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Ive got a nice little Brucie-bonus coming up from work in a few weeks, I'm tempted to get a set of Enve 29er M60s for the MTB (currently has Stans Flow Ex on Hope hubs) and a set of SES 3.4's for the road bike (currently has Ksyriums)at the same time.
Has anyone got them fitted to their bikes? Did you notice a difference or did things feel largely the same? Just intrigued.
both my MTB and my Road bike have them,
XC and AM on the MTB and 65's on the Road bike, had 45's prior
came off DT Swiss XRC330 Carbon on the MTB and Ksyrium SLR's on the Road bike,
cannot tell the difference if im honest, rear road wheel has just gone in for warranty (hub not rim) and ive got a Shimano R500 thing on,
still cannot tell the difference
im with dirtyrider - had a set of enves now switched to LB rims - cant tell the difference.
id buy LB if i had to replace any of them
Had Enve's, broke a pair. Got Ferby's, also broke them, but got warrantied. Second pair have lasted a lot longer. Can't tell the difference. I suspect if they were Light Bike I would feel the same.
Actually, the Enve's are a rubbish design. In that you have to remove the tyre, the sealant & the rim strip to true them, as the spoke nipple is hidden inside the rim. Brilliant.
Thanks for the honesty there dirtyrider.
Woooooot!!!!! This thread has saved me BARE cash. I was assuming they were life-changing...
Thanks guys!
[img][url= https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8606/16456603837_1f5552a78b_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8606/16456603837_1f5552a78b_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/r5doYV ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/56594563@N07/ ]tangwyn[/url], on Flickr[/img]
I currently have this sitting next to me. The wheels are 29r tubs on King R45 disc/ cx ray/baby limus and are indeed very light and pretty, not sure I could handle the cost personally. This is a donor bike from my sponsors for a project to be shown at bespoked.
If you do change OP I could be interested in your old wheels. 😉
I think their seatposts/bars/stems look shit. Sadly.
I think there is a very noticeable difference between a good alloy rim and a good carbon rim particularly with a 29 wheel. I went from a sun ringle charger pro, which is very similar to a flow, to enve am 29 rims and there is a marked difference between the 2 in terms of accuracy and flex. I've also had the chance to ride on some derby carbon rims and couldn't tell a difference between them and the enve, fortunately my enve rims were second hand and a very good price but if i was buying new I would go with either derby or lbc.
But is greater accuracy and stiffness better?
I noticed a big difference switching from American classics alu to lightbicycle carbons on my 29er. Much stiffer not to mention weight, but, I couldn't justify enve's. I have two pairs of nice lightbicycle wheels for less than one pair of enves
On a rigid bike (like my Stooge) would the stiffness be a disadvantage?
I liked danny hart's comments in the new dirt about how he likes an alloy rim and a bit of give, to help him stay on line.
I definitely think you can go too stiff for any particular bike.
On a rigid bike (like my Stooge) would the stiffness be a disadvantage?
How much you going to notice rim stiffness with a 3" tyre deflecting all over?
How much you going to notice rim stiffness with a 3" tyre deflecting all over?
I don't know, that's why I asked 😉
I definitely feel the benefit on my full suspension as it removes the vague feeling on turn in and helps me track straight through rough ground rather than being pinged around.
Interestingly I bought a stooge a couple of weeks ago and swapped my old wheel set over to it and didn't have the same vague cornering feel, I was actually going to try the enve front wheel on the stooge this weekend so will let you know clink.
even with big tyres you still notice the stiffness, especially in fast rooty/rocky terrain
Mine just bring caf stops alive 😀
Interestingly I bought a stooge a couple of weeks ago and swapped my old wheel set over to it and didn't have the same vague cornering feel, I was actually going to try the enve front wheel on the stooge this weekend so will let you know clink.
Great!
I think a lot of people miss the point of carbon wheels and so do often end up with overly stiff wheel sets. When buying/building a carbon wheel you need to think differently. A 380g carbon rim is as strong, if not stronger than something like a flow, so you're already buying into that strength from the outset. You [i]need[/i] to build them with light spokes, preferably just 28 (24 for XC duties and even trail stuff if 24H hubs were easier to find). 32 is DH territory in carbon wheel terms, and brings added stiffness you just don't need, let alone want. By reducing the weight of the spokes, and number of them, you add back in some compliance that you lose, but still get a set of wheels that will take a hell of a beating. You're going to end up with a wheel that weighs probably 1400-1650 grams, but is as strong as something 500g heavier. Too many big thick spokes and it will just feel dead and too stiff, and you loose the weight savings - negating the point of going carbon at all.
Also I do agree that DH wheels aren't that suited to carbon rims - for someone like Danny hart impact resistance is as important, if not more so than stiffness or weight. This is one weakness of the carbon rim, in such that while they will resist deflection amazingly, they wont give under huge edged impacts, they will just crush, often catastrophically (but not as often as you'd think I suspect). To get around this, you see massively beefy rims for DH, but thats now made the rim basically solid, and not that fun to ride, and offers little or no lateral or vertical compliance. I built some (ironically I guess given the above) for DH use only today, but I used Sapim Race double butted spokes, and only 32 of them - something that would normally be more of a trail build than DH, but I know the wheels will take it just fine, it didn't need 36 straight gauge spokes like most alu DH wheels would run.
By reducing the weight of the spokes, and number of them, you add back in some compliance that you lose,
Although when going from 32 to 28 you generally go from a 3spoke crossing to a 2 spoke crossing, therefore not changing the stifness (plus a 28 spoke rim is stiffer than a 32 one).
Although when going from 32 to 28 you generally go from a 3spoke crossing to a 2 spoke crossing, therefore not changing the stifness (plus a 28 spoke rim is stiffer than a 32 one).
I wouldnt say most wheels run 2 cross for 28 spokes, 3 is still the norm, and of course while a 28h rim is stiffer you're talking the difference between drilling 4 small holes in 400g of carbon vs loosing 12.5% of your spokes - loosing the spokes has a far greater effect.
I have 4 sets of 29er XCs (3 clincher and 1 tubular). 2 run Tune hubs, 2 run Chris King hubs. I also have a set of Stan's Crests on Hope hubs and Mavic Open Pros on King R45 disc hubs. All with CXRay spokes. So, I can make a pretty well informed comparison.
I like the bling of the ENVE rims and they are true, stiff, light and strong. Truly a quality product.
But anybody who says they can tell the difference vs a decent aluminium rim, well built and tensioned is wearing the Emperors New Clothes.
If you fancy an expensive treat, you won't be disappointed. If you fancy a less expensive treat, you would be equally happy with a really well build pair of Stan's Crests on decent hubs and either bank the rest, or spend it on a decent biking trip, or something else for the bike.
Or some Light Bicycle rims. 99.9%? The performance of the Enves, 20% the price.
LB - unless having ENVE splashed all over your bike is really important to you 😉