*pokes Agency_Scum with a stick*
irony is just like steely but with more carbon. You like carbon and steel don't you?
I hear there is a bike jumble tomorrow.
Bike jumble, where?
Well then chaps.
We've had the benefit of the new trails on the quarry section for two weeks now - myself having ridden them more than enough times (Bikefest, twice after work) and at the risk of sounding like a 'I told you so' but:
I told you so.
I think.
My thoughts are this from what I've seen so far:
Positives:
-Seriously well built trails
-Fun, in a pump track way,
- It's clearly going to be all weather
- Not going to wreck bikes/riders with mud all the time
- Getting more people into riding
- More accessible
Negatives:
- It's a bit boring - as I think I commented before, sanitised
- At the moment, from what I can see, it's just the same type of trail all the way around
- Berms and pumpy bits are great fun, but get a bit samey after a while
- Some serious need to educate the twits who STILL think its a bright idea to ride the oncoming way (opposite way) to the proper direction of the trail
- With the trail being faster, so are the riders. And now they're REALLY pinning it which leads to:
- Slower riders getting in the way (I had this yesterday, and I don't really mind, but some people do)
- Faster riders getting arsey or agressive and not being patient
- Families trying out the trails and presenting a problem to experienced arsey/irresponsible riders in various ways
- Sanitised (going on what we've seen
- As a result, the experienced riders will more frequently ride the unofficial trails putting more stress on the local environment and clashing with other Ashton Court users
There are plenty more pros and cons which I discussed with a fellow SingletrackWorld forum user yesterday - whom I took around the new bit for the first time.
I don't want anyone to get me wrong, I'm very grateful for what we have been/are being given - I will ride it happily - incorporating it into my 'loop' of trails that I ride daily, however I'm interested to hear what others have to say about the now developing trails?
I can't decide whether it is a good thing or a bad thing what is developing here - all I know is that it's becoming very santised - and some of the most enjoyable parts of the Ashton Court trails are being wiped from the map which to me is a massive shame 🙁
I'll add: I take on the comments about the meeting - I didn't hear about it - and that's nobodies fault really, and so I guess I can't complain there. It's a fair point whoever pointed that out.
A lot is being discussed about Ashton Court but when is the work at Leigh Woods starting and what do people think the trails will be like there? I have only ridden Ashton Court a few times as I usually ride on the Quantocks but I'm looking forward to the new stuff. I'm planning to wait until its all complete though so I can give my opinion then.
I like what they have done with the upper quarry trail, not so keen on the lower quarry trail, but I used to ride that in reverse anyway as it was better that way.
I reckon the singletrack in LW will be fairly sanitised with the odd lump and berm, and a couple of rocky and rooty swoopy sections between rain gullys.
I rarely ride in Ashton court, as I prefer Leigh woods, but headed over there last week and I though it was a bit dull to tell the truth.
Ideal track for a Hybrid, as you don't need suspension, or knobbly tyres to ride it.
I was wondering if it was supposed to be a Green trail, and then Blues and Reds would appear in 50 Acre/Leigh woods, I doubt it, but we can live in hope.
Mind you not sure how long it will last by the amount of pillocks skidding all the way down it.
I really, really hope they don't do the same to Leigh woods, as bar the big cycle clubs straight lining the hard bits (re: the knicker trail, who removed the hard cornered after the wall drop!!!!!!, or the alternative route down from the picnic bench avoiding the roots) its got some fairly decent riding.
I enjoy the new trails and from my ride a couple of nights ago where I rode the quarry trails a few times then went to BBL, it was thrown into sharp contrast just how much better the new trails cope with rain - I was dry/clean after the quarry, filthy after BBL.
So I think the new trails are good from an all weather, all year round perspective and I think that come winter we'll be much happier.
But... I think they have definitely lost the essence of what they were since they're basically narrowed BMX tracks and I can't help but feel that they may become quite samey after a bit. A bit like eating McDonalds all the time (and I'll ignore the sanctimonious - I enjoy a big mac a couple of times a year) - good for a quick hit but you'd feel supersized and bored of it soon enough. I guess that we will still have 50 acre and the parts of LW that don't get built to play with when the conditions are good (so that'll be a week or two a year 🙂 ) but I can't help but feel that it's been a bit of a missed opportunity.
I do wonder if the plans are for all the trails to basically be the same as quarry - it certainly looks like it judging by the trails currently being worked on (over the fence from the grassy field and New Barn woods) which would be a shame - I was expecting it to be a bit more, say, Afan-like which has some rocky/rooty sections along with the smoother stuff that we're seeing.
Mind, as a positive, with them being so smooth, they'll be fun on a CX bike I reckon... 🙂
Agreed on all points above. However, as I mentioned - it will have a negative effect on the unofficial trails in Leigh Woods in that they'll more than likely become more and more used.
And I know from riding them the other day after all the rain that although they drain better, they're awful in places to ride due to the thin layer of topsoil meaning its a skid pan.
Can anyone with any knowledge of the plans comment on the difficulty and continuity of the Ashton Court trails - will they be the same as what has been developed so far?
Additionally, the bikes shops will be loving this as all of those guys who brought the 'perfect' Ashton Court bike will now be looking to find that perfect bike for the smoother trails.
A short travel hardtail with semi slicks is all you need now - whether thats a good or a bad thing is subject to debate...
Leave Leigh Woods alone please. Do what you like to Ashton Court and 50-acre Wood, but please leave Leigh Woods as it is.
Actually I disagree on LW - the vast majority of riders stick to the obvious trail IME so new trails will mean fewer riders onto the less well known stuff.
I don't know if that will be the case, when there is a motorway running through the woods, as people tend to follow tyre tracks.
Leigh Woods is nice, as it seem to attract riders who are happy getting lost, rather than following arrows.
On another note, if they are going to be build more trails in LW, are they going to use any of the harvested timber?
I have of late,—but wherefore I know not,—lost all my gnar, forgone all custom of lugging supertacky minions uphill; and indeed, it goes so heavily with my disposition - that goodly norco frame, the death barge, seems to me a sterile lunk; this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o’erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire,—why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours into which I am no longer inclined to jump. What a piece of work is man on a rigid singular swift! How noble in reason! how infinite in faculties! in form and moving, how express and admirable! in action how like a fat drunk angel! in apprehension, how like a god! the beauty of the world! the paragon of animals! And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust?
Well, that disclaimer out of the way, actually it's pretty bloody good. Yes it's different, yes it's brand new so hasn't yet got much character, but it [i]will[/i] erode, everything does, it [i]will[/i] eventually get roots growing through it, because the roots you've been riding near to death will hopefully regrow, people [i]will[/i] miss corners and odd lines will evolve and it [i]will[/i] actually be rideable in winter. (Yay!)
On a damp, farily gopping Wednesday night during a 10 minute window there were 8 riders I saw on quarry and another 4 nearby, having recently ridden it. Without this sort of work the only way to keep AC rideable at all is to organise a cull of MTBers. For comparison, in leigh woods there were 0, in t'other bit there were 0, in 50 acre there was 1. Furthermore, in these locations there was approximately 100 of mud. And believe me, I do a lot of standing around "admiring the view"; I'm fat and lazy. Plenty of opportunity to count.
And as for "it's not like it was" well no, but it was even better [i]before[/i] before, pre-timberland, last century, before all you other buggers turned up with your crabon fibre picnics, fancy-schmancy seatposts and modern city-folk ways. Yes I'd prefer a more earthy, rootsy, "natural" trail, but in order to get that I'm going to need all of y'all to bugger off and stop cycling round these here parts. Until you see sense and do just that, I reckon that this is going to be the best option.
And remember, if you really, [i]really[/i] want it lumpier, just take the Welsh Trail Centre approach - armour up, hop on your rig, set gravity droppers to 'mince' and drag that back brake all the way round the sucker! But if you do, just try and remember why there's hub deep puddles come November.
The remainder of the trail in Ashton Court will almost certainly be similar to the Quarry Trail. There are going to be more optional sections added in like the rock drop-offs in the Upper Quarry Trail - there are plans for more jumpy stuff and drops along the Quarry Trails too, they just didn't have time to build them before the Bike Fest. It's all very smooth at the moment (which I think translates to it being frickin' ace to ride, suspension or no) but it will inevitably get rougher as it wears in.
The reason the Leigh Woods trail doesn't drop down to the bottom isn't because it's family friendly (Ride the Brechfa Blue trail if you don't think "all abilities" trails have climbs) It's because putting a built trail down the side of the gorge isn't feasible from an environmental point of view. It's one of the most important areas for nature in the region so building an official trail there using machinery is out. Even some of the trail they've got permission for is going to be built entirely by hand.
The trail follows the existing Ho Chi Minh loop (minus the Ridge) which I think is a sensible move - it's clearly a popular route (people have kept on riding it despite it degrading so badly) and putting in a new trail away from it would effectively double the damage to the woodland. It loops back on itself so the unofficial but established trails are going to be well off most riders' radar.
No North Shore I'm afraid as it's a pain to build and maintain. Maintenance is still going to be carried out by volunteers (i.e. muggins here) but it's going to be much easier in the past, plus we will hopefully have revenue streams (e.g. a cut of the bikewash) rather than having to chug people at Bikefest.
If you want to keep up to date, or ask questions, the best sources of info are the designers:
or @architrail on Twitter. I'm on bristoltrailsgroup@gmail.com, FB and Twitter if you want to ask me questions but to be honest you're probably better off getting it from the horse.
I can't help but feel that it's been a bit of a missed opportunity.
On the contrary, I would imagine Bristol's bike scene is going to go absolutely ballistic off the back of this, which is going to open up far more opportunities than a handful of blokes chucking mud about in the wood. 🙂
Eccles, that is the first and last time I will ever see anyone describe a Norco Death Barge (TM) as "a collection of vapours". Your poetic licence should be revoked and you should have to hand over your badge, your laudanum and your quill.
Chaps, thanks for your posts - they make a lot of sense.
However, I do agree with what you're saying, and I do see that the trail will naturally find its form.
However, is this issue of direction going to handled? I'd hate for the renewed speeds that are being found to take out a young family just getting into riding and end up in the local papers...
I'm more worried about myself than the young family. Almost wiped myself out twice this morning on upper quarry - TBH the speeds you can get once you're a bit more familiar with it (and pumping!) are pretty scary - for me at least - and if you go off line it tends to be a nice soft earthy mound to stop your front wheel dead or a tree to stop you dead...
The new 'New Barn' stuff looks mad too - had a look and I think I might be investing in a BMX - rows of bumps that look like the pump track! Still guess learning new skills keeps things interesting.
Some good points about the trails wearing in and it'll be interesting to see how that goes. I still can't help feeling disappointment at the loss of some of the trails though. Just hope that as I get more familiar with the new ones that that fades.
Agreed Clubber, I've blasted through there and had to 'check' my speed (that tree on the right half way down on the left handed hip is a bit close too).
One thing that is a massive bonus (and one of the reasons why we are moving closer) is that I can now reasonably expect to ride it every morning and evening on my commute and not be ruined by the end of it, and that, for one, is a very very nice feeling.
Therefore I pronounce the new trails 'a good thing' in my book.
Its alright, you can thank me later. hehe.
Thanks to all those whom have worked on the trails - I owe you some pints in the Mall if I ever meet you.
Just rereading my posts they may sounds more negative than I intended. I am actually enjoying the new stuff, it's just that I miss the old stuff (though the conditions just before the old stuff was bulldozed may be tinting them a bit more rosy). Once all of AC and HCM in LW are done that's a significant proportion of the trails in Bristol that were fun (not all of the time admittedly) gone and the old ones that remain tend to hold up even worse so we're lots of the stuff that for me at least gave Bristol trails their own character.
If they **** up the mug trail I will not be amused.
To be fair, that really does need some work. It's proper trashed.
mug trail? Tbh some of these trail names are proper confuddling me...
Mug trail is the trail in LW that has a couple of mugs on it...
Therefore I pronounce the new trails 'a good thing' in my book.
Well strike up the band and instruct the church bells to ring out across Avon and Somerset. 😐
C'mon TooTall - raise a smile, IME, the new stuff is great on a 29er... surely that makes you happy 😀
Yes it needs work, but just don't smooth it over!
One point that has been missed is that the trails had to be built this way or we risked loosing them all together on environmental grounds. I love the new trails but even if I was luke warm, I'd prefer them to being outlawed from AC.
http://www.cyclistno1.co.uk/blog/bristol-trail-redevelopment-kicks-off.htm
Re the direction point, the new trails are being built to flow better in a certain direction. For example, the uphill arm of the quarry trail has shallower berms and wiggles about a lot more than it used to. The downhill arm has massive berms, direction specific features like rock steps, and a little hill at the start to launch you into the first section.
I'd expect some people to ride the wrong way initially out of curiosity, or for old time's sake, but if it's more fun the official way then that will be the way most people will ride.
One point that has been missed is that the trails had to be built this way or we risked loosing them all together on environmental grounds
The article says the risk was because the trails were getting wider (and encroaching on the orchids I've never noticed - will have a look for them next ride) - I'm not sure that that's really true - I've been riding them for 15+ years and the lines have certainly changed but fundamentally the trails went between certain trees and stayed there, not actually getting wider beyond that gap between the trees - eg they didn't encroach any more land.
Mr_A on direction, my understanding is that BBL is going to still be designated as uphill in which case people will always ride it the 'wrong' way as we have done for years after it was 'officially' made the wrong way with the advent of the TT.
Clubber are you for real?? I've been riding there the last 10 years and the quarry loop in particular has gotten pretty motorway-ish. And there were plenty of spots on Upper quarry where there were 3 lines around trees with a fourth developing. Same on BBL.
Mr Agreeable: If the direction issue isn't address, you may well end up with some public liability issues on your (I say yours, when I actually mean whoever is responsible) hands when someone clatters into someone else and then a smartarse lawyer picks up on it.
Adding to that, its bloody fustrating normally, but now its likely to be even worse, especially as the trail is 'thinner'
That artice that poster above linked to is very good - thanks!
BBL? (sorry, I've been riding them for years and never been told the names).
Clubber are you for real??
Well it's debateable 🙂
I think you've misunderstood what I wrote or that I wasn't clear enough - I agree that the trail itself has widened but the area that it covers is bounded by certain trees and the trails don't go beyond them - so while lower quarry was say 1m wide originally, it was expanding up to 2 or 3m wide but still between those trees and so it wasn't getting wider beyond that eg it limited itself.
BBL = Beggar Bush Lane
Clubber raises a good point. If you are an old skool wheels on the ground sort of rider then some new techniques may have to be learned before you can rule the new trails.
Ok but the effect is still a widening and a lack of planning permission in a sensitive area, everything your typical anti-lobbyist needs! 🙂
I'm a bit behind. Is everything open now? Might go out after lunch
Clubber, the trail was massively wide in places. The end of the open section by the eventing field for example. I haven't seen the reports that the ecologists prepared but apparently they were having kittens. We used to have to spend quite a lot of time at trail days just narrowing down the corridor and closing off the new lines made by people who couldn't be bothered to go round corners.
Neil did you even read what I wrote about direction above? In any event the direction issue has gone unaddressed for years and the estate haven't been deluged with liability claims.
I haven't ridden the new trails yet, only seen them as they were closed in prep for BBF.
When I stopped a few 3 lots of new/beginner riders asked me which bits were closed, so I got talking to them. Apparently they were quite worried about the riders coming head on, I told them people should soon be going the same way. I tried re-assure them that most mountain bikes have damn good brakes, one of the replies was "so why dont they use them then". They also were not sure if they were going the right way, they were.
I don't have much of a problem with people going the wrong way, as long as they acknowledge you've moved over for them. If it's now going to be one way, I won't be moving out the way for the muppets still going the wrong way, they can go the wrong way, they will just have to give way to all the traffic now.
Hope the rain holds off for 4pm tomorrow, so I can ride the AC trails, must try and find LH 😳
I did yes, and I do see what you're saying.
However Mr and Mrs Miggins and their young daughter may not - and may well be pretty aggrieved when someone rounds one of the faster sections.
By increasing the traffic and accessibility to Ashton Court there is a bigger breadth of responsibility - by building man made purpose built trails and, indeed, a trail centre cafe, [i]someone[/i] must be taking responsibility for the running and overseeing of the trails, and in turn they take on the public liability and H&S overhead. Look at what happened at Stil as an example.
Whereas before, all the trails were unofficial (to a degree) and they were VERY clearly ride at your own risk - which is very hard to enforce - and even harder when a trail becomes purpose built rather than naturally.
I'm happy with everybody using the trail - it's great - but I'd hate to start having people shouting at me for razzing down it the right way because of their own ignorance.
It has to be handled somehow - Cwmcarn/Afan doesn't suffer this because Mr and Mrs Miggins and their young daughter don't ever consider riding it!
I'm not getting funny with anyone in particular - but I know it confuses the hell out of me when I start seeing two way traffic - am I going the wrong way or are they? Or is it free for all now?
If it's free for all, then the speeds and visibility on the trail need to be considered as some nasty accidents could be occuring soon from some of the raceheads that have ALREADY decided that they're going to use the Qaurry track as their own personal training ground:
We rode there the other day and were astounded by the lad who, after putting his saddle down to hit the trail (by which time we'd just ridden ahead of him whilst he did that), he skidded to a halt at the end of the trail (ripping up the good work already done on the trail), triggered his stop watch and then did that 'Look at me, I'm cool, but I'm angry at myself that I didn't better my best time' shake of the head.
They, I'm sorry to say, are going to be the ones who clatter Mr and Mrs Miggins and their young daughter - not the majority of us here.
ETA also, Mr and Mrs Miggins and their young daughter don't read this forum. Nor will they likely bother to read any website info or whatever - so it needs to be trailside info IMHO.
The quarry trail is going to be knackered very very quickly by the muppets skid everywhere anyway, so I guess it will slow people down in the long run anyway. I saw one group who appeared to be seeing who could do the longest skid, at the end of the quarry section 🙁
Perhaps a 'keep the skids in your trousers' poster/notice is needed at either end of the trail.
I'm a bit behind. Is everything open now? Might go out after lunch
Nope. Quarry trails closed for repair of BBF wear and to change a few bits to sort the flow out. New Barn wood closed (both the new red trail and the old rocky section). Singletrack from bombhole by the monument to the quarry trails closed for trail to bed in.
Pretty sure BBL is still open, but most of the other stuff is not. Of course there's still d*ckheads riding it, using the "but they didn't consult [b][i]me[/i][/b]" argument (true story).
