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I was over in Delamere today and picked up a couple of information sheets concerning a consultation over plans for the forest. There are extensive plans to alter the visitors center, but of more concern are the plans to put in a major log cabin development, up near the old hospital, and put in blue and green grade cycling routes. It looks like there is a significant prospect for the loss of some of the natural riding in the area.
For those, who like me, do a lot of Mountain Biking in Delamere it is probably worth having a look at: http://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/INFD-8R5DRW
As a user of Delamere forest, the new plans look great, lots of new jobs created,in construction and serviceing, a nice new wooden centre, lets hope they can recycle the old one, either for burning for fuel or sold for a new use,then there is the better access to the site for vehicles, abnd parking for coaches.
3 things stand out, the jumps area, will not have any verge parking nearby, nearest car parking will be the existing car park further down the road, verge parking will not be allowed the whole length of the bisecting road from the railway bridge to the junction.This will make us all use the car park whicha charge will most probably be levied.
Nothing on the plans says anything about lighting of the car parks to deter thieves, or allow longer opening hours, of the car parks.
78 wooden chalets are going to be built to get paying customers in at the top of the hill near the jumps area, by the old hospital,along with a ew access road to them.
All the existing structures look to be going with a twin new build centre, so a better bike shop not a wooden container, and a better shop.
Otherwise its a win win situation.I cant wait for it to happen,along with metro link trams from Manchester in the pipeline.
Trams aren't gonna be any use to get there for biking - they don't allow bikes on them!
But theyre cheaper than trains and the drivers dont get paid as much .
Bring back nice steam trains and set the forest alight.
The natives are rebeling, and theyre going to loose.
'lose'
Taking a balanced view, there will be pros and cons associated with the development. The consultation process is an opportunity for stakeholders to put forward their opinion, most developments expect a degree of give and take, in order to get through planning.
I agree the visitors center redevelopment looks good and I like the idea of family biking away from people and dogs. But not at the price of the existing natural trails. There are similar developments in uk , but the forest are bigger, Delamere is a relatively small forest.
But its a designed and designated as a timber farm, for the cultivation of trees, for timber, to which the public have access with permission, the FC are looking for new income streams to support this work,and what they are planning to do will help subsidise the forest for a considerable time, thyve put out a consultation document,for the natives to have a look at,and as per usual all the nimbys join forces to say no, they did the same for ince marshes recycling scheme, and the glass factory, and lost,without change we would have no developement, its not like the FC are going to build an ASDA there.
Roll on the future.
Ps, other forests are available.
I'm not sure I understand where you are coming from Project, I thought this was a mountain biking forum. It may be better to post your views on the CADD website.
People complained when LLandegla was being converted from a tree farm to a mountain biking centre, and now its so popular and drags a lot of walkers,twitchers and horse riders there.
Same with all the redeveloped trail centres and forests.
Like i said the FC owns the forest,just like people own their own gardens, and theyre allowed to do what they like,but at least theyre asking what peeps want, along with puting forward great plans for the area and theyre not banning cyclists and mountainbikers, just upgrading the facilites to the modern age, some trails may be lost but more will be created and improved.
It may be a relatively small forest but it is plenty big enough for everyone, not so long ago it was almost sold off so lets not forget that.
It wont harm many of the natural trails anyway as there are lots of them, i dont see it as a bad thing at all and you can always chuck in a quick blast along a blue/green trail while out on a ride.
Blue graded trail @ Delamere would be good imho, lets face it after the recent tree harvest any new maintained trail would be a bonus, riding up by the TB hospital has been mullered by it anyway, just incorporate the blue trail into your natural ride & its a winner I reckon.
Having seen the maps for the blue and green trails they do not look that extensive, and will only mean a few of the natural trails being changed. The suggested grades are green and blue, so at least one should be single track. I suppose it all depends on who they bring in to design and build the trails. So could be good for an XC blast when it's quiet and for winter evening solo rides, when I'm not feeling brave enough to head deeper into the forest.
My main reason for starting this thread was to highlight the plans to other mountain bikers who use Delamere, as it came as a complete surprise to me. From experience it is better contribute to the consultation than sit on the side lines and complain later.
commercially this is a great idea for delamere. given it's location, it really doesn't need to cater for mtb at all from a cash viewpoint. although a red would be possible (similar to cannock)a blue is a family friendly compromise.
as long as they don't pinch the best natural bits for the blue then this would be welcome from my viewpoint. mix it up a bit. currently, a 30km tour of delamere on a rainy december evening can feel like a lot like 40km anywhere else. a bit of armoured trail would be amazing for tired legs.
is delamere large enough for all that they are proposing? probably not.
buzz, do you have a link to the maps of the blue and green trail proposal?
I think it looks quite interesting. Never ridden the proper trails but know a few people who'll like the new family routes
Curlie, this is the full plan:
If the link does not work it's document 07b on the fc website.
I like Delamere what i dont like about the above is the CONTROL aspect. When I ride Delamere I enjoy the " off piste" routes and as far as the price of the parking at the central/ cafe area its a joke.
I/ we park of the road running through the forest this allows you ride when it suits you rather than be tied to gate opening/ closing times.
I believe that we are subsidising the FC through the till prices at the cafe... or is it that I'm out of touch with parking prices. Llandegla doesnt cost this much
This idea has been discussed at length by local riders and it tends to generate responses which are relatively positive through to vehement opposition. I live 300 yards from the northern end of the forest so i guess i'm somewhat biased but there we go...
I like the idea of the new visitor centre. The current one is struggling to cope in terms of numbers at busy weekends and the parking provision is inadequate. If they look at the road layout at the same time then that would be great as there have been some near misses on the access road with drivers going too fast past the railway bridge.
I guess my concern is one of 'control'. I can see us losing access to many of the informal trails which really define riding at Delamere. The Kingswood area will become off limits to maintain security for the lodges so areas like Waterloo and Toms Tunnel will be almost impossible to ride. I worry that riders will slowly be restricted to riding on the purpose made trails with access removed from the informal stuff. Its this creeping management i worry about.
🙁
If this was a proposal for a new visitor centre and improved parking management then fine. I think most local riders would rather they gave the purpose built trail idea a miss. Its a small forest and nothing like Cannock or Llandegla and should be treated as such. I hope the FC don't try and force too much into too small a space.
The only thing that concerns me is the security around the holiday cabins, i just hope that they dont fence off that whole area and that you can still go around the perimeter of the forest which is always a good default route, the run down the fence up near the hospital is a favourite of many.
I dont think we will lose much in the way of natural trails even though it is a relatively small forest, there is plenty of it for everyone, parking doesnt worry me.
Also, the proposed blue route looks like it could be fun, it goes on a good route and as said before, can be incorporated into a ride and used for a good blast out of the mud etc.
Like i said the FC owns the forest,just like people own their own gardens, and theyre allowed to do what they like
We own it, they're just looking after it for us. I happen not to like the plans, other views are available. The whole place struggles to be more than a couple of miles wide and a couple long in each direction. It's already slightly overdeveloped for me, the new plans would bring more people into less space. The space that's left would be increasingly sanitised.
The powers that be have a habit of grooming the soul out of our semi-wild places. (I'm more than aware that it's not a natural environment.) If that makes me a NIMBY I'll wear the badge proudly.
I am a native and know the forest layout better than most. Anyone who's MTB'd there knows that the natural singletrack and freedom to go anywhere you like is the good stuff. It's nothing like the size of Cannock and a whole lot flatter. Freedom to roam is also the one thing that Delamere's got that Llandegla doesn't have.
The holiday village will effectively make the northern tip of the forest out of bounds or just unappealing. Gradually we'll be penned back as it expands over the years.
Keen on blue and Green loops? I suppose they are good for newbie riders, kids and families. If that's what you look for in a ride, come visit now. There's already plenty of tame riding on waymarked trails if that's your thing.
Delly is well known to be great for a blast but it's not big enough or hilly enough to make anything much better than family friendly trails. Anyone who compares Delamere to Llandegla is sadly mistaken. So far as I know they're proposing to make some smooth bits where mud should be and build some shops. Not perform a geological miracle.
There's a meeting at 7pm Manley Village Hall on Friday 2nd March where you can voice opinions.
I am a native and know the forest layout better than most.
😯 😉
There's a meeting at 7pm Manley Village Hall on Friday 2nd March where you can voice opinions.
I might pop over for that, be good to hear other opinions, especially stuff you havent considered yourself.
Might pop along to this myself on the way back from work. Has this been publicised anywhere else? I guess riders who come up for the Monday and Wednesday night group rides with Dave / Twelve50 might be interested as well...
I ride at Delamere a reasonable amount, especially on a Monday night, when the superbly guided cake fest rides are carried out.
I'm afraid I get a little bit depressed every time this type of action is brought up. I agree with Steve in that the forest is already over commercialised for it's size. It already has a nice cafe (with a second one at the station, and the superb one at the farm near Manley). It already has easier family friendly trails that are marked. It also has the most expensive parking I'm aware of, and I also struggle to see where those parking funds go to.
The forest is being severely cut up and thinned at the moment. I'm fine with that, it's a pain in the arse when it's being done, (as those out with me on the superbly guided cake fest last night will testify to) but new trails will evolve from that. New trails don't evolve from the removal of areas.
And its okay saying other forests are available, but where are they? My other nearest one is at Hanchurch nr Stoke, or Llandegla, which is a different animal.
No I just wish they'd leave it alone and allow it to be a plain old working forest that we can all enjoy as we do now.
Sorry if that's different to others views but it's my opinion, and my opinion's always right 😉
my opinion's always right
😯
haha, I do know exactly what you mean, i dont have a problem with a little green and blue route being lobbed in, or the wild trail etc. the bit that i do think about is the plan for cabins. The more you think about it the more odd it is, just the whole services to that lot will be crazy, road/lighting/security/sewers/gas etc etc
What are the chances of this actually going through anyway? or is it simply being pushed through regardless
We can always burn them down John
Absolutely!
Quite a few years ago, cycling was banned in and on FC land and also at LLandegla, its only been recently that the FC, has seen the benefit of alowing cyclists to use the forest, and the same with LLandegla.
? How many years ago was that?
20 plus probably.
hi all,
another long term user 25+ years of delamere - I know Dave Dodd and echo his thoughts = the northern area up near the old hospital has some superb trails - ones I and my friends have developed over the years - this will be the start of ending access to this part of the forest - I do not want easy tracks there - already enough fire roads which are only really busy at weekdays - I night ride there 2 / 3 times a week and its superb for its wet singletrack - all for a new centre etc but I want to know that access to cabin area wont be adversely affected...
not that many forests in this area that allow such good riding...
paul
Its gunna be a mini centre parks ive heard! ,aimed at doggers& cyclists.
I can only take so much and
"superbly guided"
twice in the same post is just tooooooo much.
Where's your (ss) humility ?
.
.
Main concern is the number of cabins (some are 2 storey) and the extent of development around them, fencing off for security, subsequent need for a social centre with a bar, pool table, Sky, gym,..... and then more cabins.....
It's not that clear to me how much replanting there will be around the cabins either?
.
I'm not against development per se but wouldn't it be better to put the cabins on the outskirts of the forest eg south of the road to the VC and keep the forest as ..... relatively unspoilt forest for everyone to enjoy?
Interesting times.....
Native here - 3 times/week user for 20 years....
I'm relieved that this isn't the Center Parcs development that has been rumoured for years to be happening at the Marley Tiles site! If that happens AS WELL as this - then I fear for our riding at Delamere at all!
My family rides on a Saturday morning have been curtailed in thelast 12 months simply because access to the forest from our end (through the Whitelfields car park) is just too busy - I really do fear anything that either attracts more users or hems users into a smaller area will make things even more difficult.
I am all for progress, but Delamere is a small place and the developments in recent years (better cafe, Go Ape, bike hire, more parking) have already done enough, in my opinion, to fill up a limited resource.
just had a look at the map, and it looks like it will get rid of speeders ally (kingsly run) which is one of my favorite bits 🙁
Hi all,
I am going to this meeting and I will email my concerns re access to that area. I dont particularly want ths to go ahead but I am not sure the FC will listen when it sees £.... and lets face it it needs it...
Any buildings up there will adversely affect the feel to the area in my opinion - I ride there a lot as its generally quieter and I enjoy the trails - especially the perimeter ' scoobie ' and what we call ' ho chi min ' that ace bit that runs up to the perimeter scoobies...
Doing away with the verge parking sucks as a lot of people park there and thus depriving the FC of more £....
The caravan site near Hatchmere and also Fishponds one has brought a lot more people in - i guess there must be a demand for the log cabins then I suppose - but why stick them up so far away from the ' wonderful ' rail links and any pub etc for food... Are these cabins really going to be filled up all year round? All the infrastructure is going to detract from the forest environment...
Plus the green / blue route and nature trail - sounds a bit disney world.... theres a lot of fire road already - its not needed
Been an article on Radio Miseryside this morning, on the Tony Snely show, about 8.06am for the iplayer.
Good info from the lady from the FC, and usual nimbyism from the delamere native.
No matter what locals say and think it will go ahead, there is big money involved for the comunity.
Hi all,
as an update - I was there - Project - did you go? You seem quite keen on the proposal - do you not worry at all about the forest experience being ruined by these cabins? As to paraphrase one german sounding guy ' it seems to be funny that the FC are encouraging more cars and less trees now..'
There was a TV report on it today as well. The FC will have a fight on their hands this time as other developments have been unopposed.
I went the meeting along with 250 others and the 2 x Fc reps. I really felt for the main FC holiday bloke as he was very genuine but out of his depth re questioning and he got flayed alive by cheshire exec types.
I was assured by him that our access would NOT change at all - however a number of the biking trails will be lost by the placement of these cabins. New trails can evolve etc but the feel of the forest will change.
Some questions were from 'nimbies' but an awful lot were normal types -runners / bikers / horsey types ( who are scared of bikes etc - I did my best to talk to them ) and reps from british orienteering who stated that if this goes ahead their competitions will end and nowhere else in cheshire can host them.
In a nutshell - 47 acres of woodland are under threat - a lot of the trees are however near their end of life and the area is a monoculture and ideal for development.... there will be more trees planted to add to the environment..
The FC chap could not answer basic ' business plan ' questions nor questions regarding lease / enviroment / Co2 studies etc. At one point the guy said access will not be changed nor will the forest character and we can walk where we want - to which a lady said ' i cannot walk thru any of these cabins'... they are HUGE in size - think size of a parish hall and not a twee little yurt - some are 2 storeys with treehouses.... If anyone can be bothered to look at the books of Forest holidays - they dont make a huge profit from all their sites combined - its not a lot condsidering their impact.... have a look.
The cabins will cost 1 to 2 k a week to hire and have space for up to 5 people and 2 cars outside on gravel hardstandings - total space for 300 cars. A service fire road will be upgraded to make room for the cars coming and going right through the main central artery of the forest - think about that - noise / disruption and safety aspect - people / horses and dogs / wildlife are at risk from this increased flow of hitherto unprecedented levels of cars - plus all the free parking on thee verges will be prohibited...
Positives for development :
Money into local economy - likely to be chester or frodsham = no local pubs unless you DRIVE through the forest - see above for concerns... the rail links the FC championed are just too far away to have any reaL success in the real world.
15 jobs - mostly from FC grad scheme and all the more menial jobs contracted out - its not going to have a big improvement on local employment in my opinion.
Money into the economy and also for the FC - which is a good thing...
I feel the cabins should be built elsewhere - on a brownfields site - a new visitor centre is def a good idea but bringing that number of cars / people into an already crowded forest is folly in my opinion. I ride / run there for the solitude and I dont want to be dodging cabins every 5 mins or having to look out for cars in an otherwise quiet secluded bit of the wood.
Its ironic that the cabins are being built for the ' forest experience ' but there very existence impacts that celebrated ' experience'. I doubt my night rides will be the same watching badgers and owls when theres a load of brightly lit cabins with cars coming and going all the time.
If anyone is intereted please contact the cadd website / email the FC direct. Watch this space. More info here http://www.cadd.me.uk/
paul
Just to add to this....
We had a long chat with one of the forest rangers at the weekend. Her view was that FC are doing this to pre-empt the possible Center Parcs development at Marley Tiles and to make sure that FC can maintain ownership of the forest in the long term. If successful, there is no way a Center Parcs development could ever happen - if FC are not successful, we could see a massive CP development that would destroy the forest environment for good.....
...I thought this was an interesting perspective & surprised it didn't come up at Friday's meeting (which I couldn't get to, unfortunately).
I'm afraid you are wrong about the center parcs bit. CP will never develop another site in GB, the length of time for planning the woburn site convinced them not to bother again, and they have saturated the market anyway. The next site, if built, will be in Ireland (N or S).
In the big scale of things it doesn't look like much of a development, from reading this thread it appears like its taking a huge part of the site. I think people forget that it wasn't long ago we were going to lose all the woodlands, FC needs to start paying its way.
With regards to the CP site, due to the depth of the quarry lake at the old Marley tiles and any residual chemicals in the land / buildings etc the cost would be too great for them to even bother developing a site there.