[Closed] Do Hardtail riders have more fun on their greener grass?

I swapped all the bits off my Rush onto a Ti456 a year ago and TBH it's different rather than way better. After really long rides I miss the comfort of the Rush but as the vast majority of the riding I do is less than three hours and trail centre blasts, a light, chuckable hardtail is the right bike for me. I would suggest demoing something before taking the plunge as a modern, trail hardtail is a very different proposition from that Scott. Hope that helps.

Switched to a Carbon 456 from a Zesty 314 a couple of months ago and Totally love the thing, mega light and responsive and astonishingly capable going down. I still have the Zesty frame as took most things off it for the 456 but plan on building it up again in the spring to give myself both options. Hardtail is what I started on and its good to be back but my old bones do notice it. BTW I'm 13 and a half stones heavy so don't worry about carbon and weight.

Since building up a cotic soul a couple of months ago, my five has remained an expensive ornament in the shed, however i'll be keeping both before doing anything rash like chopping the five in as i think i may miss the full suss long term, i think having both is the ideal situation but if i had to have just one bike (heaven forbid) it would be the soul.

Yes 😛

Stick with what you've got and wait until it needs replacing.

A hardtail will onl tune your skills in as much as you will be able to keep up with others and you might be better after that if you then switched to a full suss again. IF you stay on a hardtail it won't make you relatively better.

Go for it if you want but you'll be looking back over the fence in another year. I went for the other option and just bought another bike. I alternate as the mood takes me but riding a hardtail has made me a riding god.

If you want to swap bits over you need to check fork steerer hight and steerer width (Most uset to be 1.125" but now are all ofver the place). BB widthm especially if it's sq taper, octalink or splined. Seatpost and clamp sizes. You'll never get a perfect match and it's best not to compromise on a frame for want of a few components.

I'd recommend budgeting for a new post and clamp. I'd recommend you change the headset and bb regardless unless you are running something brand new or expensive on the current bike.

I'm a blonde rigid-rider and I have the most fun possible 🙂

I have a carbon fork so my bike is nice and light up front to manual, and I can zoom up all those techy hills in the Peak District faster than anyone!

However, on the way down I have to pick my route through the rocks a bit more carefully and skillfully. On a full-suss I think you can power down with more confidence.
Saying that, I find that suspension can bounce me off randomly, so without it I do always at least end up going where I want to.

I initially only rode rigid on local trails and kept my suspension for more techy stuff but found I missed it so much I now only ride rigid everywhere.

I find that a steel frame absorbs some of the bumps better than Al and gives a nicer ride.

When I have a full-sus I want a hardtail, when I have a hardtail, I want a full-sus. The grass is always greener. Ideally, I would have both.

I found the HT to be a hoot - great fun kicking out a lightweight back end when stamping on the pedals. It was hard work on rough climbs though (I found I needed to stand up much more often). I've currently gone back to a full-sus as I think that from A to B, for me, it is quicker (I'm hoping I'll notice the difference at the end of races next year).

If you only have room and funds for one, I'd say keep the one you have (based on your description of riding).

Definitely greener grass on the hardtail side.

You don't think we're going to take our suspensionless bikes on anything else, do you? 😈

you need both.

resistance is futile..........

Like both by FS and HT for different reasons - Trail centres I love bombing on my FS but locally around hilly Dartmoor I like my HT - my FS give me more adrenaline buzz d.t. speed and bigger drops/launches but my HT is great for fast singletrack and give me the buzz that way 🙂

ditto the_lecht_rocks

Get both.

wow, wast expecting such a response.
Definitely a mixed camp there. Interesting to see so many still anchoring for there Full suss, just in case. So the grass is greener on the hardtail side but not for long.

I guess if my budget could lead to another full bike then I would definitly have 2, run them for a bit and see which one gets let out the most.

LimboJimbo - I could see a less comfortable ride being an issue after a while. And what also prompted me bringing this topic up was after having a quick ride on my mates Santacruz Superlight. I thought mine was light, in my ignorance 30lbs isnt that light, but ploughing down a rocky descent the superlight struggled to keep up. The Rush's extra pounds helped keep it planted......I assume a hardtail would struggle more? (similar rider skill of course)

Descending on a hardtail is completley different from FS, The FS you can pretty much hang on and let it plough through if need be but with the HT you have to unweight the bike quite alot to get it to patter or skip over stuff to compensate for the lack of suspension at the rear, others will no doubt disagree but if you want planted over the rough stuff I don't know if a hardtail would suit.

I've recently made the swap the other way - from hardtail to full susser. Actually my initial impression was that full suspension took a lot of the fun out of it. You can skip a hardtail over lots of the rough stuff which makes you feel skilled and like a riding god.

I tried a Rocky Mountain Slayer for a day and it just ploughed over everything which made me feel like a comfortable oaf. But by the end of the day I was converted and am getting used to a second hand Yeti and finding out just how much fun I can have on a full suspension bike.

The hard tail is all about poise and skill whereas the full bouncer is all about hooning down big, steep drops too quickly with a grin on your face.

I wouldnt consider my riding style to be lazy. But the hooning down steep drops way too fast to be legal does appeal 🙂 You guys might be saving me some money.

I almost went for a hardtail earlier in the year after 12 years of full suspension. Had a go on one for a day and decided against.

I found it uncomfortable and lacking in grip and a bit skittish at the speeds I like to go. I always thought that suspension was not about hitting big lumps flat out but more about keeping tyres on the ground and maintaining grip at speed and my experience bore this out.

Also a bit of propedal negates any climbing advantage a hardtail might have but I accept a hardtail will be a couple of pounds lighter.

I don't accept that someone who hasn't ridden a HT will be less skilled that someone who has. I've seen people on either that could hand me my arse on a plate skills wise and those that were fairly inept.

SKill level is not really bike dependent but I'd say all other things being equal a good rider will be quicker on a FS and to me speed = Fun.

The price of suspension is high maintenance requirements and limited life spans after you have already paid a premium for the bike. Some forks have 20 hour service intervals.

Check the cost of suspension services and maintenance and see if it's a price you want to pay.

You have a considerable amount of suspension in your arms and legs if you want to use them, but it's a completely different riding style.

About the only reason to have a sus bike is if you intend to travel at race speeds and don't mind the costs.

But I'm not knocking suspension - it helps keep the local bike shops in business 🙂

The price of suspension is high maintenance requirements and limited life spans after you have already paid a premium for the bike. Some forks have 20 hour service intervals.

That's my excuse for NEEDING a singlespeed rigid bike too. 😀

pixelmix - Member
...That's my excuse for NEEDING a singlespeed rigid bike too.

I'm not capable of race speeds so that's my excuse 🙂

I love stripping stuff and then realising I have no idea how it fits back together....proper bloke. If its relatively easy and no super expensive tools required I'll give anything a go, thats why YouTube was invented I reckon.

Arms and legs suspension. I dont think I 'depend' on the suspension on the downhills, my arms and legs do a huge amount of the work, I guess HT would just require more. Speed is a big issue though.....faster,faster, did I really just survive that? Phew.

My Rush was fantastic for seated climbing, far superior to the 456, although I found as I got used to it and adapted my technique it got much better. Bear in mind though that the retail price of your bike was just over £2000, nowadays an XT and Fox equipped carbon framed FS would be well north of three grand to replace if you changed your mind back again. I reckon you could cobble together a hardtail from 2nd hand, spares and sale bits for not much more than £500 which would be a better comprimise. If funds/space preclude that, then I would stick with what you've got.

Some good logic there. All that definitely affects the way I look at the whole purchase as I only paid £900 for it, I did nearly munched his hand off as it looked like it hadn't been ridden, it was kept behind his sofa in his front room.

As far as climbing goes: I think it may be my technique Im sure but as I like a stretched out riding position Im quite well back on the saddle when it comes to climbs I struggle often to keep the front down. If yours climbs like a good'un it must be me that needs to move forward/change technique.

I'm a die hard hardtailer, but really want a full suss to help out over the rough stuff. Went on holliday with the bike for the first time this summer and there was a huge gulf between the hardtails and the full sussers. Yes the riders probably had more tallent/balls but even on mixed sections of smooth/rough singletrack it was a huge gulf. We'd be hanging onto their back wheels over the smooth bits, then as soon as we hit the rocks its like those skydiving videos where one guy opens his parachute, we may as well have been stood still, we'd be concentrating on holding on, they'd still be cranking on the pedals!

In the UK theres much less need though IMO. I'm looking for something like a patriot 6.6 or bottlerocket fo uplift and playing arround.

Uphill and on singletrack - mostly better.
Downhill - you get flung all over the place.

Partly "greener" partly not. I just like the lack of extra maintenance.

I went from years of riding HT's to a FS about a 1.5 years ago. I sold my HT as money and space in the house were both issues. I miss my HT sometimes, it was light and fast, great for going up and not too bad down.

For the short time I had both it was a luxury to be able to select the bike best suited to the days ride but having said that I almost always took out the FS. Personally I found it better for my back, having had surgery to correct a slipped disc. In some respects I am slower on it, harder to get up hills, on the downs I can keep up so much more speed and take on things I would be scared to do on a HT. For me pushing it like that is the fun part and it gives me more of a rush that doing on a HT did.

Despite the weight penalty I don't feel as wrecked after a day on my FS as i did with the HT. That was mainly my back though.

Maintenance is something to consider, it worried me at first. Another shock to be serviced and a bunch of other parts that could fail. But look after it and it will most likely look after you. I went for a 5 which is a pretty simple thing welded out of knackered skips so not too much to worry about.

If you have both, keep both.

Brain loves riding my hardtail, joints and muscles tend to disagree and make their feelings known before the end of most rides.

Luckily most of the people who can afford an expensive full susser are no longer at the peak of their physical powers and also tend to ride them for short periods only, apart from some exceptions (who will appear on this thread very shortly to denounce me) and they also are prepared to pay for the servicing.

Put the same full susser in the hands of a teenage whippet (Cullen-Bay I'm talking about you) and it will be completely worn out in short order, but not from lack of maintenance.

So that's why you should buy a rigid hardtail (preferably SS) - in case your inner teenage whippet breaks loose and wears out your bike. 🙂

I have an old 2006 S-Works Endure and a 456ti.

I've resigned myself to the fact that the 456ti gets all of the UK to play in whilst the Enduro is only really used for trips to the Alps.

I'd take the 456ti to the Alps too if I wasn't scared of being uncomfortable after the first day or two.

The hardtail is more rewarding as I know I need to be more skillful and pick my way through more horrific bits. This leads to more feedback and I find that all the more rewarding.

The Enduro is great but I may as well be riding down steep tarmac slopes rather than some rocky trail in the Peaks.

As I maintain, rear suspension is a skill compensator.

get HT frame and swap all your bits over, flog the frame when you realise Hardtails are just better.

Maybe if you can't afford both you couuld build up a hardtail without the wheels and saddle, and swap those bits between bikes. If you bought a cheap but fun frame, like an On-One, you could try it out for 'cheap',

My HT (Cove Handjob) is more fun than when my FS (Nicolai Helius CC) isn't as much fun, but when it is it's definitely more fun on the FS.

Both is a requirement, so when you mods fancies it you can pick and choose

Done the same as you been doing it for a year now had a hardtail then went full sus. Soon realised the full sus was heavy and not required for most stuff i do so i purchased a Carbon 456. I took the full sus to Wales as advised by most.

Soon as i finished in wales i thought to my self there was nothing there that i could not have done on a HT and i think also at the same speed. yes there is some roots that you clatter over but then again you choose line better on your HT...

I have now sold the Full sus and love my carbon 456. It is my do it all bike and i would not choose anything else over it.

Hope this helps.

I'm a blonde HTler, and definitely have more fun. 8)

On most trails I don't find it that much slower on the descents, and I love the way the back kicks up off of rocks etc. It's soooo much more rewarding to ride than my 140 mm FS.

In fact, I don't have a FS trail bike at all now and keep the big bike pretty much for uplifts only (and I'm even thinking about HT for the next one of those).

oh man, the thread has taken a turn for the HT massive, just as I was getting convinced to stay firmly put in the FS camp 🙂 I think Im gonna have to borrow one for a bit and see how it goes before I take the step of buying a frame. Loving the look of the Carbon 456 muscle or the Ti for lightness and simplicity.

+1 for the 'when I have a full susser I want a hardtail, and when I have a hardtail I want a full susser!

Now I have a baby, I have found my riding has changed, Gone are the days of all day jaunts into the mountains, and in are the 2 hr blasts around my local woods. I am thinking about trading in my Scott Genius and getting a hardtail, but if I do that I know I will want the Scott back

Who Knows! best to splash out and have one of each!

Forget about the bike your dale is a lovely bit of kit. Spend some cash on 121 training instead.

A decent single pivot on a propedal shock is the prefect trail bike as far as I'm concerned. Suspension is good for off road riding. It makes perfect sense, better traction, more comfort, higher speeds, what's not to like?

HT's are great too but selling a carbon rush for one seems a bit odd to me.

I think it's a good question. I've never ridden a full-sus (apart from once or twice for a little bit that I didn't like) and I do wonder about getting one, especially up here in North Wales as it can be a bit rocky and you can get a bit battered on a hT, so a giant anthem would be a good compromise to my light 115mm XC hardtail. but saying that I just want the right bike for the right conditions. I have a mate that I ride with that has a 40lb full 6 incher that I ride with and his bike is totally inappropriate for all but 10% of what he rides but he swears it's ace. He pushes it a lot, but won't listen to reason cos he's into an image, I let him off cos he's 19. I can ride my HT pretty much anywhere, not particularly fast, but I loves it and it challenges me.

I've gone the other way and started getting into road riding through, slowly adapting a mtb frame, then a wrong sized old road frame. Then to going a bit proper roady recently. When I get back on the mtb it feels really soft and squashy. It's a good balance of different types of cycling I think, so I don't get bored over time.

Horses for courses, just gotta get the right horse for the course. It's all good.

This is why people end up with loads of bikes!

Joolsburger - 121 training is high up on my list and am thinking of using UK bike skills. Maybe if a pro taught me how to ride faster, smoother it may make a difference to my bike choice outlook.

People love change. Thats not a problem just human nature.

I think alot of this debate is pushed forward by the desire for change, not that one is better than the other......

If after all that you want to try a hard tail find a second hand cotic soul swap the bits but hang onto your rush frame. You can then swap around as you see fit (ok it might take u an hour or two) but if you know youve got some long distance days planned use the rush frame, if you are riding locally or in the mud use the Cotic. and if u dont get on you wont loose money on a second hand cotic

ps. you mention problems with the front lifting when climbing, move your saddle forward on the rails or get an inline post if poss, your setup looks quite rear biased

luckely i have both, a lovely Orange five pro with extras and also a trek 6700 HT. I enjoy both bikes equaly, i use which ever bike depending where i am riding. yes the full sus is quicker in some circumstances but so is the HT in others.

Also this time of year i tend to use the HT more than the full sus, mainly because i tend to ride more local stuff like Llandegla when the weathers shit. And a HT tail is more than enough for there.

Next year im thinking of getting a Ibis tranny and building a big forked HT up. I look at the HT to full sus as to differnet beasts and ride dependant will determine which i take for a spin.

hmm.
when i got back into riding i was on an old kona kula HT. then i went out and bought a cannondale prophet. then an inbred SS came up cheap. i flogged the prophet. should have kept it, as i now have an orange 5, which is very similar really.
FWIW i don't think the difference between HT and FS is so clear cut. a racy FS and a light weight HT will both challenge on the downs due to their weight and setup. a heavier HT and a 'bigger' FS will feel more comfortable and manageable on the downs, but unless you're screwing the last 10th of a second out of a climb you'll only notice you've been working harder to carry teh extra weight at the end of a ride.
i have an orange P7 with a coil pike and an alfine that weighs 33lb (!), but sometimes i forget it has no suspension, if feels so similar to the five in the way it rides, and i do find that i sometimes point it at lines i wouldn't take on my SS HT through choice.
i suppose what i'm saying is that light is not necessarily good. and some horse are for some courses. decide what you want out of a bike, and buy the sort of bike that will do that for you.
but you need both. 🙂

titusrider, I think a cheap second hand frame is a really good idea and then I could chop and change through seasons rather than weeks.

Coming from the Scott I was familiar and comfotable with a more stretched out ride. I actually swapped my inline post for a layback to achieve this. However if Im not sat in the 'right position'the frame wont be reacting or performing like it was designed I guess.

Is the seat position personal preference or is there a right and a wrong?
Maybe my 121 coaching could advise what may suit.

After having a ride on a mates full sus, I loved how fast it felt and could just plough through everything - I almost moved up to one, but just couldn't justify the cost and extra weight. Maybe when I'm riding something more hardcore, but for now I can downhill just fine on a hardtail, as can a few others who I have ridden with. Yes it's probably a bit slower but I think if I had a full sus I would feel like I was cheating as it flattens things, but at the same time this makes it faster which is also fun!

Think I'm just one of those people who will do things the hard way for a greater reward - like with guitar I play with thicker strings as I find thin strings make it too easy and boring, I need to fight the guitar 😆

Am I mental for considering doing the Fort William endurance dh on my BFe?