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For longevity, reliability & maintenance? Is Hope still the standard for that even thought they'd cost more?
Hope haven't really been at the pinnacle of reliability since the Hope XC/Ti-glide days (and even they weren't perfect), everything from then onwards has been more failure prone in one way or another, especially in terms of bearing life, however they are still very good hubs and I happily run a few pairs of Pro2 and Pro4 as you know what you're getting, parts are available* easily and they're very adaptable, and generally speaking if you are unlucky enough to break one you'll get it fixed quicker than most others.
Have you considered Shimano? Or are you not a C+C fan?
Kings will last longer in the long run, but do need more looking after than "bash 'em in" style cartridge hubs, and will be more expensive up front, but they do literally go on forever if you look after them, and all parts are available as spares (but costly). I've got a few pairs that are nearing their 20th birthday and have cost me nothing but grease over that time.
If you want better reliability than Hope, long life, not outrageuos cost, and still want decent availability of spares then it's hard to recommend anything other than DT Swiss IME.
*That's the key bit for me, you could walk into most decent bike shops and they'll have adaptors, hopefully bearings, and maybe a freehub for Hope hubs, and if they don't can order it next day if needs be, try that with Bitex/Other. Novatec are pretty easy to get bits for but more of a minefield with parts variations and still not stocked in the average LBS.
For long term ownership - Hope or Chris King would be my choice.
What wwaswas said. Though I've had no issues with dtswiss either.
DT 240 is the default answer here
I'm liking my current DT Swiss ones
Hope haven't really been at the pinnacle of reliability since the Hope XC/Ti-glide days (and even they weren't perfect), everything from then onwards has been more failure prone in one way or another, especially in terms of bearing life, however they are still very good hubs and I happily run a few pairs of Pro2 and Pro4 as you know what you're getting, parts are available* easily and they're very adaptable, and generally speaking if you are unlucky enough to break one you'll get it fixed quicker than most others.
3000miles on a set of pro2 bearings is good going in my view, pro4's I have are coming up to a 2000miles and bearings are still fine. I will admit that I will pull the bearing seals off periodically and apply fresh grease.
3000miles on a set of pro2 bearings is good going in my view
Absolutely, but others have been a lot less lucky, just because some of them fail doesn't mean they ALL will. But IME the Pro2 -> Pro4 era have had more reliability issues, whether that's the early snappy axles on 12mm hubs, reduced bearing life from the move to cartridges with smaller balls, premature freehub pawl spring failure, or hubshell splitting (which was always an occasional issue TBF).
FWIW none of my Pro2/4 have failed either so as another sample of 1 they're fine, but I have seen a fair few other failures both in person/through workshop, and reported online.
Don't get me wrong though, I'm not dissing them, I still think they're great hubs and I still use them myself, they're just not the guaranteed trouble-free Nirvana that they're sometimes portrayed as 🙂
DT240 or 350 if money is tight.
Hope are great for training and I really like the way that the endcaps are so changeable but I'd not do BC bike race etc on a set. I've had cracked freehubs, pawl failures etc and a recent competitor on Tour Divide had a fairly catastrophic failure.
Hope aren't the lightest and may not be the most reliable - but the adaptability counts for a lot and the support is great.
I tend to go for whatever comes up at the right price, I'm gathering parts for a new build now and just got an unused Pro 4 rear hub for £80. Now I dunno whether to spend £53 on a matching Pro 4 front or go cheaper and non-matching.
Bugger, this isn't easy, as a bit of a work bonus means new Trail/Marathon wheels with £400 budget are in the offing:
Choice then:
[i]Hope Tech XC 1734g @ £326
JRA build Crest with Bitex hubs SS bearings 1470g £400
JRA build Arch with Bitex hubs SS bearings 1659g £400[/i]
My temptation is to go with the JRA Crests as I'll have a pair of Alex/Chosen wheels e.g. tough as spares.
If you're getting them built anyway why Not Hope + Crest (or Arch)?
Superstar are doing their Electro hubs with Stans rims for £290/pair at the mo.
But I'd probably get the Tech XC if the rim width suits your needs.
I was a great fan of JRA (and have 2 wheelsets from them) until they ditched DT etc. Now I wouldn't consider them.
Look back at the various (myriad!) similar threads on this - Action Sports. Now on about 300miles on my DT240/crests which were much cheaper from them than elsewhere. Very pleased.
https://www.actionsports.de/en/dt-swiss-350-disc-is-custom-wheelset-mtb-29er-4169?c=398
DT350, Dlights, Crests, pro lock alloy nipples - 489Euro and 1578g. I'd take the reliability and decent spokes over 100g. In fact I'd go without beer for 2 months and upgrade to DT240/CX ray and have done with it.
Have had a set of DT240s for 10 years now. They've had a couple sets of new bearings (1 set was purely because I was changing the axles from 135x10 -> 142x12 and 20mm to 15mm), I changed the rachet ring to the newer 36 tooth one. Other than that and cleaning the free hub assembly (which you can do without tools or even taking the cassette off) they have been rock solid.
They're currently forming the centre of their 3rd set of wheels and still just keep on keeping on.. In terms of reliability and longterm value for money I wouldn't recommend anything else and that includes Chris King which I also have and am about to build into wheels for my winter road bike as it's the only bike I have that still uses 135mm QR and they can't be converted.
I think the nice thing about Hope is that should standards change, you can normally just buy a new set of end caps and carry on...that said I've just had to buy a new set as it appears boost hubs are slightly different. And as mentioned above, if/when they do break, it's never a big issue getting spares or fitting them yourself. I've got Kings, Hopes and DT's at the moment and whilst the Hopes are the cheapest of the three, I'd keep those over the others. Plus they sound SO good!
[quote> https://www.actionsports.de/en/dt-swiss-350-disc-is-custom-wheelset-mtb-29er-4169?c=398
DT350, Dlights, Crests, pro lock alloy nipples - 489Euro and 1578g. I'd take the reliability and decent spokes over 100g. In fact I'd go without beer for 2 months and upgrade to DT240/CX ray and have done with it.
I've been watching these wheels after your last recommendation. I've removed 50g from those by changing to DT Rev spokes but thats still £450. Upgrade to 240's and its an extra £100.
Both over budget - although I have given up booze until the end of August anyway 😀
Are DT350's good / reliable?
includes Chris King which I also have and am about to build into wheels for my winter road bike as it's the only bike I have that still uses 135mm QR and they can't be converted.
Erm... Chris King have axles for every standard available for the ISO hubs, and every current standard for R45s, what hubs have you got that can't be converted?
Are DT350's good / reliable?
yep, very reliable indeed, same internals as 240, marginally heavier, bit cheaper.
Yeah, that's the problem, the Chris King hubs predate the DT's. They are the old Discotech hubs with the adapter for different disc standards (from before 6 bolt was the standard!!)
Ah 'them', I have some too 🙂
You can still convert them to some degree though, the ISO axles should work... not 100% sure at the front (email and ask?) but ISO axles worked in the back Universal/DiscGotech I have when i converted it from QR to 10mm bolt through.
Hmm.. that's interesting to know. I must admit I had mostly just written them off without much research. WIll fire them an email and see what they say. They would go nicely into a pair of 29er wheels for a new build I'm planning.. reduce, re-use, recycle and all that.!! 😆
OK I'm being swayed to ADSH's suggestion of paying the extra £50 for the DT reliability over Bitex, both with Crests.
I'll sleep on it and see what happens
Just been having a dig for you and the QR axle option at least shares a part number for ISO and Universal at the front, which implies the 15mm kit would work too... and all the rear axle listings for Universal (DiscGoTech) on AVT bike seem to refer to ISO part numbers too 🙂
For what it's worth.. I have used bitex road hubs laces to h plus son archetype for training in all weathers, and another set to carbon rims for crit/road racing for two seasons. 20000km in all and they are faultless. Smooth, well sealed and easily maintained; not that it has been needed. Top quality gear, although I have no experience of MTB hubs I would imagine good things.
awesome.. thanks for that, will see about getting that sorted and putting them to good use after a while gathering dust.
Unless you are very very light I think the Revs are a WW too far. D lights are as light as I would want to go. The internet consensus is that Crests and Revs are flexy.
Kryton; before you pull the trigger, consider this guy. Best wheels I have ever owned and free advice.
I've just weight out what 315g weight saving (over may current wheels) looks like - basically my phone & my wallet.
I think I'm driving myself mad...
best not to think about it too much, or you end up buying ENVE M50 on Extralite Hyper Hubs, then get pissed off when you notice Light Bikes, have a new super light rim and you could have saved another 100+ grams
[url= https://preview.ibb.co/kCqwVF/Screen_Shot_2017_07_18_at_14_48_32.pn g" target="_blank">https://preview.ibb.co/kCqwVF/Screen_Shot_2017_07_18_at_14_48_32.pn g"/> [/img][/url]
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https://www.lightbicycle.com/bead-hook-less-rims-carbon-29er-light-bike-rim-tubeless-compatible.html
I think I'm driving myself mad...
May I present exhibit A:
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/profile/kryton57 ]http://singletrackworld.com/forum/profile/kryton57[/url]
😀 You do seem prone to obsessing over the little things Kryton, I'm not meaning to come across like I'm having a dig, and I don't stalk you on here (I promise) but you do seem to have a history of it as I keep noticing your posts, does this only apply to bikes and riding for you or are you like this over everything?
[s]liek[/s] [b]like[/b] this over everything?
Yep, sorry. 😀
Halo Spin Dr 6D if you want sub-Hope weight (<300g) and price, good back up (via Ison) and overall a really nice hub. Rated - I have 2 now.
(Looks like they've been re-named - http://www.halowheels.com/product/mt-6drive-hub-2/)
FWIW I went with Bitex from JRA for a recent fat bike wheel build. They've not yet had a ton of use but I'm impressed with the quality
It's interesting reading peoples views on Hope Hubs.
I've been a push bike mechanic for a long time. In that time I've seen a hub flange failure on a Pro2 hub once, I haven't witnessed any other 'reliability' issues.
DT Swiss hubs are a bit of a pain in the arse in my opinion. They're overly complicated and thus require much more maintenance than a Hope hub.
DT Swiss hubs are a bit of a pain in the arse in my opinion. They're overly complicated and thus require much more maintenance than a Hope hub.
Lol, how're they complicated? You never need to touch them. Best hubs going.
THe Bitex ones are alright for the weight, but the pawl springs are shite so get some spares if you get them.
No such problems with DT though, since they don't use pawl springs.
Those Crest's on offer at superstar (Sapim CX Ray & nipples) seem good value at sub £300 for circa 1550g using my own maths - anyone know what the Electro hubs are like?
Most of my friends run hope. On the rare occasions when a spoke hole has cracked hope have replaced it free of charge. They checked the serial number and it was over 5 years old.
Hope are not the lightest, they don't have the most pick ups but they do seem bomb proof and the customer service is exceptional.
You can always pick up spares and they are easy to maintain.
I've even seen someone use the zip tie fix for a broken pawl.
Having said that, if I had the money, Chris King. The hubs although on the heavy side are a thing of beauty!
I once saw a cut out version at a trade show and the way it works is fantastic
It's interesting reading peoples views on Hope Hubs.I've been a push bike mechanic for a long time. In that time I've seen a hub flange failure on a Pro2 hub once, I haven't witnessed any other 'reliability' issues.
Maybe your experience is as much a statistical outlier as mine?
In [b]the last 12 months [/b]I've seen a split shell, floppy freehub pawls, a flange/spoke hole breakaway, a collapsed axle, and 2 cases of 'Why do these bearings keep failing so quickly', and I [i]don't[/i] work in a bike shop any more, that's all through a community workshop and friends.
But I personally haven't had a Pro2->4s failure for the last ~7 years! And I'd always be happy to recommend them based on availability of parts alone, nobody else's hubs are as easily supported in the UK.
DT Swiss hubs are a bit of a pain in the arse in my opinion. They're overly complicated and thus require much more maintenance than a Hope hub.
It is funny how experiences can be so different isn't it, as I find them pretty simple, and generally have spent less time having to do maintenance with DT than any other hubs, Hope, King, Shimano, Novatec, Campag, White Industries, Mavic etc. have all needed more attention.
The only complicated bit about DT swiss is getting to the one bearing that very rarely needs replacing, everything else about them is as simple as any other cartridge bearing hub and the freehub mechanism is generally more robust. They can be a pain when you need to do 'that' bearing, but I've not yet had to do it to any of my own in ~10 years. They're by far the most reliable hubs I've ever come across.
Anyway Kryton, I'm sure you'll be fine with whatever option you choose, just look after whatever you do go for and they should give you loads of reliable service.
I'm gathering parts for a new build now and just got an unused Pro 4 rear hub for £80.
Damn that's a good price. Wish I'd seen that!
adsh - Member
> https://www.actionsports.de/en/dt-swiss-350-disc-is-custom-wheelset-mtb-29er-4169?c=398DT350, Dlights, Crests, pro lock alloy nipples - 489Euro and 1578g. I'd take the reliability and decent spokes over 100g. In fact I'd go without beer for 2 months and upgrade to DT240/CX ray and have done with it.
Just book marking.
An update - I said I'd sleep on it.
I had a great training ride last night, including 20x uphill sprints I collected many strava gold medals and top 10's in local leaderboards.
I've decided £400 will buy 4 months of more valuable coaching toward 2018 over the winter, which I believe offsets the 316g saving.
I have set myself the carrot of a strong indicative performance in Race 1 next March leading to the purchase of some DT240's/Crests as suggested by ADSH as a reward for my winter efforts, also giving me time to save for the extra.