main difference you experience when riding a super expensive bike is when you are passed by another rider you can be a lot more certain that they are better than you.

maxtorque is surfmatt and I'd claim my fiver, but I think someone already did that...

Haha! Twisty is right, also on the flip side it makes overtaking people on said superbikes more satisfying.

I think ultimately it depends largely on riders skill. The pro riders may be able to extract a little extra from a fancier bike but that's it. Price has only a very loose impact on performance, like said above about Santa Cruz Vs YT. It's funny this thread coming up as a friend at work has a calibre bossnut but wants to upgrade so something flashier. I think a Bird full suspension. Whilst the bird may have nicer bits I would be surprised if he actually got any real benefit from it.

John

As others have said, once you spend much over £2k on either a road bike or MTB you are into the world of diminishing returns.

There are plenty of slow guides out there, generally they are with the slow groups however. 😉

Trust me, there was no "controlling speed" or "looking back to see where everyone is" or anything else like that on this occasion!.

IIRC you put some how to videos up on here trying to learn how to jump a baby tabletop? I mean it in the nicest possible way, but that sort of riding level doesn't reflect someone hounding a decent guide.

But hey, it's all about the bike, right? 🙂

A well designed bike will always out perform a bling one. I'm lucky enough to be in the "trade" so have demo'd £1500 entry level FS & £8k wonder bikes & a lot of the time the mid range £2.5k bike will match or out perform the mega bucks ones. Chi chi latest parts hanging on a frame are nice asthetically but not essential to performance

I have never had a super bike , spent 1700 in 1999 which in today's money would be a fair bit I suppose , current bike is a bird aeris which was £2500 .
I am 40 in a couple of years and thinking if I don't do it then I never will , I have wanted a Santa Cruz seeing them on the stif advert in Mbuk when they were first in this country. The thing is I love my bird and it has made me think what would be the point in spending more , a couple of pb's on Strava or improving my 3/4 down the field race results by a couple of places if even that was guaranteed. But having said that your only here once , I don't smoke , gamble or really drink much and I love riding my bike so why not .As long is I don't think owning a bronson is going to turn me into josh Bryceland

£2.5k for a road bike, £3k for a HT, maybe as much as £4k for a FS, after that its really into diminishing returns and window dressing imo.

Certainly notice the difference between a £1500 13kg HT and a £3k 10kg one, but then probably double the price to drop 1kg more.

butterbean

IIRC you put some how to videos up on here trying to learn how to jump a baby tabletop? I mean it in the nicest possible way, but that sort of riding level doesn't reflect someone hounding a decent guide.

You do realise those bunny hop videos i posted were in slow motion yeah???

lol!

Alright sailor...

I've got a full carbon long travel 29er full sus with xx1 drivetrain, XTR Brakes, DT ex1501 wheels, pike etc.

I definitely notice the difference in the brakes, wheels and drivetrain. Frame feels bombproof but don't notice a difference in ride feel compared to a aluminium frame.

You do realise those bunny hop videos i posted were in slow motion yeah?

It wasn't a reference to the speed...

So what you're saying is that i can't ride for toffee then?

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I think the biggest difference is that if you have unlimited budget you can get the exacct bike you want with few commpromises. Would I spend 3k on a bronson frame, probably not as for me it doesn' offer me anything I particularly want that I couldn't get for far less.

But if you do want something very specific then you may have to be prepared to pay for it. My Yeti cost quite a bit, but I bought it as its exactly what I wanted a short travel full susser to be, and I couldn't find anything similar for less. Its ideal for me so worth spending the cash on, but that doesn't mean its 'better' than something half the price for someone else.

As for the bits that hang off it..Well Its not a particularly bling build as I honestly don't think that I'd notice the benefits of xtr over xt, better dampened forks etc etc..the bits I do notice I haven't compromised on however, ie dropper, brakes, tyres etc etc.

I do get the impression that when you get in to the relms of carbon everything 8k bikes it does become a bit of a vanity project, ie you want the very best even though you probably know it'll not benefit you one bit.

that said, I have a 5k bike and I'm by no means rich, so if you can afford such luxury good on you, I know if could I'd probably do the same.

I can imagine expensive bikes are nice to own, if you're into that sort of thing. But, bikes are just a tool for a job, as long as they perform their job properly then the cheaper the better really. And it's no good just having the correct tool for the job, you've got to know how to use it properly aswell; yesterday was a prime example......

Went out for a quick fifty miles and about 15 miles in spotted a couple of chaps up ahead who looked a bit "dubious". You know the sort, shaved legs (one of them had a calf tattoo FFS), socks pulled up like Brad Wiggins, knees sticking out all over the place. Anyway, caught them up on a gradual drag and complemented one of them on his steed, then told him he'd be better off on some shallower wheels as deep sections only really make any sense if you ride at 20mph or more. He just said "wait till I get on the flat" but TBH, I couldn't be bothered waiting, just put the hammer down.

Turned off a few miles later to catch my breath and have a tab; they must've gone past as I saw them a bit later on, on the flat. And you guessed it, still going reasonably slow.

So, to summarise: expensive bikes are great, although they won't make you a better rider. However, some people who own expensive bikes seem to live in a dream world......

Picture the scene ;campsite in Les Gets, a mixed group (male/female) all with fancy bikes.

One of them started explaining to me how experienced they were at mountain biking, obv's trying to alpha male it up in front of his female companions (On a tangent, one of his quotes was "there's nothing quite like seeing the sun set over Mount Everest" - so you get the picture, this guy is a bit of a berk.)

Anyway, saw them the next day, one of them getting carted off the hill after stacking it on a double on a Blue run.....

The moral of that story is: don't act like a big man in the safety of the campsite, when you can't act like a big man out on the trail where it counts. Not sure whether that's got anything to do with expesnive bikes mind you.