[Closed] And so it begins...? "mechanical doping" first?

xyeti, what are you on about? Nobody - literally nobody - is suggesting such tech doesn't exist.

Are you getting confused by the debunking of the Hesjedal conspiracy theory?

It is cheating to have the bike at an event. Here is an explanation:

http://inrng.com/2016/01/the-electric-shock/

"They took the seatpost out and there were wires," no shit sherlock, welcome to Di2.

When i see pictures of the frame cut up and the motor exposed then I'll believe it, until then it's just noise.

Of course there was that Gran Fondo guy......

NO, Not getting confused, Just commenting on posts demanding to see pictures from the UCI of the offending article "OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN"

As one poster rightly stated in reply, why would they? just to put the Nay Sayers minds at ease, it would then give the game away,

Her bike was apparently Seized, Some one tweeted that somethings been found, all of a sudden there are demands for proof, despite the fact that shes made up an excuse, her mates admitted fitting a motor and her Father has aquitted her, "Just as he did his son" Now i can't say he's actually taken Performance Enhancers BUT the powers that be banned him, despite not seeing his test results he still got banned, now i'm under the impresion he did it? bad reporting Yes or No? so i'm inclined to think that after some ones bike was seized then somethings not quite right.

Despite the fact that she's denied it, there was reported a bike identical to her own in the pits fitted with a motor, i am inclined to believe that and await a conclusion.

If she is banned then as far as i'm concerned she did it. If she isn't banned then NO wires were present and the bottom bracket did come off with ease and nothing was inside.

tech doesn't exist eh ?

sq225917

What is Di2?

Please explain?

AND, here we are again, The UCI have CONFIRMED This very same morning THAT A MOTOR WAS FOUND

Yet you still want to see an exploded diagram and a cut away frame, WTF is wrong with people?
WHY won't anyone believe anyone else?

Well for one thing the UCI have a lot of history about hiding evidence, taking bribes and sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting "blah-blah-blah-blah" whilst someone tries to explain anything to them.

You are new here, perhaps new to cycling even.

[quote=xyeti ]
AND, here we are again, The UCI have CONFIRMED This very same morning THAT A MOTOR WAS FOUND
Yet you still want to see an exploded diagram and a cut away frame, WTF is wrong with people?
WHY won't anyone believe anyone else?
I think there's some confusion in this thread. YES, it would appear that yesterdays incident relates to an electric motor. NO, Hesjedal was not using one in that race where he fell off.

Clearer?

No i'm not new to Cycling, i've been riding bikes over 30 years, compete regularly and know that Di2 isn't used successfully in CX and that she doesnt run Di2. Was she trialing the wires do you think? but couldnt get on with the shifting due to mud,

Iknow how unreliable the UCI are, and the fact that blood samples get misplaced, lost or even destroyed. i know they dont like evidence BUT i'm now to disregard their statement re finding a motor.

Scotroutes, were you the Commissar? did you scrutineer Hesjedals bike. In that case yes it's clear. I believe you.

Happy Now?

When will you over rule the UCI and publish your own findings on this new case.

No i'm not new to Cycling, i've been riding bikes over 30 years, compete regularly and know that Di2 isn't used successfully in CX and that she doesnt run Di2. Was she trialing the wires do you thin? but couldnt get on with the shifting due to mud,

Are you on crack? The last two rounds of the World Cup were won by a bloke on di2.

Was SHE Running D12, YES or NO?

Shouty...

No idea, although it does look like she's blatantly cheating.

The point here is that you said di2 doesn't work for cross. Which it clearly does

In fact according to cxmagazine, 73% of podiums were achieved using di2 during the 2014/2015 season across senior men and women. So I'd say fairly successful

Was SHE Running D12, YES or NO?

This says no.

http://inrng.com/2016/01/the-electric-shock/
/p>

It's a bit weird / upsetting that it looks as though the technology exists, and people are (apparently) using it, yet the UCI seem to struggle to find cheats using it in races. I don't really know how / whether they examine bikes after races, but it seems with all this talk over the last few months that they really [i]should[/i] do so to look for motors which can't be that hard to detect.

Feeling kind of ashamed sitting here at home in Belgium....

It is 100% confirmed that there was a bike in her pitbox equipped with an electric motor driving through the crank.

Femke & family are not disputing this. Their only (very weak) defence is that story about it being one of her old bikes that is now the property of one of her training friends & that it was mixed up by accident.
(I don't think anyone is believing this)

Belgian coach is sooooo angry about the whole case.
It's gutting because Belgium have had a great champs of course.

Believe me; this girl (regardless of intent or knowledge) is finished here!

The boss from the Belgian cycle organisation (wielerbond) confirmed that UCI has advised that in this instance 'team' does not constitute Belgium but her direct entourage.

More rumour based is that they have been monitoring her since Koppenberg cross in November where she put in some very surprising spurts in the women's elite race.

Flange, of course it does work, but not Clearly, Not when you only have 1 bike to complete a race on, when you have 6 bikes and are a world class rider then it works, it's got to win at that level otherwise we wouldnt buy it,

And NO shes not running it, and Yes she is blatantly cheating

Oh and NO i'm not on Crack, i cant afford it,

[quote=xyeti ]Was SHE Running D12, YES or NO?

This aint Di2

(edited - it seems embedding to a specific time in a video doesn't work properly, you'll have to click on the link to see Van den Driessche departing the race on her mechanical geared bike - oh and whilst you're at it watch the rest of the vid to see the new British World Champion)

[quote=scotroutes ]I think there's some confusion in this thread. YES, it would appear that yesterdays incident relates to an electric motor. NO, Hesjedal was not using one in that race where he fell off.
Clearer?

Phew - can we leave the Hesjedal conspiracy theories now, it would make the thread simpler

I'm going to leave you to it - I'm not sure how having one bike or ten makes any difference to whether it works or not. Surely those at the top of their game whose livelihoods depend on it would only use stuff that works. In fact some (me included) would say it works better because there are no cables to choke up with mud. But different strokes for different folks and all that...

See, that's where I'm obviously different, I was of the opinion they used what they were paid to run, that's how i thought it trickled down to the open market, they are using their sponsors kit and equipment not just what they fancy running,

I've had problems with clag, admittedly it was a while ago now but a decent set up on cables that are thoughtfully routed works just as well, I always thought that a new bike after a few laps that was clean would communicate better and not clog up with crud,

ref the mechanical vs drug doping thing, I've heard a few commentators saying that mechanical doping crosses a rubicon where you are admitting/accepting that something else is driving the bike and therefore doing the winning. Drug-doped riders could rationalise that it was still them putting in the performance, albeit and enhanced them, but still their muscles, sweat and effort.

There's currently a lot of talk about her Koppenberg performance with people tweeting links to the vid on youtube, on the first climb she very quickly puts 30m or more into the leading Elite women (Cant, Wyman, Harris et al) who are commenting that it was noteworthy at the time. And she won the Europeans earlier this year.

Marge, can you confirm how long she has been with her current team and on the same bike? I saw a comment that she was riding different bikes last season which would sink the "modified sold old bike" defence?

They're not paid to use Di2. They can chose mechanical or Di2. Rider's choice. Advantage that amateur racers (with only one bike racing in Scotland where arguably conditions are pretty filthy) have told me is that Di2 is a big advantage in CX as you can stay on the bike more, as the shift quality remains regardless of conditions.

Marge, can you confirm how long she has been with her current team and on the same bike? I saw a comment that she was riding different bikes last season which would sink the "modified sold old bike" defence?

http://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20141226_01448109 there is a late 2014 article that sports a quite similar bike. Team name as per interwebs was different but the old bike holds sofar. I want the friend do do a polygraph though

At a press conference today UCI (Union Cycliste Internationale) president, Brian Cookson, confirmed the bike the 19-year-old Belgian was riding, when she pulled out of the race with mechanical problems, was later found to contain a concealed motor. - See more at: http://road.cc/content/news/177183-mechanical-doping-cyclocross-worlds-confirmed#sthash.phCkYSST.dpuf

N.B. according to that report, she was riding the bike with the motor, it's not a bike that was sitting in the pits.

So we're trying to prove that the spinning bike with no credible evidence of cheating had a motor in it, and the bike that has been found with a motor in it didn't really have a motor in it; am I up to speed?

😆

am I up to speed?

just watched a vid of her going up the koppenberg - as we say in Belgium, wow ... just, wow

(from about 3 min)

At a press conference today UCI (Union Cycliste Internationale) president, Brian Cookson, confirmed the bike the 19-year-old Belgian was riding, when she pulled out of the race with mechanical problems, was later found to contain a concealed motor. - See more at: http://road.cc/content/news/177183-mechanical-doping-cyclocross-worlds-confirmed#sthash.phCkYSST.dpuf
N.B. according to that report, she was riding the bike with the motor, it's not a bike that was sitting in the pits.

So we're trying to prove that the spinning bike with no credible evidence of cheating had a motor in it, and the bike that has been found with a motor in it didn't really have a motor in it; am I up to speed?

According to most reports it was a bike in the pits. If you read many of the original dutch tekst and then the english or French translation there are quite some mis translations either from incompetence(google translate) or to spice things up.

Its seems quite sure the bike was found in the pits early on and so not(yet) ridden on. Can obviously have been used earlier on her koppenberg climb looks very dodgy. I would love to see her and the alleged friend take a polygraph. Her dad has a dodgy head but then that's not punishable by law 😉

check the sequence on that koppenberg vid around 12' what do you think?

Somebody's actually been caught red handed and still the tinfoil hat brigade aren't happy.

🙄

It'll be interesting to see if she can make any kind of comeback (if she even tries) from this, or if she'll be shunned to a greater degree than dopers.

Seems like the UCI have a simple, quick way to check for motors now, so hopefully this isn't widespread like many are trying to make out to be. Just a one off I hope.

hofnar, thanks for the info, I'm currently on a work computer with all sorts of google and content limitations.

According to most reports it was a bike in the pits

agree, but which according to the always-reliable INRNG is irrelevant, from

http://inrng.com/2016/01/the-electric-shock/
the UCI rules are quoted as saying

"the presence, within or on the margins of a cycling competition"

so would include a bike in race pits or on top of team car even if not raced in anger.

and another 😀 for

So we're trying to prove that the spinning bike with no credible evidence of cheating had a motor in it, and the bike that has been found with a motor in it didn't really have a motor in it; am I up to speed?

Edit:

It'll be interesting to see if she can make any kind of comeback (if she even tries) from this, or if she'll be shunned to a greater degree than dopers.

and surely even less chance she did this without the complicity or involvement of her team* than pharma doping - even if you jet off to Spain on your own to have a motor fitted by a gynacologist-turned-electrical engineer the mechanics are going to find it the next time they work on the bike.

*whether team is her sponsored organised race team, or her close family/entourage.

[b]And thanks for not spoiling the Elite Mens CX result in this thread, I'm avoiding 99% of social media so I can catch the highlights. [/b]

Well TF1 HD announced it was the bike she was racing on that had the motor in it. In an interview the girl gave me the impression she was rattling out pre-agreed excuses which were frankly laughable with a few tears - the body language said "liar".

As for Cancellara and the "spinning back wheel that wasn't" they were both presented as "suspicious". The videos of Cancellara's hand movements were highlighted in a vid. A full-size vid (big HD TV on a fibre connection) of the "spinning wheel incident" confirmed to my satisfaction that the rear wheel had stopped before the bike moved off again - it was firmly in contact with the ground as the bike slid to a halt.

i can get the lure of 250 watts on tap for 30 mins and being very useful in a cyclocross race where you can swap bikes, but the noise of it all !! 😯 Wouldn't you notice someones bike sounding like a power drill 😕

check the sequence on that koppenberg vid around 12' what do you think?

Lost a gear, but lost almost no momentum, and regained speed very easily.....

I'm not so sure it would sound like a drill as its not spinning at such RPM figures to create that Vvvvrrrrmm Vvvvrmmm sound that drils make,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Ahem.....

My chainline has a kind of sound to it especially when covered in mud, The womens race yesterday was quite muddy.
But who knows? maybe some riders have flagged up a noise?

They knew which bike to go for, Klunk. I suspect someone did hear it and/or comment on her superhuman performance.

Helen Wyman has done a power output breakdown of the course: - [url= http://www.helenwyman.com/2016/01/preview-of-2016-cyclocross-worlds-course/ ]http://www.helenwyman.com/2016/01/preview-of-2016-cyclocross-worlds-course/[/url]

Shows that a few watts extra here or there would come in handy. There's even a lap with data overlay. Apart from feeling slightly sick at the thought of how hard they ride and the fact that one woman would be riding on the limit to get that profile and another would have a helping motor, the data from CX racing is pretty awesome.

[img] [/img]

Rumour has it, that it was the extension lead trailing across from the charging post that gave it away. Initially the UCI, thought it was a new Nissan Leaf

i can get the lure of 250 watts on tap for 30 mins and being very useful in a cyclocross race where you can swap bikes, but the noise of it all !! Wouldn't you notice someones bike sounding like a power drill

From the gearing on that Vivax I'd assume the motors are being used at high torque, low rpm so wouldn't get that high rev whirring, and at a Belgian CX race you can't hear much over the crowds.

Wyman releasing her power data of that course (courtesy of new sponsor Stages) now seems somewhat prescient!

i guess so the czech rider didn't hear the bell after all 🙂 but even so when under load electric motors can really "whine" even though they are not at high revs.

the data from CX racing is pretty awesome.

thanks for posting, always interesting to read that sort of stuff.

all i know looking at the data is cyclo cross racing is not for me, I like to ease into my riding 😀

That koppenburg vid is pretty damning in itself! Her body language doesn't show much effort!

womens moto-e-cross it's the future. vroom vroom.

Well it takes heat off doping with drugs for a while 😆