I nearly took mine along as backup. I did spot you out there on it.
Sympathies with the OP but let's get this in perspective. There were some 600 odd people racing on the Saturday (not all at once as the bulk are in teams of four) and it may well be that a few of them do not understand some of the conventions of overtaking, but I for one thought that the behaviour was very reasonable & better than in previous years. Of course there will always be the odd idiot, and in the early stages of the event I'm sure some racers are a bit hot headed and the field has not yet spread out.
Obviously incidents such as the OP's are really unfortunate but the course is quite technical in places and I can well imagine a few accidents will occur. One of the more serious happened off the jump next the the start/finish line which was quickly removed straight afterwards!
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/29er-bar-width-for-xc-racing?replies=17#post-5053703
See this post. Some absolute tool knocked me off at 20mph on the really wide straight section after the fastest straight to switchback fireroadish decent. Few hours in to a solo 12 and was 2nd in open at the time (finished 3rd so happy enough)
I was solo but still overtaking/being overtaken quite a lot during the day. Apart from this incident everyone was very polite, good banter all round. I'm afraid its the few that spoil it for the many.
My 2p on overtaking is to shout rider as you are approaching (but not directly behind) the person you want to pass to give them warning that someone is there (as they dont always notice you) then if a direct opportunity to pass presents itself I would say passing on your left/right (how much longer does it take to add the passing on your left bit for absolute clarity rather than just left right). If there isn't a direct opportunity to pass I would say any chance I can get past when you get a chance, then sit there patiently until they say pass on right/left now. Then when past, 'thanks very much mate, nice one, appreciated'. This approach has had a 100% smile and thanks pass rate for me over the years. Some dude even said to me 'good riding dude' at the bikefest so customer feedback is also good 🙂
Wow, we came away from the event and our reaction was how friendly everyone had been!
Our overtaking experience was much better than we'd experienced at Mayhem or SITS for instance. It should be noted that as we were riding rigid single speeds our experience of being overtook was considerable ;o)
Takes two to tango when overtaking ime and as there are a few agendas out on the track sometimes it doesn't work out. Just a 'can I pass when you're ready?' has always worked for me.
Thought it was a great event as a first timer and we'll probably go again.
Healing vibes to the OP.
On your left/right is a very psychologically confusing thing to shout...it's like saying 'don't think of a pink hippopotamus'.
On the track when your lapping someone you shout 'stay down'. If you shouted coming past above...they'd inevitably move up and wipe you out.
It's strange people's opinions this is the 4th year I've done it and found this year the most polite for over taking! I did have one tool try to over take me blind, he got baulked and abused I put my foot down and didn't see him again!
At the same time whenever I heard a rider behind I would shout "Take my left" and i'd move to the right, I got a polite "Thank you" every time ..well except one..the bloke replied "who's left, yours or mine?" ...mmme he wasn't being funny either did make me chuckle!!!
I had a brilliant weekend, loved every minute of it again as always.
Ashton Court attracts the 'racers' year round now. I stopped riding there (other than mid-week when quiet) because of the head-down, aerse-up numpties wanting me to pull over where I couldn't so they could Strava themselves round.
Just back home now - had someone come up to me on our stand post race this afternoon to say thanks for a polite overtaking move! Well chuffed with that. It's not hard to be sympathetic to the needs of other riders and represent your team well....... Something that many could learn to do. Race results are a tiny part of being a team rider - it's how you represent yourself and the brand that sticks in people's minds.....
Have to say for a first race and doing it singlespeed I was amazed how polite and friendly everyone was. Yep, had lots of people pass me- but never felt intimidated or that it was too close. If I heard them coming I told them when to pass- if not people asked me to let them know when it was good to go. Even had some of the very fast people have a quick chat before disappearing off. I've had worse experiences doing a practice lap at Mayhem or SITS with people crashing into me. Loved the event and would certainly do it again.
As someone who is overtaken more than I overtake, I've never had any problem whatsoever understanding what 'on your left/right' means, but 'rider' puts me in a confusion as to where I should go, especially if I'm going as hard as I can too!
😯 how long was the course? I hear talk of 30-40 minute laps so 10-12kms?Sympathies with the OP but let's get this in perspective. There were some 600 odd people racing on the Saturday
A measurment of 'riders per km' at any one time would put some of this in perspective. (ie you count soloists as one and pairs or complete teams as one rather than total entries) Indeed I have read this figure 'advertised' in the blurb of I forget which 24 hour race last summer. In my experience the 'nicest' races are usually the ones with a more spaced out field. SPAM Erlestoke 12 has a lot of very narrow and hard-to-pass on singletrack and yet the three I have done have been the best natured races I have done, with respect to overall vibe and sensible/cheerful overtaking: I am sure the low numbers per km made a difference. Last bikefest at Cheddar (nb, never raced at AC) being opposite of this and also the 'fullest' race I have done.
Last couple I have done have been solo though and one thing I miss is waiting for team-mates and people-watching the changover tantrums. 😆
we came away from the event and our reaction was how friendly everyone had been!
Today was my first time at Bikefest and I thought exactly the same thing. I was warned before the event that I'd probably get shouted at but every rider that passed me was polite and said thanks afterwards if I'd moved across 😀
1`m not fast and was overtaken quite often doing 36 min laps but didnt get any abuse from people passing me .The course was 5.7 miles? Laps were 26 up to 45 ish.I thought it was a friendly and well run event.
I've mellowed out a bit now after a kip (4hours friday night before driving to Bristol didn't help) and I probably agree that the majority of people were polite, although I usually heard them coming on the singletrack and took a high line on the berms shouting for them to take the inside whilst pointing. Although the guy who shouted that he was going to pass on my left on the 15 foot wide gravelly climb may have been a tad too excited about being in a team jersey.
Well done to all who raced ( and managed it politely ) and see you next year, I'm gonna do some training next time.
I spent large sections of the course alone so it was far from crowded ime. I also thought that people were more polite if anything compared to previous years and the bike fest has always been a relatively relaxed event anyway.
There were quite a few team jerseys out there .We were team bike city(well 3 of us had team jerseys!) It didnt make me any quicker though
Sympathies with the OP but let's get this in perspective. There were some 600 odd people racing on the Saturday
how long was the course? I hear talk of 30-40 minute laps so 10-12kms?
A measurment of 'riders per km' at any one time would put some of this in perspective. (ie you count soloists as one and pairs or complete teams as one rather than total entries) Indeed I have read this figure 'advertised' in the blurb of I forget which 24 hour race last summer. In my experience the 'nicest' races are usually the ones with a more spaced out field.
It's around 10km, and there were 120 four-person teams, 50 pairs and 80 solo-ists. That makes approx 25 racers per km. How does that compare to other events?
It certainly felt pretty quiet [edit!] after the first two laps or so of madness when everyone was bunched. Of course the course has a good proportion of tight singletrack.
Once the bunching cleared it wasnt that bad at all there was the odd occasion where 2 or 3 riders came by at the same time but by and large there were no bottlenecks .If I went by a solo rider I gave encouragement as that was a hot day to be out for 12 hours
It's around 10km, and there were 120 four-person teams, 50 pairs and 80 solo-ists. That makes approx 25 racers per km. How does that compare to other events? It certainly felt pretty quite after the first two laps or so of madness when everyone was bunched.
I thought it was fairly "quiet" on track, certainly as the day went on I had a couple of fairly clear laps with minimal need to overtake, and not much being overtaken.
I hope I was fairly considerate when overtaking - "can I pass when its safe?" rather than piling through, though I did see one hilarious moment of chaos as 2 people arrived behind me while I was waiting for a chance to overtake and proceeded to make a pigs ear of trying to get round 3 people in one go! On the whole people overtaking me seemed pretty sound too. I've certainly been to events where there have been more idiots.
clubber +1. Repeating comments in other BBF thread, but the field WAS thinner than last year, I had entire sections (eg. quarry) to myself regularly.
so....how is my bike?
Only had one guy being a bit of a dick, I know what team and he was a young guy...so I'll let him off. I think I just laughed at him a bit at the time. As those above have hinted, if you're racing with a someone else's name on your back you'd think you'd take the effort to leave a good impression.
On the whole though I was passing more than being passed, and I find the quickest, easiest way past is to ask folk to let me know when and how they want me to pass, or "let me know where and how it's safe for you" and stressing there's no rush. Invariable people are better disposed towards you and you get by fairly quick with minimal effort for all concerned.
I think the problem is with this sort of event for some folk it's a race, and for others it's a challenge just to be out all day. That's different to a "regular" style XC race that the fast guys will do most often, where everybody's out to go flat out and jockey for position more (and be understanding of it).
Godihatehills... its fine... Dillon has it...51 and counting. Glad your feeling better dude. You also asked if you finished the lap about 50 times. All the really important stuff. Not at all worried about your 2 second memory and 2" gash on your chin.You reminded me of Dori from finding nemo.
Godihatehills... its fine... Dillon has it...51 and counting. Glad your feeling better dude. You also asked if you finished the lap about 50 times. All the really important stuff. Not at all worried about your 2 second memory and 2" gash on your chin.You reminded me of Dori from finding nemo.
Jonny are the chap who spoke to my wife in the ambulance?
Thanks for that it was really reassuring- although apparently phone calls from ambulances = bikes on ebay.
sorry if I did your head in= for what its worth you weren't the only one who had to endure mindless babble.
get well!
Personally I didnt find it that bad this year, the pace was quick and obviously people were keen to get a move on. As others have said, Ashton Court isnt that wide so doesnt lend itself to overtaking but there are spaces to overtake every 30 seconds or so at the most and there is no excuse for being an arse regardless. Usually when I heard people coming up behind me and I just shouted "on my right" so everyone was aware of the proceedings.
To be honest, I'm always surprised solo riders dont have a number on their back too so anyone coming up behind them knows that after 11 hours of racing, their mental state may be similar to their physical state... It would make a bit of a difference.
Awesome atmosphere though and loads of shouting and support in the event village throughout the day so huge thanks to all involved, the caterers and the air cadets.
Yeah that's me. You were fine dude. You were totally out of it. I had gas and air and morphine so I doubt our conversation was that coherent!!
BTW how was your bike?
I totally agree. Solo riders could have a tag on the saddle or glow stick like they do at Torque.
haven't seen it I got released from hospital earlier today as I was struggling to make new memories until about 8am today - bike was carted off by a mate... theres some blood and broken spokes and twisted bars.
all good.
thanks for your help tho mate
get well
Can we just get a bit of perspective here.it is a race with different distances,I podiumed in pairs and was thanking everyone who let me through but I was also aware that the team guys were gonna be faster so when I heard wheels coming ups I called back to give direction on which way to pass me.nobody had to call left or right to me.its difficult i know,but some people are not used to racing etiquette and sometimes when the gap between you and you competitor is small there is an urgency.i personally found everyone really happy to oblige apart from one person who told me it won't get me anywhere..I think everyone on track deserves a big pat on the back for running their own race.
A few thoughts...
The race route should come out of the singletrack and into open field more frequently to allow over taking. Or just design in multiple route option and passing spots.
There was at least one scuffle back at octoberfest due to deliberately awkward overtaking.
I used a pugsley and a bugle horn at octoberfest. The horn for annoying people with clown noises, and the big tyres to allow everyone to pass me on the climbs.
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"You reminded me of Dori from finding nemo. "
LOL. Glad that you two are feeling better.
Ive done BBF and Octoberfest for several years, I find it very friendly and polite.
These threads always appear after the event, one or two people have a bad experience, the majority have a great experience.
There will always be one or two nobs and one or two who fall off, its inevitable.
In general I found it OK, I'll be honest and I say I probably pulled one slightly iffy overtake with no harm done. I think being overtaken on a climb by someone shouting "Elite!" only to find they had singletrack skills that wouldn't get you through a cycle proficiency test blurred my judgement.
I've done a few of these now, so I don't feel intimidated by faster riders coming up behind. I just let them past at the first good opportunity. I think some newer people feel intimidated and that saps all the fun out of it.
+1 for some sort of tags for the solo riders like Mayhem.
I think being overtaken on a climb by someone shouting "Elite!" only to find they had singletrack skills that wouldn't get you through a cycle proficiency test blurred my judgement.
Would be worth doing the event just for entertainment value of witnessing that. 😀
Is anyone going to own up to ever shouting 'Pro!' or even 'Elite!' at a bike race?
I didn't do Bikefest this year but raced last year so I know the deal. Perhaps the problem is that there's no agreement on HOW to go about an overtake. For example, some posters say they'll shout 'rider' when a little way off, others say this is useless. Some prefer for the rider being passed to call a side as they can see the track, others think it's the responsibility of the rider behind to choose where to pass.
Does anyone think it might be time for some basic instructions to be agreed by race organisers (so they're all the same from one event to the next) and put in the race info pack? For example, in cyclocross, the rule is that a lapped rider gives up the racing line. I know there's not supposed to be singletrack in CX but my point is at least there is a rule and everybody ought to know it.
Does anyone think it might be time for some basic instructions to be agreed by race organisers (so they're all the same from one event to the next)
I don't know that there can be one rule, because the course and riders are so varied. It's just as simple as "don't be a fanny". Let people know what your doing and don't assume you have a god-given right to barge past people in your quest for upper-mid table mediocrity.
Actually I saw one guy who had cracked it. He had 800mm bars on his (non-gnarr)hardtail, with those cane creak ergo bar ends on each end, giving ~850mm girth. Not a chance any wannabe elites were squeezing past him!
I didn't do it this year but have done BF and OF a few times before. Personally I've never felt bullied when being overtaken but obviously it does happen, at the end of the day some people are just idiots and it's made worse once the race face goes on. Added to that the course has to take some of the blame, most of the bits in the woods that you can overtake are actually the fastest sections so you're taking a big risk by trying it there. Agree with a previous poster they need to add some alternative lines or take the course out into the field more (although I'm guessing the land owners wouldn't want that).
On the flip-side I do wonder why more of the slower people don't move over more readily. Whenever I've 'raced' it it's more been a day out with mates but obviously you want to push yourself as well, however I wouldn't want to hold up a faster rider any longer than absolutely necessary. I'll happily pull over and stop if I know I'm on a section they won't be able to safely pass otherwise, it costs me like 5 seconds which is no big deal. OK maybe if you're super-slow and lots want to pass each lap it gets to be an unreasonable amount of hassle but then maybe you should get fitter before doing a race :p
The shouting 'left' and 'right' think should definitely be covered in the rider briefing (I thought it had been previous years?) as although most competitors would know about it you really need 100% of the people to be aware of it for it to work properly.
Haha, I noticed him as I was also rocking the "massive flat bars + 'ends on a spanky hardtail" combo, plus being 6'4" means there's a lot of me to get past.
But then I generally just asked folk behind if they wanted by (some did, some didn't) and those that did I went for "ok, I'll tell you when to pass", followed by something like "OK, I'll stay left PASS ON MY RIGHT NOW" and no-one seemed to complain.
However I appreciate if you're a soloist, or just plain knackered for whatever reason (it's an endurance event on a hot day!) your awareness of surroundings can be vague at times so this won't always happen.
I did have one cocked up overtake where I think both me and the guy I was passing (who'd told me when and where to pass) got a bit confused. But that just ended up with us both with a foot down and a bit of laughter, so no harm done.
Agree with a previous poster they need to add some alternative lines or take the course out into the field more (although I'm guessing the land owners wouldn't want that).
I think that's the issue - the trails have been built as is and you can't really produce more lines without going off the trail which the council almost certainly won't allow.
FWIW, again, I just didn't find it a problem. You'll always hear about the few muppets but everyone I can recall were great (either overtaking or being overtaken).
Someone tried an inappropriate and aggressive overtake of one of our team riders on Saturday during the 12 hr race. The overtaker smashed into a tree that was off the side of the trail & ended up in a heap on the ground. No serious harm done, but clearly Darwinism in action.
pedalhead - was he in an LVIs jersey- Ive got a 12 hour gap that Im trying to fill- slightly suspicious this may have been me!?
lol I suspect not but I'll ask when I see her later 🙂
