[Closed] Cycle/motorist relations - can we do anything?

I'm a cyclist and my wife is a motorist. Our relations are mostly in the Outer Hebrides.

Seriously though? I don't think we're really talking about two different groups of people (e.g. I also drive)

Is there some thing we can do ?

YES....

In the words of Charlie the Bikemonger at SSUK

[b][u]DON'T BE A DICK[/u][/b] 😆

Stop buying into the latest media craze that there's a war on Britain's roads. There isn't. I'd have noticed it. Occasionally there's a crash. Sadly, sometimes even a tragedy. Yes, the crazed righteous and wannabe-oppressed make a lot of angry noise. The other 99.999% of us just get on with our day, and enjoy the jumped up clipshows that crop up as alleged documentaries.

The truth is that whilst special infrastructure would be nice, we already have plenty of infrastructure, we just share most of it with motorists. If we could just get our message across then we might be able to make what we have work better.

I'm afraid I wasn't helping cyclist driver relations with what I called that lady who left hooked me last night, only two words, but shouted with passion and conviction, sorry 😳

If we could just get rid of the road users who dont know how to use the roads safely that would be a good start.

I think that cyclists and motorists get on really well on the roads.

It's the people who drive vehicles and ride bikes that dont.

I'd like to think I give cyclist lots of time, consideration and extra room on the roads because I'm an all round good guy. But in reality its probably because I cycle so I know what its like to be on the roads.

Therefore the answer is to have more people cycling in the first place. Then the divide between motorist and cyclist will disappear as there will be lots of over lap between the two groups

fatboyslo +1

lots of us (on here) drive too.

drive like a saint around bikes - do your bit to make it the 'normal' thing to do.

(oh, and don't ride like a dick)

We can all do our own bit, personal responsibility.

Stop at red lights and zebra crossings, don't ride on the pavement, give a smile and a cheery wave when a driver holds back from an unsafe pass or a left hook. Sometimes, dare I say it, concede to a motor vehicle if it makes more sense for all concerned to do so, even if technically you have "right of way".

edlong +1

I have started thanking (thumbs up etc) vehicles that obviously take the time to pass cautiously when riding in busy places.

I do the same on the motorbike when cars obviously move out of the way for me when filtering.

perception is reality.
if cyclists stopped running red lights, then that would be one less BIG stick for motorists to beat us with.
if you want to use the roads like the other traffic, then behave in the same way and abide by the same rules.

I think it's about more people cycling so that you understand how terrifying close overtaking is. I have to say that I quite often tell drivers if they've passed too close and I catch up with them at lights. I'm pretty polite and say I was terrified, tell them that the road surface is rubbish and you can't always hold a precise line so there's always a possibility that a near miss can end very badly etc and look female :-). So far, all drivers have been very apologetic.

After a bad week one lorry driver was particularly patient as I toiled up a local hill - held back and overtook me with lots of room once he had better visibility. He stopped half a mile later at the butty stop - so did I to say thank you. He said no worries, he was a cyclist too… which probably goes to show that more people cycling will increase consideration for cyclists.

the Russians seem to have one option..

[img] [/img]

Although I'm guessing that is a bit like the summer version of the biathlon. Cool.

Assuming you drive a car well, ride your bike in the same manner would be the most obvious thing to do. It does bother me more when I see cyclists behaving badly because I know how much damage it causes.

After that yes, we should be encouraging the perspective that the mode of transport is entirely irrelevant. The road is a shared resource, we're all in this together, there's good road users and bad road users and it's the latter than need a number doing on them be it through education or formal governance.

if you want to use the roads like the other traffic, then behave in the same way and abide by the same rules.

just sayin like.

The problem is there are two types of cyclists,

People who love riding bikes

and

People who have bikes.

The later often being more of a problem.

Brakes +1
Anyone with a fair pair of leggs doesn't mind stopping, its another chance to build muscle, unless your racing in which case: naughty you and it's on your own recognisance.
Nobody mentioned STRAVA yet? 😉

It's a Shame but in the UK a bike is viewed as a child's toy by 95% of adults, and not a sensible transport option. Adult cyclists are therefore weird to most, sub person, lower than motorists, less deserving or even in need of punishment if they get in the way.... They should'play' on their bikes out of the way of real people in proper cars.
On the continent, France, Holland etc the attitude is very different and cyclists are respected, almost honoured!
These sorts of attitudes take generations to change, it's like racism.
Constant campaigning for better bike infrastructure and safer roads, like the London cycle campaign/go Dutch is probably best. It gets more people cycling, we are slowly seen as normal, the most hateful motorists son start getting friends and relations that cycle... And start to change.

I would support a law change to the Dutch style in the meantime, to protect cyclists from the most angry and some of the most careless motorists.

Yeah, what andyl said. We all need to get tooled up and take some of those poor-driving mother****s out. We wouldn't need to kill *that* many people before motorists would start to give cyclists respect due to there being a fair chance of getting shot in the face for buzzing one.

I'm kidding. Mostly.

I think we're looking too much at the cyclists here.

'Safe' drivers, who are paying attention and obeying the law and the Highway Code, are very rarely killed or injured when cyclists crash into them.

'Safe' cyclists, who are paying attention and obeying the law and the Highway Code, are killed or injured on a regular basis when drivers crash into them.

The incident described in [i]that[/i] tweet had nothing to do with attitudes towards cyclists, it was all about a sh*t driver doing some sh*t driving and clobbering someone else. If every cyclist was an angel the incident would still have unfolded in exactly the same way. If she was driving properly it wouldn't have. It's lucky for her that it was 'only' a cyclist. If it had been another car or a pointy bit of farm machinery then she wouldn't have been around to tweet about it afterwards.

Singlespeed_Shep - Member

The problem is there are two types of cyclists,

People who love riding bikes

and

People who have bikes.

The later often being more of a problem.

I disagree. The small cluster of idiots riding bikes in Callander a couple of weeks back were on posh bikes, wearing 'polite' cycling bibs, heading off for a bivvy - yet were blocking road, no signals, weaving about etc etc.

as i said on the other thread .

drivers dont even respect each other..... roads are chaos what ever mode of transport your are in.

As above..

On the bike ...Don't be a Dick

In the car ...Don't be a Dick

On the motorbike ...Don't be a Dick

When I am in the car or on the motorbike, and I need to overtake a cyclist,I always look in the mirror ,just to see if the car behind me has learned from my demonstration of good driving.
I give these demos for free,it's part of my ,educate the masses plan 😆

[quote=Singlespeed_Shep]
The problem is there are two types of cyclists,

People who love riding bikes

and

People who have bikes.

The later often being more of a problem.

I think this is often the case in cities, out of cities its a different thing, as it tends to be a whole different set of users - or the same users in a different mode. Lead by example is a rule of thumb I try to go with.

I've noticed people following me over taking cycles, often go wide as I did, whereas those I am following did not. Not scientific, and doesn't always happen but pretty sure there is a trend.

If we could just get rid of the road users who dont know how to use the roads safely that would be a good start.

Serious answer.......

Ride our bikes?

The more bikes on the road demonstrating it's a mode of transport, rather than some yohurt weaving hippie lifestyle choice or lycra clad vendetta against cars, the better.

I like to think that for every 100 cars I filter past, 99 froth at the mouth and want blood, but one rides into work next week. Then there'll be two of us, then 4, 8 etc untill the frothing loons become the minority.

Unfortunately driving standards down south are terrible (cause or result of the roads being busier and the M4/M25 being closed 9 rush hours out fo 10?) so I commute off road!

You know whats helping me gain momentum on the cycle to work innitiitive at the office

The fact that it takes nearly 40minutes to get over the bridge to the main road and a further 40 to get out of the industrial estate. I am home in 45 minutes m

Did anyone else hear on the BBC radio news that with the advice of the AA and other motoring bodies, the government are going to implement a cyclist awareness part to all driving lessons and tests.
Oh I hope this is the case. It's something that's been needed for many years.

Cars are just too comfortable and safe to drive nowadays and most drivers have little or no idea what it's like to cycle on roads.

We all have to do our bit. I mention the fact I cycle to most people I know and drop into the conversation how scary it is to ride on roads, this gets them thinking.

[quote=unklehomered ]
I've noticed people following me over taking cycles, often go wide as I did, whereas those I am following did not. Not scientific, and doesn't always happen but pretty sure there is a trend.
+1 I think it's possible to "set an example" when we are driving.

We all have to do our bit. I mention the fact I cycle to most people I know and drop into the conversation how scary it is to ride on roads, this gets them thinking.

Like compulsory helmets it might be counter productive. Tell them it's great and they might ride to work and remove the 'problem' (cars) entirely. Tell them it's horrible and they'll stay in cars.

Singlespeed_Shep - Member
The problem is there are two types of cyclists,
People who love riding bikes
and
People who have bikes.
The later often being more of a problem.

I disagree. The small cluster of idiots riding bikes in Callander a couple of weeks back were on posh bikes, wearing 'polite' cycling bibs, heading off for a bivvy - yet were blocking road, no signals, weaving about etc etc.

Absolutely. I have an encouragingly tiny collection of anecdotes regarding blatant cycle commuting stupidity, but all feature someone in lycra on an expensive bike (and none directly involved me). The "real" cyclists seem more prone to bloody mindedness and a sense of higher rights - and judging from their posts on forums, an imagined martyr status too. The people on cheap bikes in office clothes just ride to work and back, no trouble, no fuss.

EDIT: The people with cheap bikes and office clothes also make up the majority by a long long way, which is good.

I like to think that for every 100 cars I filter past, 99 froth at the mouth and want blood, but one rides into work next week. Then there'll be two of us, then 4, 8 etc untill the frothing loons become the minority.

This. When the motorway's blocked by an accident, I'll take the main roads home that are nose-to-tail with traffic. I'm hoping that the odd driver will see me (cautiously and carefully) filtering past and think "Lucky fella, he'll be home before me. Thinking about it, I could probably ride to work the odd time, it's not THAT far, and I've got that bike in the back of the garage that's never really been used...."

I like to think that for every 100 cars I filter past, 99 froth at the mouth and want blood, but one rides into work next week. Then there'll be two of us, then 4, 8 etc untill the frothing loons become the minority.

Tell me when you reach reality.

Wonder if car insurers giving a cyclists' discount would help matters. Make you prove you're riding your bike once a week using Strava or some such perhaps? Sure, it can be circumvented, but it would be a start.

Like people have observed here, you're more likely to be a considerate driver where bikes are concerned if you're a cyclist yourself.

Wonder if there's a niche for a "cyclists only" motor insurer to pop up using this?

'Safe' drivers, who are paying attention and obeying the law and the Highway Code, are very rarely killed or injured when cyclists crash into them.

'Safe' cyclists, who are paying attention and obeying the law and the Highway Code, are killed or injured on a regular basis when drivers crash into them.

Yes. Cyclists need to stop criticising 'bad' cyclists (which seems to be very fashionable at the moment). When this attitude is re-inforced by perceived 'qualified' indivudals, it only serves to confirm the suspicions of the more judgemental road users out there. Especially when the 'bad' cyclist comments are so often thrown at perfectly law-abiding cyclists, as is often the case. But even the rule-breakers cannot be put into the same context as bad drivers.

Riding a bike should be so simple that a child can do it safely. It's about time we stop blaming the most vulnerable road users. I believe the real problem with so called bad cycling is bad infrastructure.

Following on from someone's post here I've started to acknowledge motorists who are considerate. I've also tried to keep down the anger when they're not and passed it on to other commuters I know to try.

Not sure how much it helps, but I certainly am a lot less wound up. Getting angry at inconsiderate drivers wasn't helping anyone in the end.

I find sometimes I wave at cyclists, like I might if I was passing them while riding a bike, the difference being, I'm doing it from behind the wheel... It might be if I've had to sit behind them for a bit until I can see to overtake, or just driving the otherway.

No idea how this comes off, only had a few responces. If done to me I'd probably assume someone I knew, or a cyclist. I think...

I always acknowledge considerate drivers.

I've also noticed that if I give a cyclist lots of room the driver behind me often does too. Driver education by stealth 🙂

I've also noticed that if I give a cyclist lots of room the driver behind me often does too. Driver education by stealth

This is true. Monkey see, monkey do. Not that I'm calling people monkeys, but there's a social ecosystem on the road, which comes down to what is acceptable amongst peers. The best you can do is lead by example.

I've tried "Don't be a dick" and you know what? It doesn't make any difference. I'm not at all convinced that dislike/disrespect for cyclists stems from or is influenced by cyclist behaviour- I think it's just the feeble justification of something that would exist even if we were all good as gold.

DBAD

On a bike or in a car.

Or in life at all really.

That's all you can do.

I've also noticed that if I give a cyclist lots of room the driver behind me often does too. Driver education by stealth

This is true. Monkey see, monkey do. Not that I'm calling people monkeys, but there's a social ecosystem on the road, which comes down to what is acceptable amongst peers. The best you can do is lead by example.

Spot on. Psychologists will tell you that we all seek to adhere to social norms. Lead by example, whether as a pedestrian, driver and cyclist. The rest we have to leave up to the campaigning groups, legislation and education...

There are a few things which are beginning to make traction now which can only help...
Carlton Reid popping up everywhere whenever there's a 'car tax' story
Driving schools are including how to drive round cyclists in their training (see Roadcc)
Our ability as a community to kick up a media storm a la Emma Way, and to make our voices heard.

Slowly, I think we may be beginning to make progress...