[Closed] Loan Bike Returned Damaged - Did It Need Saying Beforehand?

If one of your colleagues took your road bike on loan for a week,

Pass me the tin opener and the can that says worms.

Kettle is on, choccie digestives today.

Doesn't matter who borrows it, the phrase "bend it you mend it" always applies.

Big boys rules...... you bend it you mend it.... or at least pay to get it mended !

There's a bit of a paradox in your question because you talk about his moral oblgations whilst asking, effectively, whether you should have made a contract of legal obligations in advance.

I think it unlikely you are going to sue your colleague so what you are really looking for is in endorsement of your view that he has a moral obligation to put you right. Which he does, obviously. One cannot just borrow someone else's stuff, return it in a complete state and then wander off whistling to themselves as if nothing had happened. We don't live in a World where a conversation about his duty to look after your stuff needed to have been had in advance. It goes without saying.

You bend it, you mend it.
But, I wouldn't lend one of my bikes to a colleague, who from the sound of it can't ride.

If the part is broken - i.e. is now faulty, then it should be replaced.

Scrapes in paintwork etc - tough luck really - accidents happen and if you don't want wear and ear, don't loan it out.

Stuff gets broken or worn when it gets used. I would think most people I lend things too would offer to repair or replace but it's certainly not a requirement.

I wouldn't dream of returning anything in a worse state than when I took it. In fact, if I'd borrowed something and noticed it not quite working right or damaged, I'd point it out and probably try to get it repaired as a 'thank you' for the loan. It would go without needing to be said for me. I didn't think to mention it beforehand and I wondered if it was just me or is it the unspoken accepted norm that you return something in at least the same condition as it was taken?

Apologies for the unintentional paradox. As above, I'm astonished that this person would appear to be oblivious to what [b]I[/b] considered to be his unspoken obligation but I thought to ask. He seems to think that falling off is quite funny apparently although I'm getting this second and third hand so things may well be lost in translation.

I'm preparing myself for an uncomfortable conversation at the very least but this is definitely a lesson learned.

Yes, return it better than you borrowed it. That might just be a good clean, but to hand something back a bit more broken would not be acceptable to me (both as a lender and borrower)

If you have a set of rules that you expect someone to follow then you need to tell them.

What has the borrower [b]actually said [/b]to you on the subject?

I wouldn't lend something I couldn't afford to replace. But I would never return something damaged either.

I think you need to tell him frankly what you need to happen.

I presume this is your boss so you had no choice but to loan it. Stuff loaned to management always get returned broken, that's what they do. To be a manager you have to be a user of other people, that's what they are.

Stuff loaned to other engineers usually come back in a better state than they went out.

Sadly, in order to continue in an organisation, you have to lend stuff to managers.

Whoever this person is - he is an arsehole.

To be a manager you have to be a user of other people, that's what they are.

So, so wrong. A manager without the welfare, dignity as their primary concern may be like this - but many are not. People with strong, positive ethics and values together with a high degree of integrity don't behave in that way. I feel very strongly about this.

"You want [i]how much[/i] for the repair?! I could literally buy an entire bike for half that price in Halfords!!"

I never lend anyone anything I care that much about for this same reason. Over the years I've loaned people fishing gear, camping gear, tools, bikes and bike gear etc and discovered that not everyone has the same approach to things as myself. Nowadays if I'm introducing someone to a new hobby, helping out a mate at last minute etc then they can have a borrow of some of my old/worn stuff that I have got newer/better replacements for. That way if it gets damaged or lost I don't really care. If they want or need better then they can go to a hire place.

Depends if it's just cosmetic or if he has caused damage that affects the functionality of the shifter.

Scratches and scrapes a just wear and tear I would expect if I loaned a bike. A scratch to a shifter whilst being a bit unsightly shouldn't effect its usibility requiring it to be replaced. If it was one of my bikes I'd be happy if I got an apology and an offer to replace the bar tape (I hate scruffy tape)

I definitely subscribe to the "bend it, mend it" mentality and would expect anyone I lent to do the same without having to define the terms up front. However cosmetic scratches on a bike happen and it would be ridiculous to expect to get a frame pro-repainted for that or to replace properly functioning parts. It's why I don't let anyone borrow my roadie, because I'd be a bit gutted if someone else scraped it.

The use of the phrase 'standard borrowing terms apply' implies that if you break it, you mend it.

tlab - Member
Depends if it's just cosmetic or if he has caused damage that affects the functionality of the shifter.

Scratches and scrapes a just wear and tear I would expect if I loaned a bike. A scratch to a shifter whilst being a bit unsightly shouldn't effect its usibility requiring it to be replaced. If it was one of my bikes I'd be happy if I got an apology and an offer to replace the bar tape (I hate scruffy tape)

Pretty much this. I'm not very precious about my bikes generally I am happy if they are being enjoyed.

If I had something fancy fancy I'd just not loan it out.

@jamj1974 I so wish you were right. Maybe I'm in the wrong industry.

If someones asks to borrow "bend it mend it" is the rule.

If you offer a bike as a loan, then you wear the risk unless you clearly state the rule.

Bloke at work lent a stump jumper to a colleague for husband to use in a charity ride. He warned this is a VERY expensive bike please look after it. She took note and used both of the household cable locks to attach it to their city centre flat railings, I think it was gone in 20 minutes. She was absolutely distraught and went to the Internet to replace it. Imagine her shock when her idea of a very expensive bike, over £250 turned out to be somewhat south of the mark.

Unless they're bike mates or good friends I think it's important to establish some sort of context, most people still think bikes cost £200.

Maybe your colleague is an anarchist, though he seems to have embraced the capitalist concept of a job. Otherwise we live in a society with a well defined concept of property, where you the basic requirement of a loan is that you return what you are loaned. Not a slightly inferior version, but the same thing you are loaned. This is not a concept which anybody adult should need explaining - even if they were horribly spoilt, the realities of school and then adult life should have made it clear. So no, there was no requirement for you to spell out such a basic principle in advance.

You colleague is an arse (if reported intentions are true)

...though it is clear just from this thread that some people seem to think slightly different rules apply to bikes. Admttedly when banks loan you money they do make it very clear in advance that they want all of their money back.

So you haven't seen the bike yet op? Or talked about the damage? Maybe do that before you get the Stw lynch mob shouting. You never know, it might already be fixed.

Admttedly when banks loan you money they do make it very clear in advance that they want all of their money back.

and then some!

OP, sounds like you're worrying before getting the bike back and chatting with your colleague. Best to chill out until you meet up. When your colleague sees the tears streaming down your face at any damage they'll probably get the message. That is if they haven't already delayed bringing it back so as to get it fixed.

Hope it works out well.

No, I haven't got the bike back yet nor seen the (if any) damage but does that mean I'm not allowed to ask if it's widely accepted that it goes without saying in advance that an item borrowed is returned in as good if not better state than it was taken? Aftrr all, a few conversations have taken place through one meduim or another to suggest something untoward has occured.
Thank you for the constructive replies even if they've not fallen in line with my own opinions.

TBH sometimes it should be said, sometimes you know it's understood. Key thing imo is to be able to expect, when you lend something, that it'll be used appropriately. With bikes, sometimes that means crashing.

I loaned my bike to a friend for a race, she brought it back minus a spoke, a saddle, and with a ripped open tyre. She was mortified, I just thought, that's what it's for. If I was afraid to have my bikes used, I wouldn't lend them but I wouldn't even ride them myself.

to put different perspective -- I rented a holiday house from my boss for a week; our car had to be replaced about a fortnight beforehand so no means of carting bikes down. I asked Neil if I could borrow his old but dependable Enduro while on holiday - not a problem.

Rode it a couple of days, third day felt a bit odd in rear wheel, tried to true the buckle then realised a spoke had ripped out and rim eyelet wasn't in good shape. Gingerly put it back, fessed up on my return, offered to pay for new wheel / rebuild. He politely declined, said it needed a service, then got a shock when the repair bill arrived - new wheel, shocks serviced (not me on that one) and generally some TLC needed..

If someones asks to borrow "bend it mend it" is the rule.

If you offer a bike as a loan, then you wear the risk unless you clearly state the rule.

I've always followed these rules.

one meduim or another

You have to loan stuff to a work manager? GTFO!(apologies for language but it is as ridiculous and outrageous as that)

What else do they have rights over? Wife? Firstborn child?

Are you a medieval serf?

Do your best to take it up with them directly and tell them it's not on, whilst raising a workplace grievance (unions etc, over their heads if necessary)that your working environment appears to be one of fear and disrespect.

One friend needed to borrow a bike for a ride so I lent him my superlight and I borrowed my wife's p7 despite repeated comments he rode like a cack handed insert a four letter world and kept locking the rear shock out on descents que cracked rear triangle . despite comments he made no attempt to contribute to the bargin replacement cost ( thanks Stiff and Jungle). Lesson learnt next time round I lent him my P7 older more battered than my wife's this time . He managed another cavk handed ride and ripped a pedal out stripping the crank thread ,this time I thought sod subtlety and sent him a photo of the replacement cranks in box with the price clearly displayed which he ignored . Needless to say he neither gets to borrow stuff or ride with us anymore.

TBH both of those sound like things that were on the way, they just happened on his watch.

"Lesson learnt"

"Next time round"

Obviously not, or there wouldn't have been a second time!

How's it go; fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...

I baby my bikes so they don't get loaned. You bend it you buy it the rule since the age of 12, surely?

He took the bike on Wednesday. I hope to get it back tomorrow. Wear and tear? It's gone from immaculate to "damaged - you're not going to be happy" (I spoke to another cycling colleague who has seen it). That doesn't sound like wear and tear to me!
If I borrowed your car for a couple of days, brought it back with a big scratch down the side and the wing mirror smashed but you didn't say to me "You have to pay for any damage" before I'd taken it, you'd shrug off the damage and not expect me to pay? Really?
For the record because this is the kind of person I am, I'd have had it priced up at a body shop for the repair and let them know I'd be booking it in as soon as I'd spoken to the owner for a convenient date, paid the body shop in full and covered the cost of a hire car while it was in.
I'm feeling pretty fed up that my bike has been damaged. I'm hoping it's going to get fixed at the person who caused the damage's expense but it'll get repaired regardless of who pays. I'll not loan it out again and I am surprised that some people seem to think it [b]does[/b] need to be agreed beforehand.
Thanks again for the constructive comments regardless of the side of the fence they fell on.

Any reason you are unable to talk to him?

I have this rule. The rule is unwritten and unsaid. If people don't know the rule they dont get a loan of anything.

I don't loan anyone anything breakable or that I value, particularly not my bikes, actually there's only one good mate, who is a trained engineer, very mechanically sympathetic, and understands how things should be used that I'd loan to.

People think I'm selfish sometimes, they wouldn't say that when they get a £100 bill for parts.

Damage needs to be put right, wear and tear (scratches) is just unfortunate. I lent my race bike to a team mate and raced another. Crashes in races are very common (had one today!) so scratches to a shifter would be fair wear. Bar tape i'd expect to be replaced - it's not a big deal though.

But I'd expect someone to offer to make good, but I wouldn't be too precious.