Not really kept up with the endless wiffwaffery coming out of central govt what with working, family and general stats fatigue.
Cycling to work past Firle radio masts I came across a large number of mtbikers - prob around 10-12. Too many to count anyway. Luckily I managed to pass them on the road section as I really didn't feel like toiling up the broken road in thier sweaty wake, covid or not!
Are large groups a goer now? I genuinely don't know and only ask because its the first time i've seen more than three cyclists together since lockdown...
Maybe all 10-12 live in the same house then its fine.
Otherwise no.
If they were all 2 metres apart then fine as they could just all be cycling independently 2 metres away from each other...
Groups of up to six can meet for exercise provided they maintain social distancing.
Alternative government guidance appears to be that no-one gives a shit any more, do what you like. And stay alert, or something.
Thankfully the government rules and guidelines don't appear to apply to mountain bikers or road cyclists.
Well, from what I have seen thus far.
** steps off saop box and winds neck in **
Going by the government guidelines you can meet up to 5 others (so 6 in the group) in an outside area with a social distancing.
I am meeting up with others but riding in small groups (4 max so far) and generally trying to ride with the same 6 people if we do go out (bubble theory). Use own transport, have to be self supporting for tools and spares. Staying local (no car needed to 20min drive away). Normally ride out of the bizzy day time to avoid others
I personally don’t know if this is or isn’t breaking the rules as a lot of what’s been said isn’t clear but the way I look at it i’m still working and probably being put in worse situations than when riding.
10-12 was too many to count? ooft. 🙂
Thankfully the government rules and guidelines don’t appear to apply to mountain bikers or road cyclists.
Or professional football.
Cycling to work past Firle radio masts I came across a large number of mtbikers – prob around 10-12.
Probably Government special advisors on a team training day...
kerley
If they were all 2 metres apart then fine as they could just all be cycling independently 2 metres away from each other…
they may have suffered some visual impairment and can't focus past 2m and just have gone out to test their vision?
Or professional football
Did you not see the new rules? Only six people allowed in the box at a time (including the goalkeeper)
Be alert. Or something. 6. Unless in Wales. Or Scotland.
It’s all a carefully ambiguous scrum until the opportunistically-synchronised completely random date of July 4th US Independence Day/psychological-conditioning/herd-immunity experiment signals the Great Release Of Great British Freedoms/US-alignment pact and the PUBS WILL BE OPENED!!!!
At which point we trust once more that blablabla common sense shall prevail bla bla
No one cares anymore.
HTH.
Did you not see the new rules? Only six people allowed in the box at a time (including the goalkeeper)
It's pretty amazing what a bit of money can achieve. Hopefully the magic anti-viral coating developed for footballs will trickle down to less important uses like PPE for the NHS.
I saw several groups of 6 out on the road last weekend. Whilst they probably were technically 2m apart, given that riding in a group on the road is specifically for the purpose of being in someone else's dirty air, it's kind of missing the point.
But yeah, I think after castle-gate, nobody GaS.
The guidance is just a confusing mess now and i don't think anyone either understands it or is still following it (whatever it is). We seem to be falling into two camps... Those that have just decided to go back to pre Covid behaviour and those that are still very concerned so have made up their own minds about what they are comfortable with.
A large part of me thinks that this is really the unspoken plan and we are really just doing the herd immunity thing now, but the Gov won't openly state that because it would make them look like they are intentionally sacrificing people.
Cycling is fine, just no Snot-Rockets 🙂
The guidance is just a confusing mess now and i don’t think anyone either understands it or is still following it (whatever it is). We seem to be falling into two camps… Those that have just decided to go back to pre Covid behaviour and those that are still very concerned so have made up their own minds about what they are comfortable with.
A large part of me thinks that this is really the unspoken plan and we are really just doing the herd immunity thing now, but the Gov won’t openly state that because it would make them look like they are intentionally sacrificing people.
“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.” “Until they become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.”
A large part of me thinks that this is really the unspoken plan and we are really just doing the herd immunity thing now, but the Gov won’t openly state that because it would make them look like they are intentionally sacrificing people.
This. It's undeniably clear that the government wants people to be infected, but wants to be able to disclaim responsibility.
The rules for cycling are pretty straight forward.
Some people see them being ignored a lot, some don't. Some like to make points about other inconsistencies in the guidelines, some don't.
This is why we have this thread roughly once a week, always going down the same rabbit hole. Which is fine if we're from the same household or 2 metres apart.
Dominic Cummings
Did you not see the new rules? Only six people allowed in the box at a time (including the goalkeeper)
Ah that’s ok then as clearly they never get close anywhere else on the pitch.
if you can ride a MTB 2m (or closer) from someone else on a trail you are either a hero or crashing into them
even 5m behind someone is bloody scary as you are riding almost totally blind
riding up a fire road 2m is an easy distance to keep.
you stop and chat 2m apart. its not hard.
The rules for cycling are pretty straight forward.
The rules in general are clear. How they apply to cycling is less so, as common sense tells you that 2m in static air isn't the same as following 2m behind someone.
There is some king of hazily defined rule for organised sport of fifteen people or something.
Van halen +1
we are really just doing the herd immunity thing now
I keep hearing this, but I'm not sure what it really means. Either you attempt to completely suppress the virus, which means an extended, full-on lock down, with catastrophic side effects (not just economic, but health as well), or you relax lock down, knowing that this will allow the virus to spread, but at a level that the health service can cope with, and ideally limiting spread as much as possible to those least likely to see serious side effects.
Either way, people die, and it's an extremely difficult call given the poor data available, and the unpredictability of human behaviour.
I don't think it's very helpful to dismiss relaxing lockdown as "doing herd immunity". What's the alternative?
Ok well it seems to be still outside whatever rules are in place today. It is a fireroad climb but pretty steep at around 17% max gradient in parts and difficult to keep 2m apart (whatever that does) when in a large group.
I guess I still go by the 'if it looks a bit iffy it probably is best avoided' maxim and luckily as I can't stand group rides that won't be a problem.
I hope these large groups don't become a regular fixture of my commute as I don't feel comfortable passing them on a fireroad or even a narrow road.
I don’t think it’s very helpful to dismiss relaxing lockdown as “doing herd immunity”. What’s the alternative?
Thats a fair point, we can't stay locked up forever. I think the cynicism I have is that the relaxation its being managed so badly and is at times so contradictory that they almost want people to ignore it and go further than a more controlled relaxation. Decisions seem to now be driven more by the economy than public health. But thats something they don't want to openly state.
economy than public health
I think you'll find the two are very much linked. Covid-19 isn't the only thing out there...
I hope these large groups don’t become a regular fixture of my commute as I don’t feel comfortable passing them on a fireroad or even a narrow road.
You mean in terms of transfer of CV19? If so, if they're riding the opposite way from you, and there's 12 of them, you'll be in passing them for less than 2 or 3 seconds, do you think you're at risk from the virus passing from someone to you at over a metre away, for such a short period of time?.
I really can't see it tbh.
No, I mean overtking them! Some of us have to get to work and can't be dawdling around y'know!
Even at that, you'll be passing for a very short time, and tbh at commute o'clock you won't see many groups.
nober
You mean in terms of transfer of CV19? If so, if they’re riding the opposite way from you, and there’s 12 of them, you’ll be in passing them for less than 2 or 3 seconds, do you think you’re at risk from the virus passing from someone to you at over a metre away, for such a short period of time?.
I really can’t see it tbh.
Erm no.... what amazes me is you can't apply the same logic to riding 5m behind someone for an hour.
Winston
I hope these large groups don’t become a regular fixture of my commute as I don’t feel comfortable passing them on a fireroad or even a narrow road.
Yeah, I've given up worrying what others choose to do or not but it's frustrating when you have a group riding in front. I get this with wannabe roady's who pass me on the flat/downhill on my way to singletrack then stick in front of me. Short of a bigger chainring all I can do is stop/slow.
Erm no…. what amazes me is you can’t apply the same logic to riding 5m behind someone for an hour.
I was out with a couple of mates on tuesday night, 11 miles on the road, then 15 miles offroad home, It's not often you come within 5m of each other, gates and climbing fences was about it tbh.
I get this with wannabe roady’s who pass me on the flat/downhill on my way to singletrack then stick in front of me
Had a wheelsucker on a road climb on tuesday, road bike, full lycra, and he's hitching a ride off me on a FS 160mm with 2.6 Mary! haha!
The rules in general are clear.
They really aren't. The gradual relaxation is going to confuse people on a weekly basis. It was easy when it was stay at home but once you have rules around 6 people in a garden, single people electing a bubble, 2m possibly going to 1m and so on it really is not simple and clear any more.
Combined with the fact that, as others have said, people have generally lost interest in it so just doing what you feel is right "Stay Alert" is what people are tending to do now.
If I enjoyed riding with other people I would ride in group where everyone was 2m apart irrespective of how many in group.
What isn't clear to me is what the relative risks are, e.g.
Outdoors, 2m, static air
Outdoors, 1m, static air
Indoors, 2m
Indoors, 1m
Shaking hands with / without washing them
I have a strong feeling that the top 2 are extremely low risk compared to the others and that the difference between 1m, 2m, riding in a loose group, riding in a tight group are almost entirely negligible by comparison with actual physical contact, or being indoors.
FWIW, I'm not doing larger group rides at the moment mostly because I don't want to risk some bell-end in a car deciding to "show them a lesson", but from a purely health and transmission standpoint, I'd have no concerns whatsoever, especially as I know that those that I ride with have been pretty diligent at following the rules during the lockdown period and are therefore extremely unlikely to be asymptomatic carriers.
As noted above, you also need to take into account time of exposure. I actually think that riding in a tight group for several hours would be right up there in terms of risk. Riding on someone's wheel is deliberately putting yourself into the air that the rider in front is exhaling into.
As noted above, you also need to take into account time of exposure. I actually think that riding in a tight group for several hours would be right up there in terms of risk. Riding on someone’s wheel is deliberately putting yourself into the air that the rider in front is exhaling into.
It's a fair comment (and something we've discussed internally for weeks now!). I guess this is where the "contact tracing" element comes in - i.e. do you know the people you are riding with and do you know who *they* have been mixing with? Ultimately, how confident are you that they are virus-free?
~Nober
I was out with a couple of mates on tuesday night, 11 miles on the road, then 15 miles offroad home, It’s not often you come within 5m of each other, gates and climbing fences was about it tbh.
That's my point ... a measly 18 kph is 5 ms-1. I'm old (over 50) and unfit (even for my age) and I do a steady 30-35kph (8.3 ms-1) on the road on my MTB.
So 11 miles is 17.7 km @ 30 kph so call that 36 mins spent 0.6 seconds behind / in front?
The rules in general are clear. How they apply to cycling is less so, as common sense tells you that 2m in static air isn’t the same as following 2m behind someone.
Nope, I still think "the rules" are clear.
Whether you want to rely on them to stay safe while cycling is a different matter.
What isn’t clear to me is what the relative risks are, e.g.
Outdoors, 2m, static air
Outdoors, 1m, static air
Indoors, 2m
Indoors, 1m
Shaking hands with / without washing themI have a strong feeling that the top 2 are extremely low risk compared to the others and that the difference between 1m, 2m, riding in a loose group, riding in a tight group are almost entirely negligible by comparison with actual physical contact, or being indoors.
Excuse me putting it like this but...
What is your "strong feeling" on risk between standing 2m apart with a 2m drainpipe between your mouths for 30 mins outside vs inside?
What's your strong feeling between 2 people riding 1/4 sec apart in a velodrome vs a road?
I think you’ll find the two are very much linked. Covid-19 isn’t the only thing out there…
which is why the school reopening is going so well. oh......
What isn’t clear to me is what the relative risks are, e.g.
Outdoors, 2m, static air
Outdoors, 1m, static air
Indoors, 2m
Indoors, 1m
its been really well documented in most media sources that studies by those that know show that outdoors there is significantly less risk of transmission than indoors.
its places like offices/shops/public transport where you are most likely to get it. out in a forest the probability quite unlikley unless you are into group hugs/dogging.
