You will now probably direct me to the established thread with several hundred entries, but in case there isn't one, On-one have a few pictures of the carbon 456 in the flesh up on their site. Looks nice.
[url= http://www.on-one-shop.co.uk/?p=21416#more-21416 ]To the pics[/url]
Looks interesting but a bit difficult to tell what it actually looks like in those shots.
Are they doing a 29er? Would be very interested in one of those
i agree, the shots arent great, but it sounds like it might be rather nice.
it says on there that it was built up as a singlespeed but the shots don't show how that was done (at least I can't see on my laptop screen's resolution)
What dropouts will this have then?
Sliding dropouts in this pic at least
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Personally I don't like the idea. The kind of riding I do on my 456 doesn't lend itself to carbon. I'd be too scared of damaging it from a rock strike on the down tube(every mtb I own has dints around the BB) or just crashing it. For me Carbon is reserved for the road and race bikes where performance is more important than longevity.
OMG - here we go again. It is not too difficult to make a carbon frame stronger than an alloy one. Welcome to the 21st century
stronger of course----but the impact strength of steel will be never achieved...so... what makes just a dent in your steel downtube will (very likely...) destroy your carbon downtube..
I agree, a splintered downtube would make me weep
Has to be said I do fancy one.
Got to be some of the worst quality pics on a company web site ever though
Saw that out riding last sunday around Blackamoor (near Sheffield). Looke quite tasty and was doing alright downhill
After riding and craching on pace carbon forks I'd be more than happy to have a Carbon 456, except I doubt they are going to making any EEB ones.
I share the impact concerns but it does look pretty damn nice.
Any idea of price?
[i]what makes just a dent in your steel downtube will (very likely...) destroy your carbon downtube.. [/i]
Completely arse about face I'm afraid, you could batter most CF frames with a hammer for while, maybe one or two blows would squish your steel frame. They're pretty thin walled, you know?
Wheres that video of the guy hitting a carbon frame with a hammer again?
It also depends on how you build the frame of course, you can add protective coatings or top layers, like Trek's carbon armour, or have a non-structural top weave for ablative protection... Plus probably loads of others that I've never heard of.
Pretty excited about these myself, if it works and comes in on budget, then might need to find space for one in the garage.
the video is from niner bikes, called fork hammering ..
you find it on youtube and also as an older post on the "bustedcarbon.com" site..
offtopic here anyway..
everybody has to make his own! experiences...
[url=
hammering video[/url]
If you have a look at the comments on the [url= http://www.on-one-shop.co.uk/?p=3777 ][b]carbon frame[/b][/url] section of On One's site, there's quite a bit of spiel to suggest that the 456 is going to be on the 'robustly constructed' side of things.
Stevo (from On One) is quoted on there as suggesting that the 456 will be carbon / kevlar, layed up with ballsitic layers like you get on kayaks and stab vests and suitably over engineered but without compromising weight.
LOL @ that niner video "showing off" the carbon fibre forks. He means to say that "there is no [b]visible[/b] damage" after that hammer test. The lamina of carbon fibre will be cracked, just as much as the steel fork, there's just less surface indentation.
/edit
Remember that video is a [b]sales pitch[/b], not a scientific test. There was no post-damage strength testing shown. I wonder why?
Just for JonT
[url= http://www.bikerumor.com/2009/11/18/niner-carbon-fork-still-rideable-after-being-smashed-with-hammer/ ]Niner fork still rideable after hammer blows[/url]
I am a big fan of On-One but carbon chainstays and chain slap
er Scary 😯
If they bring it in on that £499 budget I might just have to have one.
And chain slap is what old tubes and tyres are for - amongst other things.
Small stones wont smash carbon.
How many frames have people dinged on here? Of course there will be a few more than many.
Ive dinged only one (on the BB area)- Orange five so I dont think I will worry too much.
I did some fairly horrific things to carbon hockey sticks for my masters. I broke more bits of aluminium and steel than hockey sticks!
Even in realy old sticks that had been battered the hell out of the main way of making them fail was just plain bending them too far too many times.
Reading the comments it looks like they are going to make three frames: a carbon 456 with a tapered headtube, a carbon 'whippet' with 100mm XC (scandal) geometry and a carbon 29er.
bending them too far too many times.
So as long as they make the frame torsionally stiff it should be ok on that front? i.e. not make them like that noodly original-ti456 frame?
duno, if you could bend a bike frame the same distance we were bending sticks in the lab you'd have more to worry about than the relative merrits of steel Vs carbon.
I'd happily ride a carbon bike (If I could justify the price tags). The 456 may be a bargain under £500, but by the time i'd bought a new headset your heading towards commencal meta5.5 and cannondal prophet frame money.
New headset- what type does it need?
Surely producing a carbon frame is far worse for the environment than producing a steel frame? I would be really interested in any research that anyone knows about the relative carbon/pollution costs of the various materials bikes could be made from.
why would it be worse than steel?
Dig humungous hole in the ground
Dig out ore
transport from australia/china/africa to port talbot
blast furnace
ship to birmingham
add expensive hard to produce metals
melt it agiain and form into tubes
heat treat it
ship it to tiwan
weld it
heat treat it again
ship it back.
Yes it can be recycled, but thats only a fraction of the energy cost!
Id wager that prety much the entire CF production process takes place on Tiawan.
I really have no idea if it is worse, I just think, "oh, plastic must be worse." But I genuinely don't know. That's why I'd be really interested in finding out.
How is CF produced?
CF comes from oil (via polymer) as most plastics do
Carbon fiber
Carbon fibers are filaments of carbon that can be used to make very strong yarns and textiles. Carbon fiber items are often produced by spinning and weaving the desired item from fibers of a suitable polymer, and then pyrolyzing the material at a high temperature (from 1500 °C to 3000 °C).
The first carbon fibres were made from rayon, but polyacrylonitrile has become the most common starting material.
for the non chemists..................
imagine an acrylic jumper, burn it, then cover the remains in glue.
(not strictly true, you make the thread, burn it, weave it into the jumper then cover in glue)
Well, hopefully, you soak it in the glue rather than just cover but... 🙂
Do you take the jumper off first? I don't have an acrylic jumper can I use merino? Would that be lighter?
Depends, I once saw a video of a certain Polish yacht builder who's name implies they're German.
The main layup was litteraly dispensed form a big hose pipe!
Interesting project, wonder who else's Carbon bikes are coming off that line? Merida? Good price point though and should be Brit proof given the lineage.
Interesting - I'd have reckoned that without wetting the fibres, it would be a lot weaker/less stiff for the weight... Maybe it's just not practical on that scale?
I wonder how many people on this thread actually want one- i.e. I bet most of you do. I know I do. Its an exciting proposition.
Hora, what's this about the Ti456's noodliness- I've noticed you mention it a few times, but I've never felt the frame flexed anywhere it shouldn't?
carbon frames can be stronger than any metal, fact.. I have watched over 30 videos of carbon being hit and then being ridden after, do the same to any metal and it can fold at the dent / impact point, carbon can be repaired, a dented metal frame on the whole is trash after... Scott bikes designer did a Donwhill run and came off the bike, it bounced around 60ft down a hill, they retrieved it, big hole near the BB, he rode for the rest of the day with the hole and then patched it up that night.... now that is confidence in his design, apparently he said, its a hole, but due to the layering it is still as strong! I am confident with carbon (no I no longer have a carbon bike) but technology has moved on and they are now very strong, easy to repair and pretty crash resistant, and well made carbon does not explode and splinter like people think it does (note the well made point).
Interesting - I'd have reckoned that without wetting the fibres, it would be a lot weaker/less stiff for the weight... Maybe it's just not practical on that scale?
The fibers are wet and come out like a slurry/aerosol from a big (think firemans hose sized) pipe . Its a bit like using CSM but they lay up 60' boats in minutes/hours rather than days.
It results in a higher than ideal %age of resin so they don't have a very good strength to weight ratio.