Having owned both if you want my twopenneth I would say that the Pig is better on steep downs, they are about the same on climbs but the 456 is better on undulating/countouring terrain. I have no idea why this is but it's just the feeling that riding them back to back left me with. Maybe somehow who understands frame geometry can explain. They were both 18" frames with 140mm forks.In summary it felt like the Pig only really came alive when you threw it (and yourself) down a steep hill. And I'm far too much of a mincer to do that very often.
I think this is a very fair summing up.
Not ridden a Blue Pig, but had a 456 and now have a mmmbop.
The mmmbop climbs way better than the 456, I never touch the U-turn anymore, I just leave the Pikes at 140mm all the time. The 456 was wheelytastic on steep climbs.
The mmmbop is great on steep downs too as you'd expect. For the riding I do it's fantastic and I can't see me changing it for a while. Can't stand the name though.
is the 456 seat angle the same?
is the 456 seat angle the same?
No.
I find the pig also climbs better as I seem to be position much more over the cranks rather than behind them
So they're different then,as someone stated earlier they're pretty much same.
differnet head angle and seat angle,for me its this what makes this frame.no chopper feeling to the Pig like all the other 140mm + hardtails, as your over the front more which helps on super steep climbs,
billyboy, you say you need a smaller size with a Ragley. I assumed I would need medium/18" like my other bikes. At 5'10" could I get away with a 16"?
Not 'get away'. I'd advise it. 'Northwind' wouldn't, though he has long legs.
Cheers for that, I think I am finslly seeing the light!
the 456 is better on undulating/countouring terrain. I have no idea why this is but it's just the feeling that riding them back to back left me with. Maybe somehow who understands frame geometry can explain.
I run a Pig with 150mm Sektors on it, I'd say it's ace going down and ace going up, but distinctly surly and indifferent on meandering, flattish terrain. Some of that's weight - it's not a light bike - but I wonder if the stability from the slack head angle which is really reassuring on steep descents just makes it feel a bit unresponsive on the flat, the opposite to a steep and twitchy race set-up?
If I lived somewhere flat I'd:
1. Move.
2. Not buy a Blue Pig/Mmmm Bop/Ragley Ti for my local riding.
But that's just my opinion. Oh, and if it helps anyone, I'm five nine and a half or so and have a 16" Blue Pig, wouldn't want to go any bigger.
I havent ridden a 456 for ages and only briefly then anyway, but I'd say it's more of an all-rounder, but less bolted-on stable on descents. I've ridden six or seven hour trail rides in the Peak on the Pig, with ice tyres too, and it's fine for that, though given that the frame weighs, what, 5.5lb, it doesn't build light and works best with tough-ish bits on anyway.
As far as the practical UK benefits of the Ragley frames go, I dunno, maybe the unusual geometry has tended to overshadow the rest of the package, but I do really like the cable and hose guides, the finish seems pretty good and I haven't even thought about chain suck on it. Nice to be able to squeeze biggish tyres in too.
If we listen to Brant I should obviously go with the Pig but does it go up as well as it goes down?
Basically, yes. It climbs like a steamroller. If you can keep turning the pedals, it'll chunder over pretty much anything in its path. Seat angle keeps your weight on the front, low front end helps too.
Don't 18 Bikes have a demo Pig or am I just imagining that? You're welcome to a quick go on mine if you're somewhere in the Peak some time.
yep think 18 do have demo.demo mine in hudds if your about,
ridden mine all over the place looks tatty and could do with a respray,been abused but thats what i wanted it for 🙂
im 5ft11 and have an 18",i pondered alot over the size too,
As far as the practical UK benefits of the Ragley frames go, I dunno
Hence the advent of the Ragley Piglet I guess, which is probably a fairer bike for like-with-like comparison against the 456.
EDIT: Although I hear that there is some pretty tech and steep terrain knocking about in the UK 😉
for those of you still unsure, i'm an idiot.
have any of the other ragley riders out there noticed how a really big rear tyre rubs on the front mech when you're in granny gear?
if not, what front mech are you using?
(i'm using a 2.4" maxxis advantage, which is bloody massive, i'm a little surprised it fits in the frame, there's loads of clearance, just not with the front mech...)
I use one of those SLX diddy front mechs with 2+bash.
Ace.
thanks!
for those of you who haven't seen one, a 2.4" advantage is an hilarious tyre, it's a bit like one of those daft pugsley things.
but it's very light, fairly grippy, and makes for a very comfy ride if you use it on the back of a hardtail.
i foresee a trip to my lfbs in my near future...
for those of you who haven't seen one, a 2.4" advantage is an hilarious tyre, it's a bit like one of those daft pugsley things.
Hmmm... I'm running a 2.5 Minion DHF on the front of the Pig, but was out with a mate yesterday with a TD1, but with a Pugsley fork and tyre fitted. It was properly monstrous, made the Minion look like a skinny mud tyre in comparison. Then again, it didn't seem to work very well on puddles with ice at the bottom of them...