End of the road for me and gravel bikes?

I can't offer much advice on setup, but I was having similar doubts for a while as I rarely made it past 50km on the gravel bike without starting to get quite uncomfortable hands and arms.

I did all the usual stuff with position (shorter, more upright, saddle lower) and contact points (fancy Lauf Smoothie bars, gel pads etc.) but nothing really solved it until I read 'one weird trick' on the Trainerroad forum which is to imagine the handlebars as two bananas.

It's obviously just a good mental cue to relax grip and shoulders, suddenly I found I was comfortable after 135km of relatively rough gravel.

Maybe worth a try?

Can you lower your tyre pressure?

I run the 47s at about 26psi....im about 82kg and i dont feel i would want them lower.

Could you run some rockshox / fox gravel bike suspension forks?

Surely one of the gravel suspension forks would help?

I’d be demoing some short travel XC race bikes to see if they work. Might do the job.

I hadnt really thougbt about the suspension forks for it.

Is there a prefered model?

Or can i get a short travel 29 xc bike that would allow me to have sone spped and fun on mixed surfaces? Any recommendations?

That's what I would do if I were you.

100mm xc hardtails, maybe Trek ISoSpeed one for good plushnesses

I rarely made it past 50km on the gravel bike without starting to get quite uncomfortable hands and arms.

Same here on the Merlin g2p.

Then I bought the Vagabond and it's solo much better.

Yeah I wouldn't want to go lower than that tyre pressure either.

On the Reilly site there is a picture of a Gradient with a suspension fork. Its an MRP, probably a Baxter.

A good gravel suspension fork would help a lot, in combination with lowering your tyre pressure in the supplest tyre you can find, run tubeless... I run 20psi on a 48mm wide 29er tyre at 175lbs for relief for a hand injury, it works. Make sure you're happy with the service intervals on a gravel suss fork, mileage dependant... if not, a Lauf fork also does a lot to minimise vibration for zero maintenance.  A Gradient has a relatively short headtube for a given size, make sure you're not too low with weight distribution too much on the hands.. you can always fit the drop bar type with a built-in rise if you've maxed out the steerer.

A racey 29er hardtail can be surprisingly fast with negligible speed difference to a gravel bike with the right setup - the current trend seems to be gravitating towards a drop barred 29er anyway. A narrow 90's width flat bar may be slightly slower on the road but much better for the off, but mostly personal preference...

I've mentioned it before but most gravel bikers I see are riding with locked-out elbows. It's little wonder so many are looking for solutions like suspension forks, flexy stems and so on. Might not apply to you Ian but it's worth thining about trying to build up some core strength so you can ride with elbows flexed and loose, allowing them to soak up some of the vibration and bumps.

I struggled with vibrations from road bikes for quite a while after a serious wrist injury, I found the high frequency vibrations of a road/gravel bike much worse than an mtb.
What I've done is to go max comfort, bigger tyres, riser gravel bars, thick bar tape with extra cushioning underneath and a canyon VCLS seatpost.

I'd try to be sure its buzz, and not the position, but a carbon xc bike with Thunderburts will go pretty quick

I swapped my gravel bike for a surly krampus.

Mainly because the gravel bike was horrible to ride offload. Road bikes with knobblies are OK around a muddy field for a hour.  IMHO.

Might not apply to you Ian but it’s worth thining about trying to build up some core strength so you can ride with elbows flexed and loose

Don't know which Ian you were talking to but I was consciously working on core but at the same time quite able to do the whole superman/playing the piano on the bars type thing whilst riding along, I would just slip into bad habits and 'dump' all my weight on the bars, I think that's where the banana handlebars trick worked so well.

Lauf forks are pretty good at reducing the buzz. No damping, but it's the high frequency buzz that it deals with.

Ironically, I've only ever had cyclists palsy with a flat bar bike, I don't get it (or maybe it takes longer to come on ) with a drop bar.

My gravel bike has a redshift stem & bars and a vcls post, so it's pretty well damped and maybe 50mm tyres help.

I think the main things are to be relaxed, and have a bike that fits.

The thing is, any sort of hardtail bike still has a direct connection between the rear tyre and the handlebar. No fork will help with that. I'd suggest a fast and light, full suspension xc bike. My Epic 8 is no slower than my fast gravel bike on anything other than smooth tarmac or howling headwinds. It's almost as smooth as my 150mm full suspension on the rough stuff. Got to be better for your body?

Is the bike the right size for you? Maybe a bit too big, as this means you're stretching with more straight arms, resulting in all the trail buzz being transmitted up your arms.

For big gravel rides, I often prefer to take my xc full sus, it's so more comfortable and I can really let it fly on the descents. Descents that would have me having to brake on the gravel bike. So maybe a lightweight xc bike might be better suited for you.

This is me from last week riding the Tour Of Ben Nevis loop, all gravel but I wouldn't want to do it on a gravel bike. 

What size is the Gradient?

#askingforafriend

I’d be looking at a Lefty Oliver and maybe a softtail like a Moots or something with designed flex like a Topstone carbon.

https://www.merlincycles.com/cannondale-lefty-oliver-gravel-fork-700c-302834.html?utm_source=PHG&utm_medium=AffiliateMarketing&utm_campaign=phg-GB&ucpo=205637&app_clickref=1011lzJ93sis&source=PHG&utm_medium=Affiliates&utm_campaign=shopforwardcss

I’m 100kg

Around 22 psi in 47mm tyres

Maybe try 2 psi lower at a time

When I got a head injury last year, I experienced the same feeling as you. Rattling over stuff  at high frequencymade my head hurt and I just couldn't hack it. I could almost feel my brain bouncing off the inside of my skull. @Kramer mentioned on a thread here that by riding off road I was doing more harm than good.

If you don't think you're going to see improvements after your brain surgery I think the only answer is an XC bike. The nominal amount of suspension a gravel suspension fork will give you, combined with the relatively thin tyres, isn't going to help enough based on my experience. Plush fork with 100mm travel and big but fast XC tyres will be the only thing to really help, and even then if you can do 120 or 130mm and use a suspension seatpost I would.

didnthurt

Lovely photos

That looks great for a gravel bike - were there other bits that were less gravelly more MTBy?

@easily

Popular route, good vídeo here of a couple doing it over two days on fat bikes. The route passes two bothies so I'd plan to stay in one of those if I was doing over two days rather than camp. There is a river crossing that would be difficult or impossible after heavy rain but was fine last week.

Route here:

https://gpsrouteshub.com/mountain-biking/ben-nevis-mtb-loop/

@scottoutes

Bent elbows is a huge thing

Bent elbows and a relaxed grip. The larger hoods on my GRX shifters help with the grip, as does thick bar tape. Maybe get some flared bars with minimal drop and get used to riding in the drops, definitely helps with control and braking, maybe help relieve pressure on your hands. Might need to raise the bars too.

Trek Supercalibre or Procalibre depending on budget.
I only ride gravel on a ti framed drop bar bike with 42mm tyres. Miss my XC hardtail. Not quite as quick on easy routes, but overall much more comfy.

Swap out the fork for some kind of Surly that will allow a 29+ front tyre.

dont cut the steerer and try one of those adjustable angle stems with a beach cruiser/ north road style handlebar.

Try raising the bars. Had the bars too low on mine, which lead to my head being tipped too far back, particularly in the drops. Result was neck pain, headaches, even some vertigo. Higher bars will also shift more load from the upper body rearward onto the legs.

I do find gravel bikes give my shoulders and neck more of a workout than even a rigid mountain bike.

Thicker/softer bar tape. Dunno if it's the thickest but I saw 4.6mm Lizard Skins in a shop recently.

I've got Spank Vibrocore rims. They won't solve your problem, but do make a slight difference that when combined with low pressures, comfy bar tape and a flex stem it all adds up.

I still mtb and have a Cotic Jeht and a Spec Enduro. I find that these remove all the trail buzz and allow me to ride and even jump without any effect on me.

I'd maybe just ride those for a bit, maybe stick some fast tyres on the Jeht to make it more tolerable on the road, and see if things calm down over time.  I think the whole staccato thing goes with the gravel experience tbh, even big gravel tyres can only manage so much, though a mate who runs a Rockshox Rudy on a Stigmata says it makes an appreciable difference.

I made the basic error of riding my Camino with 45mm tyres across the Pennine Way track from Snake Summit to Mill Hill the other day, it's paved with old mill slabs and it was an absolutely horrendous experience, constant jolting from the slab joins mixed with micro-crap from the texture of the slabs, worst route-selection error I've made in ages. Gel pads under Supacaz bar-tape fwiw, non-extreme riding position etc, it is just how it is. The downhill afterwards, also on slabs, was even worse.

The same track is fine on a mountain bike. I think essentially it comes down mostly to tyre volume. You can ride as loose as you want, in or out of the saddle, fast or slow, and it's still horrible, just at a different frequency. I'm sure you can mitigate it somewhat with component choices etc, but them's the basics.

Also, I guess you're descending on the drops, so the angle of your head / neck will have changed compared to riding on the tops/hoods, I guess it might be worth experimenting  with set-up to see if you can mitigate that. Something like a Specialized Hover bar with flare which raises the whole bar might possibly help? Looks 'interesting' but if it works, it works.

Call me old fashioned but why try and fit the marketing mold? I’ve been riding bikes 40 odd years. Road bikes off road, MTB’s on road.

For me a gravel bike (as described and sold in the marketing BS) is not something I will ever need.

All bikes have slight compromise when it comes to use, rather than spending £££ polishing a turd ie a road bike, CX bike, gravel bike, hardtail mtb, full sus mtb , I accept that at the boundaries you get some (a little) compromise.

Personally I’d be getting a hardtail mtb

I’ve decided rigid off road isn’t for me…
Gravel bike or MTB. Strangely it’s not the downs that get me… I can “ride” over or around the stuff that hurts… I struggle on the flat… you can’t be in “attack mode” for a long duration and the repeated hits whilst pedalling just get too tiring

Why would some one who rides their road bike off road not want at think it reasonable that some of us have the option of fitting bigger tyres to their drop bar bikes?

To me the marketing BS was selling road bikes where it was debatable as to whether you could fit 28mm tyres

It’s not just you, gravel bikes are frankly terrifying on downhill sections where quick changes of line, bunny hops and a bit of air are required. I use one in Greece and it’s great in the road and then riding down a dusty sandy gravelly bit to the beach, but going up the mountain, across the mountain and down the mountain I wish I was on a hardtail.
Race kings on a 29er would be very quick on road as well.

Yes, race kings on a 29er is quick and only a bit slower than a gravel bike. Really though, excluding marketing, a gravel bike is really just the fastest type of bike on mild off road terrain. That's it. If you are not racing or really need those seconds saved, then might as well sell the gravel bike and put it towards a full suss xc bike. Supercalibre, blur, epic, oiz, that sort of thing. Good luck and hope it all feels better once the bike is resolved.

I hadnt really thougbt about the suspension forks for it.

Is there a prefered model?

It's a mistake to think of them as a suspension fork, think of them as doing a similar job to your redshift stem as they are generally 30-40mm of not very well damped travel

If you must have drop bars how about something like the Cotic Cascade with a proper 100-120mm MTB fork, it's designed for it and get one you can lock out for road sections

Thanks didnthurt, that looks like a wonderful ride. I'm moving to Scotland soon (east coast, not Fort william), so I'll be looking for stuff like that. I'd guess the hardest part is working out which week has neither midges nor rain 🙂

... and yeah, looking at that video I don't think I'd fancy a lot of it on a gravel bike.

I bought a gravel bike. I just couldnt gel with it regards the 'strapped to a jackhammer' feeling.

Gave up and use the gravel bike for roads (given the state of them) and use an XC hardtail on gravel.

Much more comfy and much more confidence descending fast gravel.

The added plus is you can then go a bit off piste if you want to.

I liked my gravel bike but just couldn’t get on with drops. Tried different widths, reach, style but nothing stopped me getting sore after 30km or so. I put it down to me not riding in the correct position for drops after a lifetime on straight bars. Tried to adapt but couldn’t get comfortable and realised I would never be committed enough to train my body to ‘fit’.

Sold it and bought a Cube C:62 Reaction and found the only place it was a bit slower was on road. It converted me to XC bikes and I’ll be getting an Epic or something similar soon. Just be careful with some though as the low front ends could cause issues.

If I cycle at home and know the trails I use a gravel bike.
If we go to Scotland for a holiday I take my ancient xc hardtail as it covers most of what I want to ride.
Most of it is gravelish but when it's rough I get on better with an old mtb.

I've just bought another gravel bike after getting rid off my last one because I've decided that gravel bikes are just a bit shit.

Went for a Topstone this time with the flexi rear end for a bit of comfort etc. put some nicer wheels and wider tyres on it as well. Turns out gravel bikes are still a bit shit and most rides would be more fun and just as fast, if not faster, on my Epic Evo. I should have just saved the cash and spent it on a couple of decent sets of wheels for the Epic instead.