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The only way to get some progression is to stick one end of the shock through the lower half of the downtube, like on the 324 – that’ll get you about 10% progression.
or, give it a "pregnant" downtube, with the covenient added benefit of water bottle space? or am I misunderstanding?
Bike Geometry is a standard of measure used to market how a bike is supposed to handle. However, geometry plays a very small part in how the bike’s tires contact & react to the ground while in motion.
Well I'm glad they cleared this up. I thought geometry was an actual thing that mattered. Turns out it's just marketing BS.
Even Sick weren’t that stupid.
they may have made some money if they had been...
Well I’m glad they cleared this up. I thought geometry was an actual thing that mattered. Turns out it’s just marketing BS.
Good way to sucker you into buying a 90s/00s "slopestyle" frame they found in a cupboard.
Even Sick weren’t that stupid.
They were. £10k on indiegogo would have (not) got you a bike with loads of unspecified ltd edition/unique kit from their ‘industry contacts’.
Plus, this...
The suspension design is truly awful – and amazingly they’ve put a graph of how bad it is on their website. It’s regressive from 2 to over 2.7, so 35% regression. I presume they didn’t understand what the software was telling them and thought that because the graph was going up that it was progressive!
OK, I didn't delve deep enough into their website to find any statistics on the designs... It is obvious from looking at the design that it's going to be highly regressive, I didn't quite realise just how much by. 35% regression is staggering! I didn't get on with my Starling because it was mildly regressive, even with a DPX2 fitted chock full of volume spacers it still didn't work for me, felt a little harsher off the top that I wanted and didn't have enough mid stroke support or bottom out resistance for my taste. The Starlings are almost linear, only about 5% regression or something from memory...
Every full sus I've owned and liked has had in the region of 25-35% progression built into the linkage design, and has been complemented either by a high volume air shock or a coil shock.
Boasting about a "rising rate" shock leverage curve seems VERY odd... 🤷🏻♂️
And the stuff about the axle path over obstacles... Eh?!?! 🤷🏻♂️
I've just called the shiller out on the Vital thread... "Suspension expert" yet he doesn't realise how a 35% regressive ratio affects the bikes suspension performance?!?! 😧
“ or, give it a “pregnant” downtube, with the covenient added benefit of water bottle space? or am I misunderstanding?”
Well you could, but if you look at all bikes that are shaped like that, the shock connects somewhere else. Intuitively, the last place you want to connect a shock is on that kind of bent bit of tube, as you’ll get some extremes of tension vs compression from the outside vs the inside of the curve, when you bottom out hard.
I think it’s a nice looking bike, but the lack of info and the overflowing amount of marketing BS means that I’m not interested
Looks like they had a proper UK distributor for their hardtails until the middle of last year, but not now? Not that I was about to order one, my bikes develop enough mystery faults of their own when I leave them in the garage, I don't need mystery geometry too.
Looks like calf rub city for me
One of the founders of Mullet is the owner of Miles Wide (Sticky Pod, Fork Cork) so they are legit. The marketing is utter BS though.
https://www.mulletcycles.com/mullet-head-badge/
F whatever cr@p they say about geo or suspension - the head badges spiel has to be the best & worst & most obvious BS I’ve read since forever..
I love, it’s just brilliant unhinged weapons grade codswallop. I feel like bursting out into spontaneous applause - that kind of word salad needs recognition!
$15k for headbadge? Oh my days!
Brightened up my night no end.....
🤣🤣🤣
thisisnotaspoon
Full Member
did no one pick up that they’ve just ripped off a FOES Mixxer – a quick google shows it is indeed identicle..They look nothing alike?
My bad, should have been clearer, but as pointed out the blurb from website, though still think the look has been copied, badly..
Anybody with any relevant CAD/CAM software fancy measuring this from a few known datum points...? The pic isn't absolutely square on, but it's close enough to approximate with a few constants to measure from
What do we know?
-Shock is 230mm eye to eye.
-Rear rim is 38mm smaller diameter than front rim
-Cane Creek Helm mk2 fork is 568mm A2C @ 160mm travel apparently (doesn't go longer than 160mm)
-The TLE Speedgrip Apex sidewall Hans Dampfs were only available in 2.6 and 2.8" widths (my eyesight isn't good enough to see what widths are fitted, though 29 was only available in 2.6")
-Tacx Shiva 500ml bottle by the looks of it (please don't ask how I'm such a bottle geek!) which is 195mm tall base to tip according to my ruler.
-Front rotor looks like a 203mm
-Pretty certain it's a 51mm offset fork, judging by the forward offset of the crown.
And then we have the limited geometry they've decided to share...
GEOMETRY:
Peacemaker Size Chart
Small Medium Large
ETT 23.5” / 597mm 24.5” / 622mm 25.5” / 648mm
Reach 432mm 457mm 480mm
Head Tube 3.75” / 95mm 4.1” / 105mm 4.6” / 117mm
Seat Tube 15.2” / 386mm 15.7” / 400mm 16.7” / 425mm
StandOver 26.25”/ 666.75mm 27.25”/ 692.15mm 28.25” / 717.55m
Should be enough for someone with the means to do it to be able to come up with a decent approximation of the geometry fairly quickly... Deconstruct the "secret sauce" as it were...
sharkattack
Free MemberI just checked their Instagram. It’s very, very reminiscent of Sick. They honestly think they’re onto something that the rest of the industry is too stupid to figure out.
Sounds completely unlike Sick tbh, the only thing they'd put any thought into was the theft.
These guys, I dunno. Endless endless pointless fluff but they won't share basic geo, that's such an alarm bell. Doesn't seem the same as Sick, seems more like incredible stupidity than fraud. They even draw attention to it, "This has DBG Geometry". But that's NEED TO KNOW INFORMATION.
I do like how much it looks like a saracen raw 2, though
Mullet Bikes Inc seem so close to Sick! in look/feel/attitude/approach that it can't be a coincidence, so they either looked at the whole Sick! debacle and thought:
1) These guys really did a great job of launching a new bike brand, which is also my goal, I will emulate them
or
2) These guys really did a great job of ripping people off, which is also my goal, I will emulate them.
My theory is that Vitalmtb saw how much traffic the Sick! threads generated, and have created a copycat in order to bump visits to their site.
Was vaguely interested enough to spend 10 mins on this - approx scaled off the rim and rotor. Photo isn't really good for it but it's a guide.
Not a very interesting result. BB drop is minimal, that's about all that stood out.
All the copy and press reads a bit 'MTB for flat earthers'.
Looks quite normal, if a tad short in reach (but no idea what size we are looking at).
BB drop is about the width of a chain.
Static bb drop of big travel 650 bikes is about the same.
Although as you will have to run about 10% sag to avoid bottoming out, it will sit higher.
All the copy and press reads a bit ‘MTB for flat earthers’.
Haha that's exactly what I was thinking while reading the science bits of their website. It's shocking really.
I went to see if there was any new Instagram activity just to find they've deleted almost all of the comments overnight. They've only left a handful of positive ones.
They’ve only left a handful of positive ones.
Sounds familiar. Have they offered to fight anyone yet?
Looks like they've done a massive flounce
It was a scam - pure & simple.
Shark attack - looks fine to me when I check their instagram just now. Have you been blocked by them?
Ha! That's outrageous. All I did was say it looks very quiet in here and asked where all the comments had gone. How defensive can you get?
Oh well, at least I'm not the one who's bought a container full of frames from Alibaba and has no idea how to sell them.
Yup, looks like sharkattack has been hit with their little ban hammer
Static bb drop of big travel 650 bikes is about the same.
True, I hadn't realised it was as long travel as it is. Fork should have been a giveaway.
I think they've probably just been drinking their own Kool-Aid a bit much is all. After all we've seem the made-up joke acronym thing before...Apart from the mullet wheels, the bikes seem pretty much middle of the road generic, so looks to me like they've decided that offering customisable head-badges*, and being a bit "detail light" on the "secret" geometry to build interest.
Mleh.
* Yeah, does nothing for me either, but some folks will love it no doubt.
Just caught up with this. Proper old school in some ways - basic swingarm suspension on the fs, and (even more retro) raised chainstays on the ht. With a good dose of engineering bollocks thrown in (also old school, but still with us and not just from this lot). But, to be fair, its new engineering bollocks. They could have resurrected "instant center tracking" for the full retro feel.
I’m sorry…. WHAT?
That graphic gave me a proper giggle, presumably as long as the front axle is higher then any bump sends you into orbit (not like you can't do that anyway, I forget the technical term).
@chiefgrooveguru there seems to be some weight to the Mixxer claim if you rummage around the dumpster fire, it seems they previously sold them and started getting ideas well above their station before being told to do one if the comments are to be believed.
There is a mention of a 'business partnership gone bad' on their blurb. Why anyone would mention this is beyond me. For every person that thinks 'poor sod, good luck to him', there will be another one who thinks 'that's his story, who did he shaft?'
Have you seen their Insta post from today?! Genuinely does read like a Sick! back story!
....and it also looks like the pictures were taken on a potato.
….and it also looks like the pictures were taken on a potato.
*Laughs in bearded trampreneur*
Reading the comments section of that VitalMTB story it's a case of getting their revenge in first. Seems like their dealings with Foes went South pretty rapidly
I think you are all missing the point.
It tracks like a squirrel on a pine tree
Hell yeah! I'm in.
Have you seen their Insta post from today?! Genuinely does read like a Sick! back story!
Erm, no, they banned me! Is it any good?
I've seen the back and forth with Foes on Vital. Absolute cringefest.
Well, that’s escalating badly. Awful suspension design plus delusional behaviour, it really is Sick 2.0
Oh my, that comments section has kicked right off!!
[Foes enters the room...]
[img] 
[/img]
They honestly think they’re onto something that the rest of the industry is too stupid to figure out.
They are!! I have spent a lot more time reading that stuff despite having absolutely no intention of buying a product. I barely ever even click the links on new bike releases here on pinkbike or on mtbr they are dull as dishwater, same shit trotted out every month.
They figured out how to capture haters, critics, instamorons , and a lot of people like me who visited for the pure entertainment of it all. Some may even buy something
They definitely figured out how to do something ever other press release hankers for.
They figured out how to capture haters, critics, instamorons , and a lot of people like me who visited for the pure entertainment of it all. Some may even buy something
How did it work out the last time a company did that? For both company and customers?
All the copy and press reads a bit ‘MTB for flat earthers’.
It's very definitely "try hard counter culture"... Sick Bikes turned up a notch if you will!
I’ve seen the back and forth with Foes on Vital. Absolute cringefest
There's a response in there somewhere from user "Primoz" that simply says "There is no such thing as bad publicity?"
Sums up their approach perfectly to me!
Not a very interesting result. BB drop is minimal, that’s about all that stood out.
I think that's the thing... Their "secret sauce" is so run of the mill that they're scared to admit just how average it is... BB height and the 35% digressive shock leverage curve aside that is...
Let's not forget that their USP is the mixed wheel sizes, something that many other manufacturers are now offering form the factory, and something that many people have done off their own back on their existing frames anyway (sometimes modifying geometry to suit, sometimes not). It's widely acknowledged now that a 27.5" rear wheel paired with a 29er front will aid the bike to turn in a little quicker and to feel a bit more direct, without sacrificing any stability. However, this is only one very small characteristic amongst a frames design criteria, arguably the geometry and suspension performance are far more important than the wheel sizes yet their USP relies on them proving the opposite is true in order to sell their frames...
BB drop is about the width of a chain.
Static bb drop of big travel 650 bikes is about the same.Although as you will have to run about 10% sag to avoid bottoming out, it will sit higher.
Let's not try to counter marketing with science now... That would be wholly unfair! 😉
I went to see if there was any new Instagram activity just to find they’ve deleted almost all of the comments overnight. They’ve only left a handful of positive ones.
It's hard to argue with tried and trusted methods... Censor the unbelievers, repeat the anti-establisment underdog mantra ad infinitum, give the easily suggestible a platform to vocalise their support uninhibited. 🤷🏻♂️
How did it work out the last time a company did that? For both company and customers?
Some people made money, some people lost money... It definitely proved to be an unsustainable long term business model though if that was ever a prior concern.
So these guys have deleted all the comments?
Note: 30% Restocking Fee applied to returned Deposits
Win win!
Note: 30% Restocking Fee applied to returned Deposits
Win win!
Begs the question... Why bother creating a product in the first place? 🤷🏻♂️
Everyone just acting like the specialized big hit didn't exist, what the hell?