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Right I'm not in this to rip anyone off, just as much as I dislike being ripped-off by others so I am asking for advice on what is the 'correct' thing to do in this situation:
I sold a rear wheel to someone (maybe off here) that was in my opinion in very good condition. It came on a bike I bought 2nd hand, I had used it lightly for about 18 months before splitting the bike.
I sold the wheel for a very reasonable cost to the buyer over 2 months ago. He has recently contacted me saying the bearing are shot and the hub seized (Surly) and he would like a full refund. He has only got around to building the bike apparently. A bike shop has told him the 'cones' have been overtightened at some point causing the sealed bearings to fail and ruining the hub (seized axle).
I do not want to pull a fast one on this bloke, but do not really think that I am to blame seeing as I have no idea (other than his word) what the wheel has been subjected to in the 2 months since I sent it to him.
Is he right to ask for a full refund seeing as I sold the wheel in VGC?
Offer him to rectify the wheel issues if he drops it at yours.
He should have checked it was Ok when he received it. Anything could have happened to it in 2 months!
A bike shop has told him the 'cones' have been overtightened at some point causing the sealed bearings to fail and ruining the hub (seized axle).
sounds like bullshine - but could just have got garbled as the message passed thru many folk.
Just get the wheel back and refund minus the postage
2 months is pushing it a bit
He's had ample time to check the goods & failed to do so
2 months is a long time IMO, I'd be dubious about giving a refund. You've got no idea what may have happened to them in the 2 months he's had them. He might not be happy when you tell him but I don't think you should have to give a refund if he couldn't be bothered to check the wheel when it arrived!
i thinkts too long, would hnot have checked an item bought from a shop straight away.
"bearing are shot and the hub seized "
If you were looking at a second hand wheel the 1st thing to check is the bearings. So why hasn't he taken it out of the box when it arrive and span the wheel?
I think you have to apply the "how would i like to be treated" rule, but only after he has!
Agreed about length of time - for secomnd hand stuff check straight away -I'm always happy to refund to a buyer on the classifides and dont need a reason for this, if its within 2-3 weeks, but two months is beyond reasonable IMO.
Did you check the bearings/hub before selling? If so then tell him to do one, if you didn't then maybe you shouldn't have described it as VGC.
A bike shop has told him the 'cones' have been overtightened at some point causing the sealed bearings to fail and ruining the hub (seized axle).
this just isn't correct.
i'd (politely) tell him to do one. 2 months is too long.
2 months is way too long. i'd tell him to get lost!
A lot can happen in two months and surely an element of caveat emptor applies.
If the bearings are shot, the buyer would have noticed something in the first couple of rides and contacted you earlier. I guess the bearings are used and the buyer sees an opportunity for a free rebuild.
80% refund, buyer has used the wheel, and take it back, or as said above offer to to look at and repair.
Depends how much you value your reputation as a seller and/or need this buyer!
Sorry but I'd agree 2 months = too long
I've been sold stuff on the forums which I've had to be trued, serviced and repaired. It's one of the things to be weary of, check as soon as they arrive if their not perfect tough sh.. their second hand after all - I just suck it up and put it down to experience - unless there is a major fault. Then you should notice as soon as the item arrives and do something about it.
As others have said 2 months = way too long = no refund.
If they are sealed cartridge bearings would they have cones? Sounds like BS to me...
Agreed about length of time - for secomnd hand stuff check straight away -I'm always happy to refund to a buyer on the classifides and dont need a reason for this, if its within 2-3 weeks, but two months is beyond reasonable IMO.
Yeah, agreed.
However, it sounds like it's a cartridge bearing hub? Offer to send him some new bearings as a goodwill gesture? Won't cost very much....
But this
[i]A bike shop has told him the 'cones' have been overtightened at some point causing the sealed bearings to fail and ruining the hub (seized axle).
[/i]
Sounds like BS to me. It's either got cones, or it's sealed [cartride] bearings. Which is it?
As a matter of interest, hub & rim is ut? And how much did you sell it for?
It is a Surly (sealed bearing) fixed/free hub, laced on to a DRC ST19 700c rim using Sapiam spokes. Sold for £50 (inc. £11 next day courier so £39 for wheel)
Tell him to **** off, bollox to sending him new bearings as a goodwill gesture aswell.
Even if the item wasnt as you described and the bearings were knackered, tough shit for not bothering to check it sooner.
That hub doesn't have cones. Only hubs with loose bearings have cones. Sounds like the shop is spinning him some BS in an attempt to get him to buy some new stuff. Even if the bearings were shot and you sold it that way (not to your knowledge) a bearing swap wont be expensive. Tell him to do one.
Some cartridge bearing hubs can be adjusted so they can be overtightened. Not cones as such but similar.
So 4 quid for some new bearings and around 10 mins to fit.
I'd politely refuse.
if he paid via paypal he only has 45 days to open a dispute, if 45 days have past, tell him to do one
The bike shop has told him that the hub is fubar'd due to "the shell casing is now stuck on the inside of the hub.They cannot be removed which has rendered the hub useless."
I assume that he means the bearing shell. Would a bit of a soak in penetrating spray free it?
Would a bit of a soak in penetrating spray free it?
I've never had to do it but I suspect it would take a lot more effort and be a PITA.
How it could get from being in reasonable condition to that is beyond me.
Mavic crossride hub run cartridge bearings, but have a similar setup to shimano loose bearing hubs, where you can preload the cartridge bearing. Uses special 6001 2RS C3 bearings which are preloadable.
Even though asking for a refund after 2 months is taking the pee - I'd never describe a product as in VGC unless I'd taken it apart myself.
You admit you hadn't touched it in 18 months, and it was 2nd to start with (so may never have even been serviced) so how could you be sure of its condition before selling?
You admit you hadn't touched it in 18 months
Sorry if I was unclear. I had it on my 29er during that time, which as my 3'rd bike got little use, but was used at least twice a month during that time. I split the bike maybe a month before selling the wheel - which had been working faultlessly for me. You are right to say that I maybe should not have described the wheel as VGC without giving it a rebuild, but aside from this the whole wheel was spotless, and a true as anything. Surely if I had rebuilt the hub prior to sale I would have sold it as such. It is true that VGC is very ambiguous though.
2 months is too long, PayPal will not open a dispute after that time. The wheel was cheap as well. Another thing is I would always try out a new purchase even if it would go into storage.
Thing is he might have tried to take it apart and then fubared it, rode it like that and broke it so now he might be trying it on You to get some money back.
VGC is very ambiguous though.
Is it? I'd say it means very good condition, not maybe good condition but I didn't bother to check.
Still, 2 months is too long. His fault for not checking when it arrived.
I've seen dented frames described as VGC...
but we digress.
2 months for a second hand part is too long. The only time a buyer off here (STW first time round) disputed a part with me, he did so immediately, someone above mentioned taking wheel from box & spinning it to check bearings, anyone with any sense would do that with any wheel, even new, just to do that stoopid cyclist thing of spinning a new wheel.
I'd offer to take the wheel back, refund minus P&P, and get it looked at & maybe repaired by own LBS.
bigyinn - MemberMavic crossride hub run cartridge bearings, but have a similar setup to shimano loose bearing hubs, where you can preload the cartridge bearing. Uses special 6001 2RS C3 bearings which are preloadable.
Weird! whats the advantage? every day is a school day on STW
andemJeremy - MemberWeird! whats the advantage? every day is a school day on STW
You can adjust out the play on a hub.
Two months?
Sorry if you sent it in good faith why should you feel morally obliged to a). trust a buyers word who you've never met and b). offer a warranty?
Sounds like the outer race is seized in the hub
You wouldn't have been able to spot this unless you dismantled the wheel so claiming it was VGC sounds reasonable if everything looked & performed as expected
too long. unless you are a bike shop offering a warranty... 😉
2 months? way too long, just their word they didn't use it. You know yourself if it was fine when you sent it, if it was tough to them.
Buyer beware IMO. its up to him to check the goods are as described and get back to you in a reasonable time if they are not. 2 months time is not reasonable. tell him to politely get knotted and you know that they were in the condition you described when you sent them.
So he bought this wheel, it arived and he didn't take it out of the box and spin it? When ever i take a wheel out of a bike i will always spin it to make sure it is running true and bearings are ok and this guy is saying in the two months that he had the wheel he didn't once think of checking it?
That sounds very strange to me.
Hahaha thats comedy!!! 2 months!!!! He is high on crack. You are not a shop, tell him to sod off.
A cynic could say hes a young lad- binned it and thought 'try it on with this sucker to pay for its repair'.
The eejit has probably been cleaning the hub with WD40 or GT85 religiously for the last 8 weeks!