[Closed] cotic put my mind at rest today 🙂

I'm quite looking forward to being a wisened eccentric on his old fashioned small wheeled mountain bike

I find it quite hilarious that people not only listen to what an LBS say and also there are people who think 26" will disappear. Wake up folks, there is a world out there beyond what the English speaking countries decide is cool.

I just want one of the beanie hats 😀

yes but the 26er , 650b and 29er debate is front page news still 🙂

My interpretation of the email was that their future is with larger wheeled bikes, but they will continue to support and produce 26ers, which is fair enough. I can envisage and feel comfortable with a world with more than one wheel size. Afterall cars come with about six or seven different wheel sizes with their own pro's and cons.

I've been desperate for Cy to announce a 29er (or 650b) Rocket but I can wait no longer and have gone with another bike. Maybe in a few years when i'm looking to re-frame i'll get my wish.

I don't mind 29ers and 650b's but I like my 26ers (especially my BFe 🙂 ) and I dont want someone else to decide that I cant have 26ers anymore. (not that I can see that happening anytime soon)

Well said 😉

waved a pair of 650b hoops at my new soul today and they fitted real nice....

Cy also said that there was no point in a Small Solaris and look what happened....

He didn't change his mind did he 👿 Where did I put that pitchfork.

But more upsetting for me is the news that there will be no more black Rockets once this batch is sold. Can't afford one at the moment but always thought I would like one at some point. Oh well....

Well said Richie!

The marketing storm created by the whole 29er / 650b affair is unreal - giving some LBSs and most magazines the chance to go into a money spinning frenzy

Yes, they probably ride faster, but i don't do XC races, but do enjoy thrashing people on their super lightweight 29er carbon w*nk machines on my all mountain 26er

I ride for fun, not to win races - i enjoy thrashing my bike and it feeling alive - which in turn makes me feel alive

However - Richie - if you don't replace the Soul in the next 6 months - i'll lick your bike clean after a ride around Swinley! 🙂

Only one of my mates rides a 29er, and he hasn't been out for over a year now, all the rest of us ride 26 and I never see any on the trails we ride , chilterns and Woburn,

I won't be changing,

I tried the big wheel thing, oh, let me think, when I was about 14. That was a 28" wheeler, with uber wide cow horn (sorry 'riser') handlebars and 10 gears (sorry 2 x 5) - we called them trackers. I'm quite happy now (30 years later) on 26" wheels thanks.

It's a bike FFS, not a pair of shoes, I don't need it in half sizes.. 😆

Cheers Clucas it's my last bike , he says 🙂

Yesterday in Evans I noticed 2 things... One, if you sneak a single 650b bike into a row of 26 inch wheel bikes, it makes all the others look a bit odd. But also, two, they really didn't have very many 29ers despite all the hype, and those they did were mostly very xc. Couple of 650s, but maybe 19/20 of all the mtbs were 26ers.

Now maybe that's just because they don't carry Specialized or something, but it's not what Teh Internetz says is happening.

I wish cotic would put my mind at rest and tell me they'll have my orange rocket in soon! 😀

I have to say being fairly new to using this forum I'd seen a few 29ers and 650b's but thought of them as fad novelty bikes for people who have bike stables that need filling up.

Having read a few threads on here over the last couple of weeks I'm now paranoid the 5k's worth of bikes in my garage are all going to be obsolete and worthless in 12 months. I think a large proportion of the rumour mill is fairly localised to a number of people using this forum and a few local bike shops.

Personally I'm just fed up of the whole thing. Why can't we just have some bikes that have 26” wheels some with 27.5” and some with 29” all over the full range of styles?

I don't want to be forced onto a different wheel size because some bloke in California thinks that is what all 140mm fs bikes should be. I'm looking at you Specialized!

They have 26er bikes so dialled now so why change

I am not as lucky as some, especially some of you northern types who are blessed with such big scenery, cram packed with large rocky outcrops and steep rooty hills.

Most of the local woods I ride are really quite boring by comparison and if I was to iron out the bumps any more I may aswell hit the Tarmac.

That is a good point , how smooth does the trail need to be

richieokeefe1 the fact that 26" bikes are so dialed now is exactly why they are pushing different wheel sizes so hard. its an easy way for them to shift new product, its very hard to sell someone something they already have.

Yesterday in Evans I noticed 2 things... One, if you sneak a single 650b bike into a row of 26 inch wheel bikes, it makes all the others look a bit odd. But also, two, they really didn't have very many 29ers despite all the hype, and those they did were mostly very xc. Couple of 650s, but maybe 19/20 of all the mtbs were 26ers.

Now maybe that's just because they don't carry Specialized or something, but it's not what Teh Internetz says is happening.

wheel thing is boring

Cy will make them while he can make money /shift them, as soon as he cant he ant (like his 21" soul)

Slightly upset that Cy's dropped me off the newsletter email list. Must toddle off and sign up again

Remember being told a soothsayer at a lbs (Keswick) that all bikes would made in aluminium in the future and steel was finished. Soon all bikes will be 29s, well till the year after the next big thing.

why would any small manufacturer stop making a successful product. While mainstream goes off on one the likes of Mavic etc will still keep churning out rims and maxxis tyres for those of us who don't change our bikes as often as our pants. If Spec/Giant wont make a 26" ht them people who do will make money (although the demographic is different there 🙂 )

Just as there is plenty of scope for selling nice well made 26" FS bikes.

I live in a racer town where most of the riding is xc racing and 29 has taken off but the rest of us who just ride are happy enough where we are. Also looking at the results training still seems to make more difference to people rather than the bike.

fud.

26" isn't going to be obsolete but I'd be buying the high range wheels and forks now to put away for the future for the time when companies stop making stuff

Really? You really think 26 wheeled stuff will become obsolete and unsupported during our lifetime? I think there is more chance of wheels becoming obsolete altogether in favor of hover bikes before that happens in our lifetime. There will alway be manufacturers out there making 26" stuff even when the main manufacturers completely stop producing it. I don't think there is any need to start hoarding stuff just yet.

souldrummer - Member
But more upsetting for me is the news that there will be no more black Rockets once this batch is sold.

did they say what colours they are going to do? Just Orange from now on?

I would have thought it would have been orange and either blue or green.

Nice to have the feedback on here backing up my suspicions regarding 26". I just thought having had to have this "your Soul isn't going to be obsolete in 3 years" chat with a couple of customers it struck me that they could well be the tip of the iceberg so wanted to put peoples' mind at rest. We still sell more 26" hardtails than anything else, so clearly we aren't stopping doing them anytime soon.

Rockets-wise, the other colour will be green. Too many people asking for it not to do it. Sorry to anyone who wants a black one. We still have mediums and larges in stock, but sales have slowed significantly since we ran out of orange ones, and we have back orders on orange Rockets with black ones still in stock whilst people are asking for green ones. It's not hard to see why we've switched.

Considering all I read about 29ers in the press I was surprised at one of the crc marathons last year of all the bikes there I only saw around half a dozen 29ers.

I'm genuinely baffled by the huge amount of binary thinking shown on stw about wheel size.

Anyone can see that 26ers are still the lions share of the market. It only feels like 29ers are taking over the world because they're new and its what everyone is talking about.

To me its just another choice. Hardtail or FS? short travel or long travel? Carbon, steel, alu or Ti? Fat tyres or thin tyres? Risers or flats? 1x10, 2x10, 3x10? Big or small wheels? It's just down to what you like and what you want.

It only feels like 29ers are taking over the world because they're new

i think a few riders would dispute that. my comment about stock piling 26" stuff was meant to be tongue in cheek, i should have realised it would be taken as gospel! 26" will be around for a while yet, if that suited my size I'd be on one, I've ridden 26" for a lot longer than 29" (15/5years) but when I tried the larger wheel it felt instantly right

I'm with scienceofficer on this one. It's just another choice when I'm going for a ride.

Though must admit that the marketing may be having an effect on me as I reckon 29ers now look right and 26ers look a bit small wheeled 😕

Oh good not bothered by green, may have had to do something drastic if blue was being made available.

Taipei bike show, considered by some to lead the market place by about 2 years, no 26 ers on show.
poss the limiting factor will be tyres rather than frames per se.
Sadly I think we will be pressed into 650b (the new 26er) and 29 ers by lack of choice rather than more choice.

[b]nicko74[/b], make sure you do all the normal stuff so that the newsletter doesn't get treated as spam (adding Cy's email address to your address book etc).

Me too mrblobby. The effect is worsened on larger size bikes, especially with the larger sized riders on them!

I know that 29ers aren't 'new', and that folk on here and other fourms have been blathering about them for years, but they have only really started penetrating mainstream this last couple of years.

passtherizla - Member
Oh good not bothered by green, may have had to do something drastic if blue was being made available.

Blue is the best colour to have a Cotic in 😉 I don't think I would have been able to cope if there was a blue Rocket to match my BFe. I'm struggling to get by in life without an Orange Rocket in my shed as it is.

How come Cotic dropped the 26er Simple frame?

Think the green should be a Bfe only colour like the old blue, and orange being the soul colour. But Cotic is a business.

Cy - please can we have an XL large soul frame for people who don't want to go to a 29er Solaris??

I've got a deposit ready & waiting and i don't car what colour it is! 🙂

I was extremely happy Cy re-iterated his support for 26"...as I can't see myself ever changing.

Cy - Is your new mismatched 120/140 rig going to continue in the 26" guise (and can it also be green?)? 🙂

To me its just another choice. Hardtail or FS? short travel or long travel? Carbon, steel, alu or Ti? Fat tyres or thin tyres? Risers or flats? 1x10, 2x10, 3x10? Big or small wheels? It's just down to what you like and what you want.

At the risk of boring myself saying stuff I've said many times before 🙂 I think this is a bad thing. There's only so many bike variables it is physically possible to try before buying, so the likelihood of truly knowing what we like and hence what we want before parting with any cash decreases as the choice expands. This makes us more reliant on reviews, peer experiences and - crucially - what the market tells us. With this in mind I fear for the future of 26ers.

(I own a 26" full susser and a 29" rigid single speed by the way)

You'd have us all riding about on one bike for all would you?

It's cobblers to say 'oh no, there's too much choice!' Every single rider I've ever known has gone through several years of experimentation with different bikes and equipment until they settle into something they like and become more experienced.

By this context, the scenario of 'choice is bad' as you present it is already upon us, and was before 29ers were even on the page.

I don't think anyone is saying that 'choice' is a bad thing

But i do sense that people are getting tired of the '29ers are king - 26" wheels are now dead and will fazed out'

Scare mongering at best - i love my 26" - have loved the size for 20 years and intend to love it for another 20 years!

I_Ache - Member
passtherizla - Member
Oh good not bothered by green, may have had to do something drastic if blue was being made available.
Blue is the best colour to have a Cotic in I don't think I would have been able to cope if there was a blue Rocket to match my BFe. I'm struggling to get by in life without an Orange Rocket in my shed as it is.

One of my Pals had a whizz on mine the other day, he is now trying to get the money for one together quite desperately. We probably shouldn't go for a ride any time soon mate, I'm sure you'd hate it. 😉

One of my Pals had a whizz on mine the other day,

Every single rider I've ever known has gone through several years of experimentation with different bikes and equipment until they settle into something they like and become more experienced.

Until the next big thing comes out and the experimentation continues. Are they not happy with what they've got? Who's feeding this experimentation? The bike companies. I'm not saying bike companies shouldn't launch new products and try and convince us we need them. That would be plain daft and naive. What I am saying is that I see people defending choice based on trying different things until you find what works for you. That's simply not practical for the [i]vast[/i] majority of the bike buying market, so to be told such-and-such is the next big thing when last year something else was the next big thing is a pain. That's capitalism I guess.

mind you santa cruz seem still happy with 26ers likes the blur range and nomad

Northwind, but then I was in Leisure Lakes about a week ago, and out of 50 or so bikes on display there was no more than a handful of 26" bikes. Couple of Orange full sussers, couple of Yeti. All the mainstream brands they had (Trek Spesh, Cannondale) were all 29ers (Take this next statement with as much of a pinch of salt as you want) The sales guys were saying they were selling pretty well.

Personally I'm all for choice, I think different wheel sizes is a great thing

Must say I'm getting tired of this debate. It's not hard to see that it all comes down to choice and how you ride your bike.

I'll probably buy a 29er this year but that's because I've been doing some xc racing and am pretty convinced that for speed on our southern xc courses something light which rolls well is what you want.

But what I bought most recently is a fs 26 inch bike despite the hype, because most days I'm just trying to get out and enjoy myself. Who cares if I'm a second quicker!

Another opinion, for which I've absolutely no evidence, is that the size of the rider and frame must have an effect on the ride. If you're 6ft riding a large frame, 29ers must be more in proportion and ride the way a 26er rides for a short arse like me.

I think all three sizes are fine , something for everyone ! but dont phase any out keep all three !

We probably shouldn't go for a ride any time soon mate, I'm sure you'd hate it.

Your probably right, I don't want a go on it because that would make my heart and wallet hurt in equal amounts.

I'm soo surprised that 26" riders have not tried 29ers ....cos if they did they would realise they are soooo much faster everywhere ...not just Xc but trail and steep technical slopes ......they're just in denial ...

I'm soo surprised that 26" riders have not tried 29ers ....cos if they did they would realise they are soooo much faster everywhere ...not just Xc but trail and steep technical slopes ......they're just in denial ...

A little too obvious there......

As above some of us don't change bikes as often as underpants.

I have a collection of very nice 26" wheels so when I get a new frame they will just slot in. I much prefer the likes of Santa Cruz's philosophy of not releasing new versions just because it's a new year. Get the frame right and it will last a few years, tweak anything that needs doing and then re design in a couple more.

The 26" world is not about to collapse as the last company making stuff will make a killing.

In the end of the day a wise man once compared religion to having a penis. Do what you like with it, but if you start ramming it down peoples throats you might be in trouble.

Nobody in the history of the world ever bought something new and shiney and declared it crap.

I've owned a Soul and ridden a Solaris. As quick as the Solaris was I preferred riding the Soul and felt more comfortable on it...just my opinion. I now own a 5 year old 5 and 3 year old Anthem. Both 26 and both brilliant fun. I get pleasure from riding my bike as hard as I can and as often as I can (snow permitting). It doesn't bother me what wheel size I see on the trails as long as I see a smile on the riders face.

"Nobody in the history of the world ever bought something new and shiney and declared it crap. "

Actually I did... it was a DW link 5 spot... (sorry 5 spot owners, I didn't like mine at all).

Paul

Re trying 29ers- I've tried some, none were as good as my favourite 26ers. But then I've tried a lot of 26ers and none of those were as good as my favourite 26ers either. It's almost as though there's more to it than wheel size!

"Nobody in the history of the world ever bought something new and shiney and declared it crap. "

I have. To be fair not often, I'm a careful shopper but not everyone is delusional! I've declared more stuff disappointing than crap though.

What I am saying is that I see people defending choice based on trying different things until you find what works for you. That's simply not practical for the vast majority of the bike buying market, so to be told such-and-such is the next big thing when last year something else was the next big thing is a pain. That's capitalism I guess.

I like to think that I'm a fairly logical chap. Not overly swayed by marketing (although, obviously, not immune to it either). I can test bikes and make up my own mind. But I still have some sympathy with the argument above.

I've had an extended test on one 29er, which I didn't like. I've got test rides booked on two others next month. But I'm already thinking that (even if I do like them) I probably shouldn't buy any 29er until I've at least tested some 650B bikes. Even though I can't really understand how such a small change in size over a 26" bike can actually make any significant difference I guess I ought to try. No point jumping on one bandwagon just as another pulls into town.

The irony is that all this marketing push is actually making me take longer over buying a new bike. If we only had the one wheel size I would have bought something months ago I'm sure.

richieokeefe1
I am pretty sure Santa Cruz are looking at 650b in a variety of formats, they will be out there pretty soon, if only to offer an alternative to the Intense range of bikes

It's almost as though there's more to it than wheel size!

Nobody in the history of the world ever bought something new and shiney and declared it crap.

do you want a list?

although this is a little less reactionary:

...I've declared more stuff disappointing than crap...

new bike syndrome 🙂

Surely we should all scrap the obsolete 26ers and soon to be obsolete 29ers
And spend big wedge on that perfect compromise of 27.5"
While we're on, let's bin all our 1,1/8 headsets and those new silly tapered forks.
I suggest a new metric 50mm steerer standard and maybe a fatter front 25.4 spindle.

What about hub braking?

Maybe 29 ers give people more confidence for a variety of reasons that putting a bigger wheel in a frame gives
Eg increased wheel base = more stability , longer top tube = possbetter bike fit with short stem, better angle of attack as head angle is relatively slacker than on a comparable 26 er.
Lower bottom bracket relatively = better stability ALL may give more confidence and therefore speed
So maybe 26 ers will be redesigned lower slacker and longer to give same confidence levels

But ... it is just marketing

In windsurfing we had fully battened sales, RAF, cut out leeches, soft leeches, double concave, triple concave, swallow tail, pin tail etc etc

In snowboarding - banana boards, wavey edges, soft boards, stiff baords, flow bindings, stap in binding, click in bindings, and something in between everything ...

650b will not be come the std - it's way too obtuse. It is just the industry trying to drive new products. If you were to ride blindfolded - could anyone tell the difference between a 650b and a 26ers? ( admitidly, there may be some issues with thsi suggestion). 20 yeats ago it was 150 mm stema and narrow bars to get through the trees ( and quite bif frame sizes). The it went to tiny fram sizes with long stems and seat posts. The sloping top tube. Now everything is sloping toptube. Raised rear stays. Triple crown forks on everything. Biopace rings.

The answer will be - depends on what you use the bike for and what you peer group tells you.
29ers make sense for those who like a bimble in the country doing the XC thing ( which, in all honesty, is what 90% of UK riding is)
26ers will become more playbike / AM/ Fun/ Core - if you want to ride down the Rot Horn , will you do it on a 29er or a 26er? Somehow, i think it will be the later.

650b is the minidisc of the cycling world. Well marketed, invested in by some big companies, but with no real need ....