[Closed] Cotic Soul Vs Ragley Piglet

I have no experience of either but know there are loads of articles if you do a search on the forum about either of these bikes. Purchasing power of the AUD is immense fir you at the moment. Good luck.

Had a cotic bfe which has the same geom as the soul, great great bike. Excellent quality, I would recommend cotic products any time. Dunno anything about ragleys..

Selling your chameleon? markhoracekuk@yahoo.com

Hora

only probem is i live in Australia

Have had a Ragley Piglet X9 18" for a few months now.
Love the bike. I already have a Blue pig. The slightly steeper head angle and shorter fork makes it feel a little bit more XC. I live in North Yorkshire and have ridden the bike in the Lakes, Dales, trail centres and local routes. At £260/270 for a frame its a fantastic price. It a no fuss, strong comfortable (curved seat stays) steel MTB.
[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7035/6834544189_1ba979775f.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7035/6834544189_1ba979775f.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/yorkshirebiking/6834544189/ ]IMG_0141[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/yorkshirebiking/ ]Yorkshirebiking[/url], on Flickr
I made a vid of our ride in the Lake District on the Piglet.Hope you like.
http://vimeo.com/35949459

Is the Piglet not just cheap cromo, the Soul is 853 main triangle, you are not really comparing like for like so a price comparison is not really the way to do it ?

I would say Soul as i swapped to one from a 120mm FS and haven't ever regretted it, but i should add i haven't ridden a Piglet so cant compare properly.

Haven't ridden a Piglet but it looks appealing despite the Ragley QC issues. However that would worry me if I were having a frame shipped across the world. Own a Soul and think it's fantastic - note that it's almost 1lb lighter than the Piglet but stronger thanks to the 853 (and 631 headtube) front half. All the details are well thought out (benefits of years of design tweaks) and the finish is excellent.

I was in a simalar situation to you a while back. Couldn't find a test ride either. I went for a Soul, mainly due to the QC issues and just didn't like the look of the piglet when I saw it in the metal.

nads I've seen both in the flesh. No offence to Brant but visually alone they are polar-opposites. Interms of finish, small touches etc etc.

In adition the carbon Ragley Wiser bars that were sent to me were insulting. How can any business not QC their products?

Personally I'd go for a Soul.

I have a Ragley and as much as I love it, given the chance again i would pay the extra and buy the Cotic better tube set, better finish just nicer. And given your in Oz and ragleys have been a bit poor on the QC I would not risk it.

Have a look at the head angle on both bikes as well. There's a quoted difference of around 1.5?- both measured sagged - viz, the Piglet is a fair bit slacker than the Soul regardless of everything else. I'd view that as a slightly more important factor than cosmetics etc.

I've only ridden a Piglet briefly, but it didn't feel entirely alien back to back with a Ragley Ti, which is even slacker - most hardtails feel twitchy in comparison. I've not ridden a Soul bar very, very briefly a long time ago, but I suspect the Ragley will feel quite different in terms of steering.

Obviously not the be all and end all of the thing, but thought I'd mention it.

Both were on my shortlist but after months of research I went with the Soul. Amazing bike, though I haven't test ridden a Piglet for comparison. I was put off Ragley after mixed reviews on QC and I'm sure I even read somewhere that Brant who designed the Piglet thought that the Soul was the best made HT frame ever made (or something like that)

It's very hard to find a bad word written about the Soul, which speaks volumes I reckon

Brant who designed the Piglet thought that the Soul was the best made HT frame ever made (or something like that)

Souls are very lovely.

Wow thanks for all the replies, and the vid nice touch, there is no Ice on the trails around here it never gets cold enough
Looks like fun though

I have looked at both head angles and I would run the fork at 130mm on the soul as that will put the HA about where I'm used too

I really want the Soul just had to find a way to justify it to myself and after reading all these posts I think it's definently the one to go for just have to start saving the Pennines now

Also I have had plenty of info back from Cotic via email and no response from Ragley not so good if I had a problem with the bike

Thanks everyone for your input, much appreciated

Where are you nads? I have a large soul in Perth if you are local and want to check fit etc?

Hi Brant,

You would be happy to know there are a plenty of happy blue pig owners around my local trails

Cheers

Thanks but I'm in Qld Brisbane about 5 hr flight away but thanks for the offer though

Hey nads,

I'm in exactly the same position as you. I live in Melbourne and looking to build up a HT frame with a friend of mine. Buying power of AUD is good, but not being able to test bikes or even see them in person sucks. I've had a look all over the net. Lots of info on lots of sites asking for input on the 'what frame?' question. The Ragley's get a lot of good reviews and for the price are tempting, but the QC issues are a bit of a risk considering the distance and time taken to send things back that aren't right. I've contacted both Cotic and DialledBikes about their range and Dialled offered discounts on multiple purchases.
In terms of the Cotic bikes, the Soul's geo is Head/Seat angle: 70/73 and the Piglet: 68.5/73.5, so the feel would probably be quite different. If you were to look into the DialledBikes then in terms of raw geo, their Prince Albert is: 70/74, so as far as I can tell, would probably be similar in handling to the Soul.
Anyway, that's my 2cents (worth more now as it's Aussie Cents! :p ) Feel free to get in touch if they offer discounts for multiple frames...might PM you too

Cheers all.

As an extra bit of info...does anyone know much about the Kinesis Maxlight XC3? It's similarly priced to the Ragley bikes (the same $ as the Piglet actually) and is Head/Seat: 70.5/73.5, so from my understanding should be somewhat similar, if a little more twitchy/XC....

Cheers all.

Didn't Kate Potter (Aus XC MTBer)ride for Cotic at some stage? Sorry, not really relevant to your thread but just floated around somewhere in my head as I was reading through the posts 8)

The piglet geo is based on a 120mm fork where as the soul geo is based on 100mm fork with 25mm sag according to the websites. But if you work on 20mm = around 1 degree of HA there not that much different

vThe piglet geo is based on a 120mm fork where as the soul geo is based on 100mm fork with 25mm sag according to the websites. But if you work on 20mm = around 1 degree of HA there not that much different

The Piglet geometry is listed as a 120mm fork sagged.

There is a lot of difference.

Hi Brant,

You would be happy to know there are a plenty of happy blue pig owners around my local trails

Cheers

Here too. Lovely bikes.

Ok my bad, there is a fair bit of difference when I actually work it out,

If you were to look into the DialledBikes then in terms of raw geo, their Prince Albert is: 70/74, so as far as I can tell, would probably be similar in handling to the Soul.
Anyway, that's my 2cents (worth more now as it's Aussie Cents! :p ) Feel free to get in touch if they offer discounts for multiple frames

the 853 special edition looks a good deal at £295 if you can afford to pre-order and wait.

The Soul angles at 120mm (sagged fork) is given [url= http://www.cotic.co.uk/geek/ ]here[/url] as being 69.4/72.4...

Cotic have a sale on their BFe frames - down to £300. Best of both worlds ?

I am looking into longer travel HTs, consensus so far seems to be to decide on the type of riding and thus desired travel/bike type and then make your frame choice from there. In terms of travel it seems to me to be a progression from Soul (120 +/-), Piglet (130 +/-), Pig (150 +/-). As noted above lots of happy Soul and Pig/Piglet owners out there.

nads - Member
Also I have had plenty of info back from Cotic via email and no response from Ragley not so good if I had a problem with the bike

Now you mention it, this was another reason for not getting a Piglet. I emailed them in August/September trying to find a demo bike, never had a response to this day.

MrSmith, where did you get the 853 special edition PA info from?

Thats exactly what i was after some time ago.

home page of the dialled site

muchas gracias

Get a Soul, fantastic bike.

metalheart - Member

The Soul angles at 120mm (sagged fork) is given here as being 69.4/72.4...

Thanks for this link, my current the SC Chamelion is rated at 68 HA with a 515mm axle to crown about a 140mm fork since I’m running a 120mm that will put my HA around 69 if I change the fork to 130mm on the soul it will be around 69 as well but the well priced piglet with its slack HA angle is always going to be appealing,

Nads - if you're down in ADL at any point, you're welcome to try my Soul out.

New 456Evo.
http://www.shedfire.com/tag/456evo/

I have a Soul and a BFe - both excellent frames. Not too slack but in no way twitchy old-skool. I run 70mm stems and 120-140 on each, which is ideal for the trails I run.

I have to say though, I do prefer the BFe.... The Soul is good for longer rides where the comfort and lighter weight is relevant but for <2 hrs rides the BFe gets grabbed most of the time.

Reggie, that's great info. Why do you find the Soul more comfortable ? I understood the geometry to be the same just the BFe is beefier (so harsher ?). What sort of trails do you run ?

I started looking at Pig/Piglet but have now added BFe (£300 vs £480 for Soul)

Reggie, that's great info. Why do you find the Soul more comfortable ? I understood the geometry to be the same just the BFe is beefier (so harsher ?). What sort of trails do you run ?

Also interested ??

brant - Member

New 456Evo.
http://www.shedfire.com/tag/456evo/

That looks good too angles are about what im chasing, i like it in the blue

Thanks for this link, my current the SC Chamelion is rated at 68 HA with a 515mm axle to crown about a 140mm fork since I’m running a 120mm that will put my HA around 69 if I change the fork to 130mm on the soul it will be around 69 as well but the well priced piglet with its slack HA angle is always going to be appealing

The Chameleon is 68 HA with 145mm forks extended, therefore ~70 HA with 140mm forks sagged.
The Piglet is 68.5 HA with 120mm forks sagged, therefore ~67.5 HA with 140mm forks sagged.
The 456EVO is 68.1 HA with 140mm forks sagged.
The Soul is 68.6 HA with 140mm forks sagged.

The 456EVO is 68.1 HA with 140mm forks sagged.

No. It's 67.8deg with 140's. It's 68.1deg with 130's.

456EVO does look nice - especially in the raw finish 😀

Will the "new" 456 ti be the same angles as the 456EVO?

Yes.

150mm geometry here - http://www.shedfire.com/2012/02/08/456-evo-geometry-150mm-fork/

Axle-crown height variance between different makes of similar sized forks caused the above confusion! Fox Float 32 140s are 510 axle-crown according to google but Revelation 130s are the same.

So if bikes are CEN tested for a given fork length, does that assume the longest A-C available for that travel?