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So got back into road riding this year and will probably continue for the next few years. My road bike is a 2008 Scott CR1 Pro with Zipp 404 wheels which whilst very nice is probably showing its age a bit.
Not havig paid any notice to bikes over the last 12 years I've started looking at getting a new road bike and just assumed that as any decent mid range (£5k ish) carbon road bike with a half decent group set would be near the UCI limit of 6.8kg. However, I get the impression this isn't the case - but hard to work it out as most manufactueres still don't list weights on £5k bikes (which seems a bit odd).
So if I just bought an off the shelf mid range road race bike from Scott, Giant, Spesh etc, how close to 6.8kg would I get?
Every time they weigh a tour bike on GCN they seem to all be exactly at 6.8 with bottle cages, pedals etc, so I assume it's quite doable.
You can get quite well below that weight, for quite well below that price, especially from the German direct brands.
-
Most road bike have to be built to take an overweight mamil smashing it into everything for a few years
Most tour bikes are built to take an annorexic speed demon for 8-12 months
Then there's things like the fashion for massive tires and the like....
Which German manufacturers are those Tom ? Canyon ultimate CF slx 9.0 is 4700 book price before their sales. And is not even 6.8 never mind quite a bit below it
So
mid range
is
(£5k ish)
is it?
Blimey.
A lot of manufacturers are using disc brakes as an excuse to punt out heavier bikes for more money as well.
Reviewers now don't seem to think a 9.5kg bike for north of £2k is worthy of comment..
I think Rose will easily get you under 6.8kg, for under £5k.
https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/rose-x-lite-six-dura-ace-2675772?product_shape=UD-Carbon%2FPiano-Black
I can vouch for the quality of Rose bikes as well, every time I work on my £1300 Xeon Team I discover another little way that Rose have resisted cutting corners where you would expect most manufacturers to save cost e.g. stock cables were polymer coated Shimano, stock inner tubes were Schwalbe ultra-light, chain and cassette were both Ultegra etc.
It's doable, but you might have to compromise (although arguably having to spend £5k is a compromise!).
My road bike was almost down to 6.8kg (If i cheated and weighed it without pedals, cages etc). And cost <£1k. But it had rim brakes and wasn't aero. The forks did still have an aluminium steerer so if I'd bother to swap those it would be about 6.8kg.
Spreadsheets and lists are your friend, there's probably ~50 parts on a bike, find a bit 20g lighter than normal, repeat 50x times and you've saved a kilo (and have to answer to the internet who will say "your bike has a similar spec to mine, there's no way it weighs .....kg"). It also lets you work out where the budget should go, no point spending £3k on the lightest frame and forks, if it means that you skip the £200 titanium chain which despite being an eye watering cost is still a better £/gram saving.
Mine wasn't anything special,
CAAD4 frame
DA7800 grouptset + FSA carbon chainset
Fouriers forged caliper brakes (NOT the CNC ones)
Stans Alpha rims, powerway hubs, KCNC skewers (1250g for <£300)
23c Ultremo tyres and supersonic tubes
Canyon carbon seatpost
Ritchey WCS alloy bar and stem
Selle Italia SLR gel flow carbon saddle.
Nothing particularly great there, most of the lightness was in the wheels and brakes.
So mid range is (£5k ish) is it?
Pretty much, most decent road bike ranges start aroun £1k and end around £10-12k for their most blingy model...
Most road bike have to be built to take an overweight mamil smashing it into everything for a few years
Most tour bikes are built to take an annorexic speed demon for 8-12 months
I assumed that all Grand Tour bikes have to be production road bikes available to the public, so if I buy a Scott Addict RC frame, its identical to the frames used in the TdF etc.
Well a lot of road bike RRPs are a bit daft, and there's a big step from mid-range carbon frames to top-end hi-mod frames - in terms of complete bikes. It's hard to see where the money goes a lot of the time TBH.
And discs have muddied the waters by adding a lump of weight at any given price point.
I just sold my "best" rim brake road bike, it was the CR1 SL (so top-end carbon) with 1,500g wheels, carbon bar and Ultegra - and it weighed 7.1kg without pedals.
The replacement is a hi-mod disc frame with Ultegra and the same weight wheels. It weighs about 750g more, IIRC.
In summary, I think you need a real top-end groupset and lighter wheels to get down to 6.8kg - and some brands will want to charge you £8k for the privilege. But some will be less pricey, or you can mix-and-match it yourself more cheaply I'm sure.
Do you really think you need a 6.8kg bike anyway? My CR1 felt feathery light to be at just over 7kg.
I assumed that all Grand Tour bikes have to be production road bikes available to the public
For 5k ?
More so in days gone by some of the grand tour bikes were not even the bikes they were labeled up as ...
My 3k aero disk roadbike is 8.3kg in the scales.
Could know a kilo or so off it without difficulty but is need a blank cheque book.
For 5k ?
The frames don't change between the £5k and £10 bikes...
Do you really think you need a 6.8kg bike anyway? My CR1 felt feathery light to be at just over 7kg.
I think my CR1 is 8.8kg, but the 404s are the old Alu rims ones, so not that light.
Do I really need a 6.8kg bike, of course not; do I really want one though....
That’s part of the whole point of the weight limit, so cost wasn’t a barrier to having competitive kit, but as frames have got aero’er, tyres have got widerer and brakes have got diskier, bikes have got pricier for a given weight.
Still plenty possible to buy/build a new 6.8kg bike for 3.5-4K though I reckon, with a bit of thought.
Originally I was thinking Scott Addict, but all the 2020 build has sold out (in 56cm), so then I was looking at Orbea, and their £5.2k Orbea Orca OMX comes in at 7.9kg, which seems a bit fat for a supposedly light carbon frame, decent carbon wheels and a lot of carbon finishing kit...
Rose does look very good value, but I like the clean look of all cables completely concealed in the stem etc...
Are we still talking addict RC.
The top end 10k model has an hmx SL frame and you only get the SL on the 10 k model.
The rest are just HMX
Now in history that meant that the top models in Scott were simply weighed and the lightest were kept for the top end bikes.....but I imagine now a days it's probably a different lay up of fibres
Do I really need a 6.8kg bike, of course not; do I really want one though….
I meant more whether it'd suit you. We don't know how heavy you are or whether you ride hills or more flat terrain.
mid range (£5k ish)
😆 earth calling footflaps!
I'd have thought that realistically a mid-range road bike is maybe £2.5-3K (which is what my Di2, Ultegra disc Boardman SLR Endurance 9.4 cost) however looking at something like the Specialized range, where a Roubaix Comp with Ultegra Di2 with disks is £4.4K, then you could make a case for mid-range being £4-5K.
Mainly a matter of perspective though!
mid range (£5k ish)
Footflaps must be one of these upper-middle class folk who have been getting richer during lockdown as he's had no outlet for his income. Let him spend away with abandon, it's selfless actions like this that are going to get our economy back on track. Good on you footflaps, keep spending- just make sure it's a British bike!
I doubt you'll hit 6.8 kg with discs and hidden cables for 5K.
Hidden cables lock you into the OEM stem etc so you have no scope for fitting anything lighter.
The same goes for non round seat posts.
Discs, deep wheels and fat tyres also add weight.
I bet you could do it if you started with something like a 2019 super six high mod and added weight weenie parts yourself.
which is what my Di2, Ultegra disc Boardman SLR Endurance 9.4 cost
Hijack - How do you like it? My new bike is the mechanical Ultregra version, which I've put some carbon wheels and different finishing kit on.
The frames don’t change between the £5k and £10 bikes…
In the Specialized range, S-Works frames come in on bikes at around £9500.
I assumed that all Grand Tour bikes have to be production road bikes available to the public, so if I buy a Scott Addict RC frame, its identical to the frames used in the TdF etc.
I just had a look at the website and the top of the range Scott Addict RC at over £10k has a "Addict RC Disc HMX SL Carbon Frame" as opposed to those lower in the range which have "Addict RC Disc HMX Carbon Frame". So presumably not the same frame.
Footflaps must be one of these upper-middle class folk who have been getting richer during lockdown as he’s had no outlet for his income. Let him spend away with abandon, it’s selfless actions like this that are going to get our economy back on track. Good on you footflaps, keep spending- just make sure it’s a British bike!
Starting with Scott Addict, current equiv to my current bike, and a quick look on Tredz..
Top end is £10,799.00
Cheapest is £1,699.00
Take the mean and you get £6249
So I was actually a bit low at £5k....
Hijack – How do you like it? My new bike is the mechanical Ultregra version, which I’ve put some carbon wheels and different finishing kit on.
Mine is still standard - I don't think I've even changed the tyres on it. Given the specification it's pretty good value and reasonably light. I really like the Di2 and the disc brakes are amazing compared to even decent quality rim brakes.
I hadn't ridden it since moving back up to Edinburgh from London (where I was in a road club) about 2-years but took it out for a spin on Saturday. Lovely bike to ride although one thing that I did notice when I was riding regularly with the club in London was that I still used my ancient Roubaix more than I did the SLR Endurance. Partly that was preferring to use the older bike when the weather was crap, but possibly also that (despite being a comfort bike) I found the SLR riding position a bit racier than the Roubaix. Not that I found it uncomfortable or anything, but I might have a look at changing the stem to raise the bars slightly.
To stand a chance, I'd be looking at himod/HMX, ~1300g wired on with 200g tyres/50g inner tubes, DA or Red and calipers rather than heavier discs. It doesn't seem to matter too much if you go for alloy finishing kit or carbon, there's not much in it weight wise except the saddle which might be best in Ti or carbon.
I've a CR1 SL with DA and 1500g mid sections and all the above. It's 7.2kg with pedals, cages and computer mount. I could easily lose 0.5kg if I went sprints and tubs but I'm not doing that for my sort of farting about riding.
My lad's bike is a Ridley Fenix SL, R8000 Ultegra apart from the crankset which is a Rotor Aldhu (so he could have a shorter length and easier to swap chainrings for racing). Combined with a relatively inexpensive, used set of Vision TC24 carbon tubs, it's easily under 6.8kg with no other fancy weight saving measures (except for some nice bars which I picked up cheap from a friend). Total cost was around £2k, although the bike itself was bought in a clearance sale and the wheels were used, so it was a long, long way from RRP!
Helps that it's an XS-sized frame too, of course 🙂
Footflaps must be one of these upper-middle class folk who have been getting richer during lockdown as he’s had no outlet for his income.
That's a bit "pot calling the kettle black" on a mountain bike forum.
I doubt you’ll hit 6.8 kg with discs and hidden cables for 5K.
That's sort of what I'm finding, my wish list is...
Disc
Hidden cables
50mm carbon rims
semi aero profile frame
electric groupset
Discs + deep-section wheels + aero frame isn't a good combination for super lightweight bikes. Even pro aero bikes struggle to get down to the UCI weight limit like the climber's bikes do.
That's not to say you can't do it, but the amount of money you'll need to pour in will substantially increase...
Virtually no chance of getting to that sort of weight with those requirements and budget.
The Focus Izalco Max is one of the lighter disc braked bikes around but still 800g heavier than the weight limit in the build that would be around budget.
https://www.focus-bikes.com/gb_en/95691-izalco-max-disc-9-7
Starting with Scott Addict, current equiv to my current bike, and a quick look on Tredz..
Top end is £10,799.00
Cheapest is £1,699.00Take the mean and you get £6249
So I was actually a bit low at £5k….
Take that logic to its conclusion.......cheapest car is what £8K, most expensive is say £2 million. Therefore a 'mid range' car by your logic is £1,004,000.
I suspect the mean or the median price of 'proper' bikes sold (as opposed to bikes in a manufacturers range) is circa £2K.
Whatever - if £5K is your budget, its your budget. Lucky boy.
I don't think weight would influence me a great deal however. And if it did I guess I'd be looking to compromise on aeroness, returning to rim brakes, and tyre/rim choice. I'm guessing di2 weighs more than mechanical but I may be wrong on that.
Yep. Zero chance at £5k unless a second hand bitsa.
I’m guessing di2 weighs more than mechanical but I may be wrong on that.
Di2 is (very) slightly lighter, around 5g iirc
Marginal gains an that...
My canyon ultimate sl (Not the top of the the range version of the frame) weighed 7.2 kg including pedals, and cost me 2k in 2015. It was of course rim brakes.
My giant tcr advanced pro 0 with disks, deep carbon wheels, di2 etc costs over twice that and weighs closer to 8kg. Very few disk braked bikes come in at 6.8 kg, regardless of price. Remember pro bikes use tubs. I reckon you could count on 1 hand the number of disk braked bikes from the top manufacturers that come under 6.8kg once you have fitted pedals.
Tbh loads of pros bikes weigh over 7kg, and thats with tubs and top of the range kit.
Top end is £10,799.00
Cheapest is £1,699.00Take the mean and you get £6249
To be pedantic thats the mean as you have only used the lowest and highest in the range. To get the true mean you'd need to look at all the models in the range, and I can guarantee if you did the mean would be far far less than 5k!
Biggest shock is da di2 disk weighs only 20 grams more than da di2 rim....
There is 145g difference between di2 and mechanical d-a disk
And nearly 250 going from ultegra mechanical to d-a
And at those numbers I'm disk all day long. Rim brakes are crap(even though mines were actually good - because nice pads and alloy rims) and even worse when you start with things like carbon rims in the rain - my TT bike with expensive Mavic brakes and carbon rim/disk wheel with the fancy carbon blocks -stoppings still a suggestion.
I hit 82kph off glenshee yesterday and a car reversed out of a "not parking space" into the road....... By God does my bike disk brake road bike stop and quickly.
Also, the top end bikes tend to be the ones that get big reductions at the end of year, though the bargains may have disappeared now. 7-8k a couple of years ago might still have the features required, nearer to budget.
And now he throws in 50mm rims!
I think you'd need to get a bit creative and very lucky with deal-finding to complete your wishlist.
That CR1 frame is still light amongst many of today's bikes, you could easily get it below 6.8kg
Actually I could probably save a kilo if I just abandoned having a bike that fits and sheeply cut my steerer down because rules say I should.
I found the SLR riding position a bit racier than the Roubaix. Not that I found it uncomfortable or anything, but I might have a look at changing the stem to raise the bars slightly.
'tis quite racey for an "endurance" bike, but mine is longer than the CR1 it replaced so it feels more relaxed. The Roubaix is a move in the other direction though I guess.
Reviews stated it was a relatively harsh frame, but I've only found that to be the case with the tyres at high pressure. It seems very comfy with 28mm tubeless tyres at 80psi or a bit lower.
(stealth nudge) - I've an S-works disc SL6 in the classifieds at the minute for £4K
It's their top of the range frameset with their seatpost, headset & ceramic BB, and even with a set of disc wheels at 1420g & a DA build, I think the weight is coming in around 7.5kg
maybe knock 100 or 200g off by changing the chainset
I think you’d need to get a bit creative and very lucky with deal-finding to complete your wishlist.
I'll be looking at pre-ordering 2021 build. Bikes are selling like hot cakes at the moment, unless you're XS or XXL, there's not a lot in stock anywhere.
there’s not a lot in stock anywhere
You ain't kidding. I've heard some incredible numbers from mates still in the trade/ex bosses.....for q1/q2 2020.
They can't get/build bikes fast enough
Also, the top end bikes tend to be the ones that get big reductions at the end of year, though the bargains may have disappeared now. 7-8k a couple of years ago might still have the features required, nearer to budget.
Just wait until next year. I reckon there will be more than a few "regretted coronavirus purchases" coming onto the market 🙂
Top end is £10,799.00
The only reason £10k bikes exist is to make spending £5k on a bike seem reasonable.