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[Closed] Bottom cup headset woes

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I'm after a bit of experience and (hopefully) knowledge from STW.

Ti456 Evo needed a new headset, so ordered a fancy top and bottom from Superstar (as they were running an offer at the time):44ZS, 49EC.

No issues with the top cup, however, the bottom one pushed in by hand!
Once in and pre loaded, I can rotate the bottom cup in the frame, and I can feel movement back and forth.

The original on-one smoothie needed knocking out as per normal so I don't belive there to be an issue with the frame.

Any one else had similar issues? I don't really want to bodge it with bearing sealant or a coke can shim.
I would't mind forking out for a good quality one if it fixes it, but don't want to chuck money at it if it doesn't.

Ps. Tapered head but straight steerer using a crown race adapter.

Any help/advice greatfully received as I don't want to ride it incase I damage the frame, the next step will be the LBS.

Phill


 
Posted : 15/05/2017 10:53 am
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Locktite bearing fit is your friend. Or send it back and get one from a reputable supplier? Have you got verniers to measure it?


 
Posted : 15/05/2017 10:56 am
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I would say that's been over machined and you should send it back for a replacement.
If you have a micrometer (or verniers at a pinch) measure the old bottom cup and the new to see if there's a difference in diameter.


 
Posted : 15/05/2017 10:57 am
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Or send it back and get one from a reputable supplier?

Whats wrong with SS headsets?


 
Posted : 15/05/2017 11:13 am
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[i]Whats wrong with SS headsets? [/i]

tj has a long memory and a poor opinion 🙂


 
Posted : 15/05/2017 11:17 am
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Yup

the number of faulty components supplied seems very high from reading on here and altho he has worked hard to overcome his initial extremely poor customer service and is doing OK as a business I would never buy of someone who has behaved as he did and who produces poor quality products so often.

Buy cheap buy twice - isn't that the old adage?


 
Posted : 15/05/2017 11:25 am
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OK, I'll sort out some verniers and measure up.
At least I'm not going to damage anything getting the cup back out!

Watch this space...


 
Posted : 15/05/2017 11:28 am
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tjagain - Member

the number of faulty components supplied seems very high

Brake pads and inconsistent spoke tensions are the only ones I can remember and I haven't heard anything on both counts in ages. So there's nothing wrong with the headsets then other than you not liking the company?


 
Posted : 15/05/2017 11:38 am
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I don't really want to bodge it with bearing sealant

[url= http://www.loctite.co.uk/loctite-4087.htm?nodeid=8802627616769 ]Loctite 638[/url] is pretty good I've used it a few times for its intended purpose. Hardest part is keeping the bearing concentric with the tube while it cures but once set the bearing's not going anywhere. Easily removed with judicious use of the mrs best hairdryer


 
Posted : 15/05/2017 11:51 am
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I love that the assumption is that the SS headset cup is undersize.

On-one have a less than stellar record on such things themselves...


 
Posted : 15/05/2017 11:59 am
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I've got a lot of love for SS components, as is shown by the fact that I have a fair few of their bits hanging off of my bike (and my sons bike).

I guess the assumption is based on the fact that the On-one cup needed knocking out, while the SS cup slid in with very little pressure.

So perhaps either I orderd the wrong cup size, the O-o cup was in fact oversize and has stretched the head tube or perhaps the SS cup was undersize.

I'll measure it as accuratly as I can and take it from there.
I'm hoping the cup has missed it's quality control as this is the best case scenario for me, and if so I'll get another SS replacement.

Keeping my fingers crossed.


 
Posted : 15/05/2017 12:13 pm
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OK,
O-o bottom cup is 49.7mm diameter, while the SS cup is 49.4mm.
(This was measured with an old set of verniers and dodgy eyesight, I'm going to borrow a set of digital ones to confirm).

I couldn't find anything on tolerances on the SuperStar website, but as it's described as a 49mm headset, I'm guessing that the problem isn't their end.

So does this mean that the frame has an ever so slightly oversized head tube (only at the bottom) and just by luck (or design?) the On-one headsets are also oversized to compensate?

Does this mean that all makes are going to be loose? or do I need to start contacting manufacturers and find one that does a slightly larger cup?

The SS only inserts 10mm, while the O-o inserts 20mm, adding to its better fit.

If anyone has words of wisdom, please share.
For now I'm going to start researching and contacting.

Why couldn't I have found this out during the bloody winter!


 
Posted : 16/05/2017 8:10 am
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It's possible the head tube narrows a little so the deeper insert of the On-one cup solves the problem?


 
Posted : 16/05/2017 8:14 am
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To check what sizes your frame and cup should be you may find some answers on the hope headset fitting chart.


 
Posted : 16/05/2017 8:14 am
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O-o bottom cup is 49.7mm diameter, while the SS cup is 49.4mm.

If those measurements are accurate then I'd say the OO cup is bang on what you'd expect, and the SS one is slightly undersized.

The SHIS specs are:

SHIS Name - cup OD- Headset Bore ID

ZS49 - 49.7 - 49.57–49.65 (known as 1.5" semi-integrated/zero stack)
EC49 - 49.7 - 49.55–49.6 (known as 1.5" external pressed cup)

Most '49mm' headset cups live in the 49.65-49.7 range, with most being bang on 49.7

Double check the measurements and if it is as you say I'd be sending that back to SS for a proper sized replacement.


 
Posted : 16/05/2017 8:31 am
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Thank you all.

Andy and Amedias, that's exactly the info I needed.


 
Posted : 16/05/2017 9:19 am
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Does the SS bearing fit in the O-o cup?


 
Posted : 16/05/2017 9:44 am
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What does the frame measure at 10/20mm deep?

Other manufacturers do deep lower cups, tbh I can't think of any except a Chris King SteelSet.


 
Posted : 16/05/2017 9:51 am
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monkeyfiend
I have a Hope 49EC in black going spare if you want it. Was fitted to my 456 EVO Ti (until I snapped the frame). Can do a pic tonight if you're interested. Bearing virtually new/cup older.

Can also do top ZS44 assy too if you want to go fully Hope. Team green.

£20 for one end or £35 for both sound OK?
Preston area.
email in profile.


 
Posted : 16/05/2017 10:12 am
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I was going to replace the bearings, however the lower bearing has seized solid in the cup, the bearing fell apart as I tried to prize it out, and the outer race is still locked solid, hence new assembly.

I haven't got anything that'll measure the ID deeper than 10mm into the frame.

My plan at the moment is to get some digital verniers at lunch time and then properly check the SS cup, depending on the outcome, I may be in touch with you [i]Ecky[/i].


 
Posted : 16/05/2017 10:23 am
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Resurrection...

I don't suppose anyone has a 'back door' way of contacting SS components?

I'm sadly starting to feel messed about by them 🙁

No answer from the telephone (over the course of 2 weeks).

Very occasional email, even after sending a fair few of them to different contact addresses.

The cup has been with them for over 2 weeks, and the last contact from them explained that their chief engineer type guy was sick and due back last Tuesday.

I understand problems, but just let me know what's going on, OK!

[i](BTW brand new digital verniers measured the On One cup at 49.70, while the SS cup was 49.58.)[/i]

Grrrrrrrrrr


 
Posted : 02/06/2017 4:27 pm
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Just to add my experience

I recently bought and fitted a 2 SS headsets one for my lad's Orange 5 and one for my Mojo

I was surprised at how easily the cups went in to both frames though once fitted neither are loose

I'd suggest that maybe SS headsets size up just a shade small. Perhaps your frame is similarly a touch big


 
Posted : 02/06/2017 4:54 pm
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[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/frosty ]Do you mean to say I wasted my time and money?[/url] I could've jus wacked 'em in wiv a mallet?


 
Posted : 02/06/2017 9:04 pm
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eulach - yes exactly that. Fitted my two with a few gentle taps from a rubber mallet to get it in straight then a few sharp ones to fully seat it


 
Posted : 02/06/2017 9:25 pm