[Closed] Cracking the 20mph average barrier....

too quick for me...

do you ever go out with chain gangs? or are you a lone type ?

time trials ?

I should add, I have a hidden additional agenda. I road ride solo so I am secretly trying to work out where I am in the massive ladder of fast/average/slow road riding..... 🙂

I get my averages up by ignoring red traffic lights

Ride out into a good strong wind, reset your comp and head back home

piece of piss 🙂

think you'll find its horses for courses, them that like eyeball out rivet racing , and then the more relaxed ctc types and all sorts in between.

Join a club and get out in a chain gang, or get a mate and do some motor pacing....why the fixation with average speed?

I road ride solo so I am secretly trying to work out where I am in the massive ladder of fast/average/slow road riding.....

Ride somewhere flatter?

I'm a lowly 15mph average on most rides but can up that by 20%+ by keeping to the lower ground.

Dont know...still trying to crack the 10mph average.... 😯

I dropped my handlebars and my average went up noticeably.

lazybike - Member
Join a club and get out in a chain gang, or get a mate and do some motor pacing....why the fixation with average speed?

I guess a measure of "how good I am", plus I'd like to do a sportive and be placed well. I've used it for MTB events - set a percieved achievable average for the ride and stick to it. Not the most scientific but its got me top 5 on 4 events of 6 I've entered.

I've a competitive nature...

intervals or something probably. Try riding at 25 for as far as you can get, then short rest and do it again, and again ?

I'd like to do a sportive and be placed well

you do know sportives aren't races?

why not race if you want to race?

If it's a relatively flat route then losing weight won't make a big difference and aero gains are pretty marginal on a regular road bike.

My suggestion would be to try and include some strength training over the winter as that's what has made a big difference for me in terms of the average speeds I can maintain.

You could try gym work or squats but I find regular hill intervals with low cadence pushing a hardish gear worked best for building my power.

Well ok, maybe a road race or two then.

You'll be fine in the medium fast group in our club (Av. is 19-21 mph). Go and join one. It's much easier in a group.

I'm 45, ride regularly and get dropped by the fast group on Saturdays. But if you aren't trying you aren't improving.

you could always get in touch with lance..... he seems to know how to go quicker than everyone

riding compact? Maybe going for a 52/53 upfront will stop 20mph being such a gurn inducing strain. Also, dare I say it, Strava, then look at which sections of the ride you are dipping below 20 at and compensate as appropriate. knowing where speed is easy to gain and what sort of speed you need to carry uphill to maintain your average (unless you are talking modal average?).

Something else to try that helped me a lot was ignoring the speedo and focussing on heart rate. Using 220-age (30) I set a max heart rte of 190, riding at level 2-3 meant riding anywhere from 120-155 bpm. This is "normal ride" for me, working hard up hill, cruising a bit, being able to chat, not getting dropped but also not dropping slower mates etc etc. By upping my solo rides to staying between 140-165 (zone 3+) I'm keeping the pressure on for a whole ride. Not killing myself, woking normal hardness up hills (maybe a little harder) but also pushing hard on the flats and downhills, quite a bit harder than I expected. If anything I found I took it a bit easier on hills as it was easier to get the HR up so I could rest a little, whilst flat and downhill was proper hard work.

One session a week like this (when I was riding 3 1.5 hour sessions a week and a big ride on sundays) improved my overall speed and fitness no end.

Training for next seasons TT's I shall be doing more riding like this for 45-60 mins rather than longer rides at level 2-3 (due to lack of time/light and weather!)

Good luck

From experience, you'll gain 3-4mph if you get into a similarly paced group in a sportive. That means your 17-18mph will get you to 20mph.

chain gang

I got stuck at 20mph last year. This year I changed:
training properly (being coached - so sessions were to HR, working on my weaknesses, very structured)
riding chaingangs that were at first well out of my 'comfort' zone ie average of 22mph door to door but chaingang sections significantly faster
ride lots. my training plan was between 10-13hr per week and i had no time/energy for anything other than training or resting.
race lots. at least once or twice a month at the start of the season, once a week when i was peaking in july and august.
fuelling well on and off the bike.
resting well
new wheels (50m deep sections that roll so much faster than anything i've used before - don't under estimate how much difference wheels will make!)

Interesting i didn't do much bike training over winter, yet was in my best form ever this summer and went from cat 4 to cat 2 in one season.

I'm not so sure about the Z2 type riding....i know some advocate it, but i read some joe friel stuff that suggested if you "only" have 6-12 hrs per week to train that Z2 detrains athletes and there's nothing wrong with Z3/higher intensity stuff. But if you have 20hrs per week, Z2 seems to be the norm. Personally, i'm going for sticking with the fast chaingang for as long as i can over winter time (being a girl i suffer more than the blokes i ride with in a headwind) so i can step my racing up another level, 2 x more social continential chaingangs ie around 16-18mph, 2 x weights and if i can fit it in, 1 session on the rollers working on cadence / one leg drills.

I'd second the above about strength training.

You need to get stronger so you can spin a higher gear. Hill intervals seated at average cadence with a heavy camelback on (say 5x a 4min + hill, do 2-3 sets once a week as part of a block, finish with a few runs up a really steep one), SSing, riding a loaded bike more often, pushing bigger gears for as far as you can (long intervals in effect) etc, anything like that where there's extended and higher resistance has made a difference for me.

Dunno about thresholds and zones much tbh, never found it did a lot for my long-term fitness, i'm just not good at it ) Great for adding some pep before a big ride, but for me it's too complex and ride-passion-killing to use long-term unless you really understand what works for you and/or are primarily motivated by racing.

Going from 18mph av over a few hours to 20 is quite a jump though, one of my ride-motivators is to ride for 2-3 hrs at whatever pace I could do that day, then try to raise my average a few 10ths in the last hour or so. Not easy at all.

personally, if you cant crack 20mph average on a 20 mile route now there is no way in life you can up that to an avg of 24mph by next year

training wise, everybody works differently so it might not work for you.

Also, stop talking in km's and start in miles.

racing helps but you will be found out if your not upto scratch. sportives are also brilliant ways of doing good times without the fierceness of racing, especially if riding them solo.

for reference, if your doing 17-18mph for 60 miles ( which in road terms isn't alot) then your pretty far off a good rider

Here's 2 solo rides i done last year for reference

[url= http://connect.garmin.com/activity/220635882 ]road ride 1[/url]

[url= http://connect.garmin.com/activity/204491560 ]road ride 2[/url]

So many variables but...

Join a club is the first tip.
You'll improve no end, you will probably get dropped in a really fast group, but that will improve your riding. Riding with better people does make you quicker, or at least it worked for me.

Do some TTs - either races or your own TT routes (Strava will help here)

Use Strava, good way of getting an indication how quick you are. Obviously not all riders use it, but a good percentage do, certainly on the road.

Do you grease yourself before you go out?

Greased ferrets are noticeably faster up drainpipes

bad binners 😆

i don't race/don't ride chaingangs etc so this is a very untechnical approach, but there's a few things i think are useful..

get good at climbing hard (get strava..) - i don't think it's the best way to get a fast overall speed, but when you do those hills at a more measured pace later, it seems a lot easier to recover if you're used to being totally shagged at the top.

don't finish the effort up a hill until you're back to your target speed (i.e. 20mph) then recover at that

in the same way, don't let yourself go under that speed on the flat unless you're into a very strong wind or something.

but basically just go hard all the time is my main advice.

for reference, if your doing 17-18mph for 60 miles ( which in road terms isn't alot) then your pretty far off a good rider

*is sad*

I'm using strava (Garmin 500) already and have 2 KOM's and "generally" in my local area hover around the top third of the "league tables"

I'm strength training at the moment, I've picked a 40k, sorry 25 mile route with 3 x Cat 4's and am pumping out the rest as hard as I can - fastest is 1:19 at the moment.

Interested in your comments DirtyGirl, I interpreted Joe Friel for the Z2's, and with Job and kids 6hrs a week riding is all I can manage so I try for 2 x "fast & short" rides and 1 longer Sunday ride - which would be my Z2 effort. I'd better re-read it (although I have the MTB Training bible not the road one).

Here's 2 solo rides i done last year for reference

road ride 1

road ride 2

Blimey!

2 KOM ? - are you trolling really??

If you can average 18mph for 100km I guarantee you that you're physically capable of breaking 20mph over a shorter distance, say 35km. You just need to learn to suffer a bit more.

It never gets easier. You just get faster.

Seriously though the biggest barrier you're facing right now is psychological not physical.

I sort of use my ~12.5 mile commute as a good indicator of overall "average performance"...

The morning ride in: 12.5 mile East to West along a largely flat road, I seem to average out about 16 Mph.

Evening is the same route in reverse I seem to Average between about 17.5 Mph, looking at the weather online does suggest the wind is normally heading easterly as indicated by my averages, so totting them up and dividing by 2; for a flat 25miles ride half into the wind and half with it I should manage ~16.75 Mph Average in theory (not sure if reality matches that though)...

I still think many of the 20+ MPH average claims on STW come from people basing it mostly on chaingang or club rides and either don't do, or don't count many solo performances...

"Average" performance is a bit conditional surely?
If I always/mostly rode with a group I'm sure I'd have faster average speeds, but riding solo I'm probably expending more energy for lower average speeds, it's one rather arbitrary measurement of a more complex picture...

for reference, if your doing 17-18mph for 60 miles ( which in road terms isn't alot) then your pretty far off a good rider

*is sad*

No need to be.. plenty of people are faster than him, and slower than you!

I'm lactic threshold training at the moment before I lapse into Z2 distance training October to Feb, back on the LTR March...

I have no idea what this means and prob as a consequence never get any faster at the races I do.

Are the average speeds talked about above on flat or hilly rides? On my own I can ave ~18mph on a 45mile ride with ~2.75k feet climb and get in top 10% strava for some of the long hills. But seeing the speeds of some of the guys at the local races I'd need a MX bike to keep up. Very humbling.

I'm not trolling, this is a genuine ask.

geetee1972 - Member
If you can average 18mph for 100km I guarantee you that you're physically capable of breaking 20mph over a shorter distance, say 35km. You just need to learn to suffer a bit more.

It never gets easier. You just get faster.

Seriously though the biggest barrier you're facing right now is psychological not physical.

You may have a point here, so a question for others: Personally, I "back off" making my legs suffer in the early half of a ride, saving myself for the latter stages, i I tend to go hard in the last 10 miles.

Is it better then to work hard / suffer from the off so to speak? ie don't back off on the first hill of 3, but really go for it and learn to suffer on the last one a bit more? I guess this appraoch would stretch my reserves and if I have to stop and coast the last few miles then that becomes just a different way of challenging myself?

personally, if you cant crack 20mph average on a 20 mile route now there is no way in life you can up that to an avg of 24mph by next year

mauja - Member
If it's a relatively flat route then losing weight won't make a big difference and aero gains are pretty marginal on a regular road bike.

My suggestion would be to try and include some strength training over the winter as that's what has made a big difference for me in terms of the average speeds I can maintain.

You could try gym work or squats but I find regular hill intervals with low cadence pushing a hardish gear worked best for building my power.

+1 for gym work. I got out on my bike very little last winter, but i did semi-regular lifting. I kept the same pace despite not riding very much. Stiff legged deadlifts are my favourite and work your hamstrings hard.

All that said, i average about 15mph on my bike...

Papa_Lazarou - Member

Are the average speeds talked about above on flat or hilly rides?

Here's some recent examples:

[url= http://app.strava.com/rides/21997069 ]short ride[/url]

[url= http://app.strava.com/rides/20599513 ]Long ride[/url]

Only thing I can add to the above is have you had a proper bike fit?

I'm in a similar situation, 5 months into road riding, 1000 miles under the belt. Looking to up my averages on my local (flat but usually windy) loops. If I really push I can average 18.5 over 2 hours but it hurts me.

I am also usually in the top 10 or so of the strava runs in my local area. Somehow there are people who can *average* 28mph up signficant hills here....

I'm looking to get a retul fit to check my setup as even now I still don't feel the position is perfect, fiddling with seat angles, fore and aft position etc...

i I tend to go hard in the last 10 miles.

Warm up, go hard, warm down. Finishing a ride with legs fiull of lactic won't help recovery and recovery is just as important than the training.
Maybe less focus on zones and intervals and more old-school 'learn how to flog yourself to vomit point up some hills' plus some basics on rest and recovery / maximising the benefit of your efforts is the way forward )
Riders were going very fast well before training plans and interval zones came along. Knowing your reaction to efforts and how you feel on a day / how to ride yourself fit is worth a lot - training plans can be better for riders who are already quite fit ie have less room for improvement and need to tailor the training to specific aims.

+1 for gym work. I got out on my bike very little last winter, but i did semi-regular lifting. I kept the same pace despite not riding very much. Stiff legged deadlifts are my favourite and work your hamstrings hard.

All that said, i average about 15mph on my bike...

What are you on about?

Just ride your bike more.

Struggle on a mountain bike but piece of p155 on a road bike!

Just put a larger wheel circumfrence in your bike computer, you'll hit 20 no probs..

Average speed pretty meaningless as a measure against the masses, too many variables!
But to get faster, ride with faster people.. nothing like giving your old redline a nudge upwards, when chasing down an attack!

Interval sessions will help, i found increasing cadence also helped with sustained speed efforts - but BY FAR the best way to increase speed is to get out on a club ride, you will find that the quick guys will average 20+ without too much haste and although initially it will be painful you will get there in superquick time (no pun intended)

Chris Boardman – 45.57 on 29th May 1993 – Course: H25/13 Average Speed = 32.644mph

25mile time trial. that's nuts i can't really get my head round that, i know what it's like to sit in a group at 22mph and even go solo for 24mph for a short period of time but those kind of times are beyond comprehension.