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I've been running XC717 rims on hope XC hubs for ages now and fancied building a new set of wheels with Pro IIs as I want to learn how to build wheels and also because I'd like to upgrade to some QR 15 forks at some point.
Originally I was planning on going with 717's again but I wondered if I should go to something bigger given that I now seem to run bigger tyres (2.25 nobby nics at the moment) compared to when I started riding. I also thought I might give tubeless a punt. Anyway this got me looking at 819s, i didn't realise how much heavier these were though when you consider the inserts for the spokes. So now I'm considering no tubes flows, the stuff about not having eyelets and requiring low spoke tension concerned me a bit though. Would anyone have any reservations about using these for my first build or have any other suggestions.
(I've bought that guys pdf on wheel building already)
TIA
If it were me doing my first build, I'd go for something that can take a bit of tension. No issue with over doing it then.
Also, keep a wheel next to you so you can refer to the lacing pattern.
In use, I'd rather have a flow rim. Nothing touches it for the combination of strength, width and weight. As for the low tension issue, it's something that concerned me when I built my first set of stan's rims. Despite being evenly built and all my previous wheels being durable, these went out of true. So, I compared my low spoke tension to some Hope Hoops and cranked them up. They've been spot on since. My advise would be to oil the rim/nipple interface when you build them and tension like any other rim. It's worked for me. YMMV
Lack of eyelets doesn't mean low spoke tension. Maybe less than you can use on a rim with eyelets, but still plenty enough (and more than a lot of cheap eyeletted wheels are built with). I certainly didn't make the spoke tension on my Olympics any lower than I have done on the wheels I've built with Mavic eyeletted rims, and not had any problems.
I'm guessing by "low tension" he was referring to the Stan's recommendation of 95-100 kgf which I found to be way to low. It left the non drive side at 70 ish which wasn't enough to stop the tension coming off.
I'm guessing by "low tension" he was referring to the Stan's recommendation of 95-100 kgf which I found to be way to low.
Fairy nuff - I don't have a tension meter, so mine get done by musical tone and comparison with existing wheels. I expect they're far higher than Stans recommends.
Maybe for a 1st build the 819s would be better, they're as hard as nails but you can't deny the width/weight benefits of the Flows.
I agree that Mavics are "easier" to build as a novice. But the Flow works find if you take you're time. The OP would have to be somewhat hand fisted to get it wrong with the wheelpro book which I assume is the one he means.
First wheel I build was a 321D. Not sure I learned a lot about spoke tension on that one. Couldn't build one of those out of true if you tried.
My first ever build was on an MA2. Spokes were so low tension that the nipples unscrewed on the first ride 😳
Build my first wheel with a flow recently, did OK, reference to spare exiting wheel helped
Numpty question for you, but if you've been riding 717s for ages, have you considered Crests? They're significantly lighter but offer the same strength. Not that it's particularly relevant, but they can also be pretty much swapped straight in for 717s on a particular hub, as the ERD is more or less the same.
819s are harder to build than Stans, not helped by the fact you're doing it 'blind' - you can't see how much thread you've got left in the nipples.
Stan's all the way - although if you're after a 717 comparator I'd look at Creats or Arches.
Cheers for the responses everyone, I might give the no tubes a go then. I had thought maybe I could get away with something lighter (eg a crest) but it was mainly just me being conservative, the flows are the same weight (or less) than the 717s and thought through some illogical reasoning that must imply some equivalent strength. Then again maybe I could do with something beefier if I'm not taking a weight penalty over my current setup.
It's the wheel pro guide i have and I'm fine with my current wheels for the time being, it was going to be a project over Christmas for when I got fed up with crap TV so intend to take my time with it.
Now just got to decide whether I'm going flow, arch or crest I guess. oh and spokes, I run super comps at the moment but maybe if i'm saving all this weight at the rim I should save money and go with comps, they're a damn sight easier to get hold of!
ok my stuff about weight up there was rubbish, I reckon it's between crests or arches, arches are only another 25g for each wheel over a 717, I'll probably just go with them
all other things being equal, which they are not, my understanding is that flows are substantially wider than crests or arches.
Correct, although even Crests are significantly wider than 717s.
As for spokes, try ActionSports.de, cheap and hold good stock. Got my Revolutions from them.
1st wheel I built was a flow: still true, no ripped out nipples ( 😳 ) after 2yrs
either I'm a wheelbuilding god or they're not that hard to do
(or else I ride like an elderly nun)
Sapim spokes have a good following, a number of the top wheel builders use them.
I checked the tensions on a pair of flow hoops earlier and i would honestly say that if you decide to use the flow you would have to be very hamfisted to go cranking it all up to a higher tension than hope hoops go out the factory at. If you are asking this question and reading about this issue then I think you should give it a go bit by bit and once you get it into shape and add a bit of tension.. take it along to a shop and get their opinion. By the time you get it to the point where you think its o.k. I recon that itll still be a bit under tension after a bit of stressing to be honest but im sure you`ll know where to draw the line and seek a second opinion.