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Holy s##t! I fly the Boeing 737 for a living and own a camelback and a giro helmet/shoes. I am worse than all of you!!!
Clearly the only thing to do is to burn it.
I hate it when people make an effort to improve the world for everyone. What total arseholes!
Meanwhile, on the front page...
Some people are full of shit. Go boycott the government for selling arms to other countries if you want to take the moral high ground. Chuffing hipocrites.
I don't want to make too light of the discussion but this made me smile.
*Yawn* The old 'if you're not devoting your whole life to the cause you're a hypocrite'-argument of the lazy.
The old I'll post a reply to this thread that has no real relevance to the topic in a attempt to look clever, belittle someone and completely miss the point. Yay!
I was highlighting a good case of people jumping on the day's bandwagon while far more suspect issues go unchecked.
The old I’ll post a reply to this thread that has no real relevance to the topic in a attempt to look clever, belittle someone and completely miss the point. Yay!
I was highlighting a good case of people jumping on the day’s bandwagon while far more suspect issues go unchecked.
Did you read any of this thread or the one from last week, then? Talking about this doesn't mean people don't talk about other, more serious, things too. Just because this is small in comparison doesn't mean it can't be worthwhile too. I don't disagree that there are bigger problems, but I don't see that as a reason for people to ignore this one, as you seem to imply.
Some people are full of shit. Go boycott the government for selling arms to other countries if you want to take the moral high ground. Chuffing hipocrites.
How do you 'boycott a government'? I didn't vote for the current one, but I'm not sure what I can do in economic terms other than emigrating. Norway seems nice... lots of moral high ground there. And trees.
You seem angry, do you work for the NRA?
We need to list all of the worlds issues and then prioritise them. Everyone then only has to care about the top issue (so just one at a time, easy eh). Right, let's start writing them down....
Do we have to take action on all of them?
Some people are full of shit. Go boycott the government for selling arms to other countries if you want to take the moral high ground. Chuffing hipocrites.
Because it's better to do nothing about everything, right?
I was highlighting a good case of people jumping on the day’s bandwagon while far more suspect issues go unchecked.
Gosh, if only we were capable of having more than one thought simultaneously.
Predictable drivel of replies bang on cue, except warpcow.
Angry? No. Outspoken? Probably. Speak my mind? Absolutely. Member of the NRA? Pfffff.
List every moral issue? My example was specific to the subject matter discussed. Want to make a difference? Go petition the NRA directly if it bothers you that much. Let's be honest, if cycling related brands weren't involved, you wouldn't be giving it anywhere close to same amount of attention.
Boycott the government? You pay taxes. Don't then. Sure, you'll get into shit load of trouble for it but you're passionate about this cause, right? (Cue more predictable replies). I mean, the government selling arms to other countries that will absolutely be used to kill people is a massive deal and well worth being fined and potentially imprisioned for. No? Perhaps a more convenient cause like the one being discussed is more to your liking as involves by association a couple of brands that relate to your hobby. (Cue I must be pro gun replies).
The US gun law as a whole is crazy, no doubt, and needs addressing but a boycott of a couple of cycling brands is not a long term answer. Having spent time around guns, both over there and the UK, the attitudes of the average gun owner are very different. The problem in the US is the right to bare arms and while that remains, you will always be on the back foot on gun related issues. The likes of the NRA can happily feed off of this right, ignorance and paranoia and the situation escalates further.
The US gun law as a whole is crazy, no doubt, and needs addressing but a boycott of a couple of cycling brands is not a long term answer.
Is anyone proposing it as a "longterm solution"?
In fairness, boycotting related brands is a simple, proportionate option for anyone objecting to US firearms issues to express their views and it hurts the parent company where they feel it, right in the bottom line. These are after all the brands that prop up such business when there's a downturn in gun sales... If contributions to the NRA start to hurt the whole group, there has to be a point beyond which it makes better sense to yank that funding.
I find it quite encouraging that people have actually started to think about the "interconnectedness" of their consumer spending with wider issues.
I'll admit that as much as I have views an opinions on various topics, I seldom bother to apply any personal sanctions to the corporate entities that affect those issues, which is arguably a more powerful tool (if used en-mass) than your vote...
You're absolutely right; US gun violence isn't the only issue in the world today, so how else could people adjust their spending to help reshape the world? Stop buying cheap Chinese imports to weaken support for North Korea? Stop buying Russian Gas and oil till they stop dropping barrel bombs in Syria?
I made the same point about hypocrisy in the last thread and I still stand by it. I wonder if anyone has actually taken the time since then to check which funds their pensions are invested in? I'll take a guess and say no one. Too much bother am I right? People like to show on social media that they give a **** by jumping on the latest bandwagon, but the reality is when it comes to examining other areas of spending, rarely is any action followed through.
Fair point, the issue you have is with "virtue signalling" rather than people actually taking a (small) stand through their spending then?
I can't disagree with you there. But then to simply rubbish the notion of "ethical consumption" or label everyone a hypocrite for coming to the debate late and under-researched is a bit counterproductive also.
So setting aside the social media opining, is there any reason people shouldn't vote with their wallets?
Alextemper above seems to be arguing that unless you can take decisive and far reaching action you shouldn't bother, which sounds a bit like encouraging apathy to me...
Social and political debate is awash with hypocrisy, and nobody is without their ethical contradictions, that's no reason to try and shut down discussion or rubbish people's personal choices...
Look at it another way
If it was legal to buy a firearm and shoot a perp in the UK would you buy a gun?
Clearly the only thing to do is to burn it.
But maybe not by flying it into a building, that is also frowned upon by some
Look at it another way
If it was legal to buy a firearm and shoot a perp in the UK would you buy a gun?
It is legal to buy a firearm in the UK, as for shooting a "perp" I've no great desire to kill another person...
We have pretty effective gun control in the UK and gun related death statistics to illustrate their effectiveness, you can still own and use a gun as a tool of your trade or for sporting use...
I'm not sure many Americans really know why the 2nd amendment exists, the right to bare arms was there as the ultimate sanction the people had should their government turn into a bunch of oppressive tyrants, or if an armed militia needed to be formed in defence of the nation from foreign invaders. I don't think the founding fathers were envisaging school massacres or the forming of a fervent gun appreciation society...
Unintended consequences eh?
Cost, reliability, build quality, looks.................................................................... nra ethics.
something or other in that order.
Predictable drivel of replies bang on cue, except warpcow.
U ok Hun?
Alextemper above seems to be arguing that unless you can take decisive and far reaching action you shouldn’t bother, which sounds a bit like encouraging apathy to me…
Social and political debate is awash with hypocrisy, and nobody is without their ethical contradictions, that’s no reason to try and shut down discussion or rubbish people’s personal choices…
well said.
What's wrong with people half-heartedly rallying behind a random symbol of political expression?
Also, whataboutism.
Lot of Giro plugging on STW... are we supposed to forget about the NRA cos there's been no shooting for a few weeks, or have Giro departed company.. or... I dunno...
There's been mass shootings, just not on a Florida scale.
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/mass-shooting
vista to sell bell, giro & blackburn.
I just bought a helmet and avoided vista brands, looks like I'll be back with giros soon but not camelfoot.
I like the fact that this story has played out like it has, informed consumer choices led to change, however insignificant it seems. Just hope the people who work at bell giro etc keep in work.