[Closed] El Guapo V3

i've got one.... the ONLY gripe is the pedal strikes (considering getting shorter crank arms = more £££).... other than that it's the perfect bike (well i think so)... i went for the CCDB Air shock too..

Got mine yesterday, not going to be built for a few weeks yet. My wife has an older one which is great, it'll be interesting to see what the difference is....

What sort of riding are you doing on it? I'd be using it for everything from local XC to trail centres and mincing about on DH runs. As you say, shorter crank arms would help with the pedal strikes (when I demoed on, the Titus guy said in advance that it should have had 170mm arms).

I've got one.... the ONLY gripe is the pedal strikes (considering getting shorter crank arms = more £££).... other than that it's the perfect bike (well i think so)... i went for the CCDB Air shock too..

What forks, headset and sag are you running?

I run X0 cranks - CRC consistently sell the 170 length ones for £179-199. If you really are worried about crank end strikes, RaceFace do little rubber covers for the ends. I've heli taped the arms and the still look like new!!

Even better, they just happen to be blue to match my new Titus FTMc!!

Like others I've had problems with the low BB and consequent pedal strikes; I assume this is a consequence of bikes these days being aimed more at predictable trail centre use rather than the real outdoors. I'd expected this from reviews I'd read but was surprised to be caught out by a piece of off-camber canal towpath on its first ride. Apart from that it works extremely well for the general XC and DH-light use I give it. Very surprised by how well it climbs!

On the pedal strikes I'm trying some thin pedals which seems to have helped and is a cheaper and lighter solution than replacing the current 150mm revs with Lyrics or similar. I've also pumped up the shock (Monarch) and forks to give a bit less sag; currently running at about 20-25%.

People talk about Low BB and strikes etc...but it depends what you compare it to.

Compared to your XC bike? Maybe.

But mine replaces my socom as something I can ride all day sometimes, enter enduros on.

And compared to that, it's not a low BB!*

*actually, it's about the same, but less travel, set up a bit firmer.

I've got to say that if you get regular pedal strikes you cannot just attribute this to the bike or your personal setup - think about your technique. I ride a blood and a Helius ST, both of which have fairly low BB heights, & can honestly say that whenever I get a pedal strike it's solely down to me & my technique at that particular point. The most often being off camber & rocky or rutted.

Look further forward in the trail; learn to pump the bike properly, setup your pedals in advance & carry speed trough certain sections. Ask yourself, does a couple of pedal strokes extra actually gain that much? I'd say not, but a pedal strike can upset the flow of a whole piece of trail.

EDIT: the other thing to be wary of is reducing sag in an effort to keep the BB up - some frames ride better at certain sag levels. If you run less sag on a frame designed to ramp up, especially when using an air shock that naturally ramps up anyway, then you're gonna have the issue of never achieving full travel, which then gives rise to the question of whether you're riding the right bike in the 1st place.

Ask yourself, does a couple of pedal strokes extra actually gain that much? I'd say not,

If you're going uphill it makes the difference between riding and getting off and walking. I think what you're trying to say is that there are sometimes ways of avoiding pedal strikes. Doesn't get round the fact that a lower BB will generally lead to more pedal strikes, or more dabbing/walking.

If you're going uphill it makes the difference between riding and getting off and walking. I think what you're trying to say is that there are sometimes ways of avoiding pedal strikes. Doesn't get round the fact that a lower BB will generally lead to more pedal strikes, or more dabbing/walking.

Change your technique and choose your line more carefully.

If there's a rut that so deep that you get pedal strike on most turns of the pedal then don't ride in that rut. Yes a lower BB can lead to more pedal strikes, but its not insurmountable. Besides which, there isn't that much difference between BB heights amongst most trail bikes these days, so I stand by what I said that it's down to technique.

in my case i have a direct comparison to a 2007 Yeti 575, because imoved everything across from the yeti to the titus... i od a regular ride and know the route very well... with the yeti i rarley caught the pedals, with the titus i often strike...

brant: i'm running 32% sag, (yes that's a touch more than i did on the yeti) that's with a 150mm fork (which is going to be swapped for a beefier 160mm one [nothing to do with the pedal strikes mind]) 175mm cranks and a on-one smoothie headset....

it's a [b]minor [/b]gripe though and i am adapting the way i ride because of it. as stated it's a fantastic bike and is pretty much everything i want, i love the way it climbs and i love even more the way it descends....

rj: my riding like yours is trail centres, up in the peaks and the odd (poorly executed!) DH run...

brant: i'm running 32% sag, (yes that's a touch more than i did on the yeti) that's with a 150mm fork (which is going to be swapped for a beefier 160mm one [nothing to do with the pedal strikes mind])

So try 25-30% sag, and a 160mm fork, and things will go up. At least 5mm.

will give it a bash for certain... i'm still having fun playing around with the shock settings anyway 😉

first ride on my EG today! 8)
cable routing was slightly hard (after much deliberation went for crossover above the shock so not rubbing on head tube) and front mech setup really hard for some reason, nothing to do with frame.

anyway..
doesn't feel heavier than my old 90mm travel bike, to lift or to ride.
doesn't feel like a sofa/barge like a Spesh Pitch either.
two thumbs up so far 🙂

couple of pedals strikes (already had 170mm cranks and thin pedals).

need to RTFM on Monarch cos the lever didn't seem to change anything 😕

this bike immediately encourages you to do silly stuff haha, but, probably going to get me into accidents 😮

forgot to mention most important thing, sizing felt right, i'm a fairly long legged 5'10", medium + 50mm stem wasn't in danger of hitting knees on controls like i sometimes used to on medium Trek, getting off back of saddle still easy, lifting front easy.

Hi,
I have just got an EG v3 with CCDB and reverb. I have ridden it four times now and I am impressed with it. It is my first "big" bike, so I don't have anything to compare it with.

I am just wondering if anyone else with a v3 is suffering from major cable rub issues on the frame (bike built complete by On One)? I have put protection patches an quite a few places but still seem to be getting a lot of cable rub all around the frame. On the left side of the fork crown the cables have rubbed that much they have worn through the patch I put on (after four rides).
Thanks
Alex

Is the BB actually particularly low on this? It seems to be a complaint levied against it all the time, but I wonder if it's just something a bit random that people have latched onto? Like most questions in terms of bike geometry, there's a balance. Lower BB = more stability.

Also be interested in any more owner ride experience.

I've got a v2 one which from what I gather is pretty much the same, I find it a really nice bike to ride, better than the 2006 spesh enduro and a 2010 mythic rune I had previously. Builds up pretty light as with coil front and back, saint cranks and Hadley/flow wheels it comes to about ~33lbs.

Did have the cable rub issue but a bit of helicopter tape sorted that out!

Bb is noticeably lower than the rune I had but that was quite high, fortunately I'm not a retard so haven't had any issues with peddle strikes and it has been ridden around the peaks and most northern trail centres so plenty of rocky climbs.

Anyone know where you can demo an eg?

Titus are now part of On-One/Planet X and sell direct, not through shops. I don't know if they have any to demo at their outlet or not.

and that ^^ is a serious downer. I'd love a go on one because for the price, they look awesome. Unfortunately the ride is an unknown to me and I need to see one in real life to get my head around "does it look as ugly in the flesh as on the monitor"... Shame as I have money for a new frame burning a hole in my pocket...

How low is a low BB? Specialized low, or lower still?

Mate of mine used to have one and he clobbered his pedals quite often. It always looked like it was sitting very low to the ground when we was riding it. I always thought he didn't have the shock set right, but it was according to him as he played about with it all when setting it up.

I was getting a lot of pedal strike issues at first, rechecked the sag on the CCDB Air shock and I hadn't got it right for whatever reason. Now running approximately 30-31% (21mm) sag at mammoth riding load (extremely full bag, winter kit, extra food and so on) and after a full weekends riding it seems to be a lot better. You do need to adapt your technique and line choice if you have come from a bike with a much higher BB like I did.

One thing that is puzzling me though is, I am not getting full travel out of the CCDB Air shock. I have even resorted to running the High Speed Compression fully open (i.e. zero) and it still doesn't seem to make that much of a difference. The last 15mm travel on the shock shaft is not getting used at all even on high speed drops and jumps onto rough ground. Is anyone else having this trouble? There have been a few posts about similar behavior on the Cane Creek website. The following is a quote from their website made by a Cane Creek representative:

"If you are currently running your HSC wide open then you will probably benefit from the inner air can upgrade. You can contact your closest service center to inquire about having the upgrade done."

To me, that doesn't sound good, if like me, you have bought a full bike from On One with this shock fitted. In fact it sounds like what is being supplied may not be fit for purpose. I'd appreciate your viewpoints.

Thanks.

One thing that is puzzling me though is, I am not getting full travel out of the CCDB Air shock

I recently read somewhere that if you are constantly getting full travel out of a shock, it aint setup right.

I'm seriously considering one. it's like a full suss version of my blue pig! and for £599, bargaintastic. I wonder if i wander upto hebden bridge i could have a test ride???? 😀

I understand that you don't want to be bottoming all the time but the thing with the CCDB Air is you should be able to make it do whatever you want it to do. Part of the setup tuning instructions for the shock from Cane Creek advise you to adjust it until you are getting full travel on big drops and then reign it in to suit. The fact is even with zero HSC I can't get full travel (a long way off).

I recently read somewhere that if you are constantly getting full travel out of a shock, it aint setup right.

What! that's the complete opposite of all the advice I have ever heard, as they general belief is if you aren't getting full travel at least once a ride what's the point of lugging around that much suspension!

Why on earth would you ride around with 120mm forks,if you on ever use 80mm of the travel. Why not just get some 80mm forks and save a ton of cash and weight.

First of all, are you absolutely sure that you should be able to make the o-ring come off the end of the shock shaft? Some shocks don't use all of their shaft (E.g. my float. I've never used a CCDB air though).

Let all/most of the air out, can you get the extra travel then?

If not, it could be that something is hydro-locking.
If you can, it just sounds like the progression curve isn't quite right. Perhaps a larger volume air can is what you need? Are there any internal spacers you can remove?

One thing that is puzzling me though is, I am not getting full travel out of the CCDB Air shock. I have even resorted to running the High Speed Compression fully open (i.e. zero) and it still doesn't seem to make that much of a difference. The last 15mm travel on the shock shaft is not getting used at all even on high speed drops and jumps onto rough ground. Is anyone else having this trouble? There have been a few posts about similar behavior on the Cane Creek website. The following is a quote from their website made by a Cane Creek representative:

"If you are currently running your HSC wide open then you will probably benefit from the inner air can upgrade. You can contact your closest service center to inquire about having the upgrade done."

To me, that doesn't sound good, if like me, you have bought a full bike from On One with this shock fitted. In fact it sounds like what is being supplied may not be fit for purpose. I'd appreciate your viewpoints.

Which rocker position are you using on the lower mount?
If you aren't getting full travel the first change should be to move the rocker to the lower/rear/more linear position.

The EG is a progressive bike, as as such, ramps up towards the end. So if you're not getting full travel it could just be you are not hitting things hard enough to make it do that.

To the chap talking about not getting full travel out of the CCDB air.

first thing to check is that without the air in the shock, does it compress all the way? Mine still has a few mm of shaft left at full compression with no air in it, this is by design but varies depending on the size shock you have. ie you're still getting the full 63mm (or whatever) of travel but the shaft itself is 68mm long.so it might be giving you a false impression of how much travel you should see just be looking at the o ring. This is the case with the shock length I have on my bike, but not the case with allsizes of ccdb air.

Having said the above, I've got the ccdb air on my bike (mojo HD), and i have sag set correctly, when riding most of the trails round here, I dont get the last 10mm travel, but when I go somewhere with bigger/faster terrain, I get the full travel.

If you really do never ever get the full travel then suggest you try the new inner aircan and see how it does.

Just checked and I am using the rear/lower mounting for the shock. It came like this when I received it from On One and I haven't changed it. I spoke with TF Tuned and they said they would do the mod for free if I wanted it. I will and find some bigger features to hit before I send it to be modified I think, 3 foot is about the biggest so far.

Got my shock modified by TF Tuned Shox for free (Higher Flow Inner Air Can has been fitted). It seems to progress into the last 20% of travel now when pushed. TF put a good base tune in for me and the bike feels amazing now. The rear wheel tracks the ground so so well.

On another note I had some serious issues with other things on my bike that if not sorted would have left me seriously annoyed to say the least. In fact I would have been posting on forums like this telling the world about it. Companies get a lot of bad press when they don't do things well. However, I must admit that On One/PlanetX gave me excellent customer service with my problems and turned a potentially awful situation into a good one. They have a happy customer here.

i always have a chuckle at people who go on about supposedly low bottom brackets and pedal strikes, learn to read the trail and time your pedal strokes.

I'm seriously considering one of these. A low BB is absolutely perfect, I prefer a low, raked out feeling bike so Brant has my attention.

I do have a couple of questions for El Guapo owners and Brant:

Firstly, I have a Wolf Ridge in a size large, but the thing that spoils it for me is that the top tube is a little short (for me). Does anyone have experience of both frames, if so how do they compare from the cockpit? Geometry-wise, they're extremely close but on paper the Titus seems to have a longer top tube, but it's difficult to gauge how this translates in the metal.

Secondly is a question for Brant. Is there any likelihood of the El Guapo getting a 12mm rear axle in the near future?

I'd also be keen on a 12mm rear axle...

I'm following this thread with interest.

12mm rear axle for me too please!

richc - Member

What! that's the complete opposite of all the advice I have ever heard, as they general belief is if you aren't getting full travel at least once a ride what's the point of lugging around that much suspension!

That's obviously total rubbish, though. Unless all your rides are identical. If I set up my bikes so they used full travel every ride in the pentlands, they'd never stop using full travel at innerleithen.

im curious as to how this would fare compared to my 2011 pitch pro. it looks like a beefy santa cruz blur 2 but apart from the ccdb is it really any better than what i have?

Good point Ed!

Anyone ridden both the El Guapo and the FTM? they are both the same price!

Slightly cheeky posting this here (relevant audience tho...), but I'm now planning to get rid of my EG for something a bit more XC/longer TT that I can ride more comfy for all day stuff (and has bigger wheels, cos that's how I roll). A large, which is a touch short for me at 6'4" for all day stuff. If anyone's interested I'll put a post up in the classifieds - was going to wait till after xmas as didn't think anyone would buy now, but I've travelling over the UK for xmas so could maybe deliver.