[Closed] 29er adoption resistance theory

spend £1000/£2000/£3000 cos your missing out on what exactly ? a bicycle by any chance ?

I do get the feeling sometimes that new trails are built to suit 29" wheels, being smoothed out, less technical and less tight and twisty in an effort to force us all down the 29 route.

It's true, you know.
29ers don't go round corners.
29ers don't go over bumps.
All vegans are skinny.

650B is either a good compromise or a wishy washy no man's land, that'll be the next endless debate

+1 I think the differences between 26" and 29 are sufficient to make them both able to co-exist really, but my own take on 650b is more towards the "wishy washy no man's land" as you put it...

"Mountain biking" is a very broad church and these days and the term actually covers a lot of different types of riding; some of which 26" suits better and other areas are better catered for by 29", but I really do think chucking 650b in to the mix is more of a cynical attempt from certain companies (who maybe failed to catch the 29" wave properly) to create another little divisive "standard" in among'st all the others for fear that a settled set of product standards will mean sales stay a bit static and prevent some market growth... less a product looking for a solution more an imagined problem to generate sales.

TBH If I wanted a better rolling bike that beat me up a less over long rides I'd seriously consider 29" if I was after a bike with better technical handling I'd most likely look at 26" but what does 650b really offer that 26/29 don't other than more cost? That's my own feeling on it, I'm sure there are some 650b evangelists but they must be a minority right now and I can't see the Niche growing much right now as the why not buy a 26"/29" instead argument seems to hold merit...

As it is I've stuck to 26" because I don't have the money to justify switching over to 29" (It would incur significant cost right now, because it's not just new wheels, it's a new frame/fork... basically a new bike) and I don't feel my current riding needs would quite justify the switch.
In other words I'm happy on 26" but can see the benefits of 29" and would not rule out a switch in the future...

I think MTB is a big enough sport now to support 4 sizes of wheel. Some brands are more pushy in the market and they happen to finance/supply some of the work that big mags do. It's no surprise that you'll see vids on BikeRadaft where they say "a 26er would never get up that" referring to a 20% gradient with a root on it.

Some people are closed to change and they can often be quite loud. Some are more open and quietly get on with exploring more things.

CTBM, it's probably in your interest that it's still a tad niche as it adds a little value to those motivated by this as a factor.

I'd like a 29er to compliment my normal bike. But I'd also like a DH bike, a 24" BMX, a carbon rigid SS and a mini velo so I can be all Nathan Barley around Brighton (no really, they look good fun).

The MTB is still evolving, don't panic.

Anyway this is not about me. I am just exploring why folk resist Vs early adopters, using wheelsize as the theme. 20 years ago we could have used bar ends as the theme. There is psychology and "stuff" in this subject, and I am curious, it interests me.

I don't think it's a case of resistance, it's just that early adopters are normally very easy and enjoyable to rib.
As a vast generalisation earlier adopters tend to be very sensitive to criticism, I guess because they've made an active choice to do something different and have thus put their judgements out there for all to see. And in their perfectly natural need to protect and justify their judgements, occasionally they have a tendency to make rash statements as to how wonderful their choices are (which is where the fun is to be had seeing the holes they dig themselves into)

I think they'd be a lot less poking fun at such folks if they responded something along the lines of -

"I'm doing this because I prefer the path less trodden, I don't know if it goes anywhere good, but I like journeys"

as opposed to -

"I'm doing it this because it's so much more better than the choice the rest of you are making"

My bike came from a company who only make 29ers...
Its a wonder they've survived all these years. 😮

It's innovation, it's iteration, it's evolution. It's neither right nor wrong. Suspension was an innovation and that's quite nice.

Evolution is also why we are not still dragging our fists on the floor. But maybe it didn't work too well as it [i]may[/i] have been nice to have kept a bit more hair on the body (and in my case head) so we didn't have to wear so many clothes...just speculating...

Jus

Wheel size is not wrong, just some people..... is now a sticker, coming to a jiffy bag near.

Drum... stickers on their way next week. sincerely no hard feelings.

To clarify something earlier "I had a tricked out 26, my SC chameleon pride and joy, it was obsolete when I went to 29. That is not knocking 26, it's what I experienced." well if you turn to 29, and find it very suitable as I did, my bike was literally obsolete, it got ridden on one ride in the following 12 months before going to ebay. I was not saying 26ers are obsolete, but my 26er was. being well over six foot helped on that front.

Anyway this is not about me. I am just exploring why folk resist Vs early adopters, using wheelsize as the theme. 20 years ago we could have used bar ends as the theme. There is psychology and "stuff" in this subject, and I am curious, it interests me.

Unfortunately this comes across as quite smug and patronising, suggesting that you are the enlightened compared to the Luddites etc

Nah i am not intending to be smug or patronising, I am not saying I am enlightened, I am not evanlegising, no one is being called a ludite. I am doing what I said... exploring the subject of "innovation resistance" for the want of less patronising term. its not intended as a 29er/26 debate, rather that I am interested in how wheel size appears to have divided a social group. I am genuinely interested, its also business, after spend years banging on about 29ers, hearing about the MBR attitude, and then suddenly its normal, not just bearded steel one speeds. I'm curious.

it may have been nice to have kept a bit more hair on the body

I'm not sure I'd want my wife to have a hairy chest.

As said above Charlie, for me it has been the superior attitude of certain groups (mostly certain mags)suggesting that they are somehow superior as they are on 29" wheels. As we've all agreed, they are not. And they're no worse either. It's just the way it's been put across by parts of the industry that has got some people's back up.

Wheel size is not wrong, just some people..... is now a sticker

Whoop!! [i]wanders off to ctbm.com to find more stuff to buy[/i] 😛

Mostly Balanced - Very good point indeed. I got a bit carried away there.

But it's not "innovation", it's only fashion.
Change for the sake of extra sales.

Change for the sake of extra sales.

And what's wrong with that? the industry is there to make money.

Yup. 650b so wishy washy unsure companies are jumping right in there and tooling £££s for their carbon frames

What about the little people who aren't 7 ft tall or is that another niche market.

"What about the little people who aren't 7 ft tall or is that another niche market. " - if you listen to some, it is rapidly becoming another niche - 26". Although I think it'll stay for the normally-sized.

Hi-Fi Vs CD isn't it - Even now you still have evangelists of the LP telling us how the sound is so much 'warmer' and more 'real'!

Only in this case the smaller, versatile, robust & resistant to damage format is the established one rather than the newcomer 😉

Change for the sake of extra sales.

goes off to find my dave lloyd with cantis, 140mm stem and crook bros cranks. I will resits all change and stick it to the Man 😀

robust & resistant to damage format

commencal make 26ers don't they? case closed M'lud 😀

I think they'd be a lot less poking fun at such folks if they responded something along the lines of -

"I'm doing this because I prefer the path less trodden, I don't know if it goes anywhere good, but I like journeys"

as opposed to -

"I'm doing it this because it's so much more better than the choice the rest of you are making"

..post of the thread, well said. If a ticket to the path less trodden was less expensive we'd all be more open-minded I expect.

bi cycles is good

26 ers are dead? Seems word hasn't reached us yet. Only one rider in are club owns a 29er,well 2 actually. Also happens to be the quickest .l only know about 5 other 29er riders. At the sxc races we attend 26'' bikes are still the norm and to be honest the only thing rarer than a 29er on the local trails would be a specialized mtb of any wheel size

. I do get the feeling sometimes that new trails are built to suit 29" wheels, being smoothed out, less technical and less tight and twisty in an effort to force us all down the 29 route.

I had to read that twice. Really, some people think too hard.

To Andy post above, it's a drip drip effect not a big bang. As people try their buddies' 29s and become ready for a new frame, some are converting and the effect ripples. This is still a work in progress. .

As per Charlie's comments, for me 26 is, more or less, over. In a year's time I think my only 26 will be my 8 year old Blur, because I use it so little it's not worth replacing.

i just think they're a bit big for me? 5-10. think i'm very much in the middle ground?

29 ers will have truelly arrived when they are no longer described by their wheel size

can any one think of any where else in wheeled transport where a approx 10% change in wheel size is considered a big deal. The 2 cars out side this house have wheels over 30% different in size and it makes a huge diffrence but you almost never hear of cars refered to in that way. Same with skate boards, scooters, motor bikes etc.

I think its not so much big wheel resistance as grab the bike and ride people verses obsess over the bike people.

The first post would have been stronger of you hadn't said that you were trying to sell them. It makes it seem like you resent people not adopting a new wheel size, which frankly is odd

I demoed a 29er, really enjoyed it (especially up hills) but the frame was just a bit too big, as are the vast majority of 29er frames. I guess they're not really made for hobbits...

Found out that Niner do an extra small (distinctly hobbity) EMD 9, but I'm not sure if it's available this year, or outside of the US.

The great tyres, those new forks, the lovely wheels... The bike I have been refining and perfecting over years and years of upgrades is now defunct. It's vinyl, it's Betamax, it's VHS at best.

But what really matters is how extraordinary the film you watch is. Or how good the music. The world's full of people with extraordinarily expensive, realistic hi-fi listening to Phil Collins albums.

Just as the world is full of people riding really badly on mediocre trails on their brand spanking new, state of the art, mega bike.

People might just enjoy the world more if they focused more on the experience of riding, listening to music, watching great cinema, rather than obsessing about the medium that brings them that experience.

But then, Charlie, you kind of have a vested interest in selling people new stuff don't you? No criticism, but it's a fact. And 29ers are a godsend to the industry, a perfect storm of generalised obsolescence. New, frames, new wheels, new tyres etc...which is good news if you sell bikes and bits, no.

Damn those pesky slow adopters and their reluctance to spend more money... 😉

I genuinely have never experienced these so called drawbacks of 29ers people harp on about in a xc/trail ridong situation, which is what most of the mtb public do.

Handling wise, feel as difficult to turn to me as any long, slack low 26er which is apparently the best.

This all coming from a bmx/dh/freeride/trail/xc/bike rider who was really cynical before they tried.

I genuinely think a 29er hardtail/short travel full sus is the most suitable bike for a vast majority of the mtb public.

[i]People might just enjoy the world more if they focused more on the experience of riding, listening or music, watching great cinema, rather than obsessing about the medium that brings them that experience.[/i]
This is the important bit.

But if folk like Charlie weren't making these things available to us, how would we ever be able to find out what suits us each best?

There's nothing "magic" about 26" wheels remember. That size wasn't decided upon by some grand committee looking at the physics of mountain biking. It's simply what was available at the time for the type of riding the folk out in Repack and places were doing. If the CycloCrossers and Roughriders had been the ones to develop mountain biking we'd have been on 29ers from the outset. Have a look at continental Europe and for the sort of riding most "mountain bikes" in this country are used for it's all 700c hybrids - i.e. 29ers. We may well look back in 10 years time and wonder what all that fuss about 26" wheels was.

I genuinely think a 29er hardtail/short travel full sus is the most suitable bike for a vast majority of the mtb public

See you two, Druidh & Charlie, it will be very nice if in 20 years I have the same attitude to riding & bikes as you both seem to maintain.

I'd like a rigid 29er for certain reasons.
I'd like a freeride 26" for certain reasons.
I'd like a nippy 4x bike with 24" wheels.
I'd like a hardcore BMX with 20" wheels.

I have my SS 26" Inbred with Deore for everything because I'm perpetually skint.

Bikes & bikes & bikes. Happy is with wheels.

The 29er market share is much higher in the US than the UK; I think that you'll all be seeing a lot more 29ers in the future (unless 650b takes off).

That being said, I ride a 26er. I'd have to say that there is a lot of peer pressure to go to 29" wheels. The way some talk, they pedal for you and you can roll over 4 ft high obstacles without noticing! I've been asked when I'm going to get "a big boys bike." 🙂

And I'm no luddite; I'm an early adopter of Stan's, have a dropper seatpost, full suspension, hydraulic discs, as well as an angleset AND offset shock bushings. Not big into carbon fiber; have brake levers and had bars, that's it.

Only retrogrouch on gears (8 speed with Suntour XC Pro thumb shifters!) but we all know that 9 speed is a fad and its days are numbered!!! 8)

I ride a 26'' anthem and for me it is the perfect bike. For years it has been a bike voted as best in its class then overnight is obsolete ? To me this just reminds me of another sport GOLF. Every year my dad buys a new driver with the promise of more yards and new putters with the promise of lower pars. Every year they fall for the hype,the same thing we do in biking . I like my bike as it is l don't won't a 29er. But l do object to manufacturers trying to force me to by a product l don't want and if it is true that giant are not making 26" anthems anymore then l will need to make this one last.

I ride a 26" 140mm FS, couldnt give a toss about wheel size....the limiting factor with my riding is me, i could do with having better technique, being fitter, being braver etc etc....i bought the bike based on great reviews and a bargain price....the same criteria that will dictate it's replacement when the time comes.....wheel size will not be a factor, it may have 29" wheels, it may have 26" wheels....its the reviews and/or test rides that will make my mind up....you'd have to be mad to pick a poorly reviewed 29er over a good 26er purely because you have a bias for wheel size (and vice versa obviously)....despite the popularity of 29ers on this forum i have yet to see one in the wild?!

wot it is right is this.

Mountain biking isn't riding a ten mile stretch of flat tarmac. Almost every day the place you ride, the terrain you ride and the weather you ride in is different, so one bike can't be perfect.

Right and the other thing right is this right.

I think we all feel 'Oh **** I've just spaffed out on this because it's great and now they are saying it's S H 1 T and only a muppet would have bought that'

That said I've gone back to 26" wheels because that's the size that suits the purpose and place I ride the most.
Loved the 29er, found it pretty well great everywhere except fast racing through tight twisty tree lined singletrack.
Also really really liked my 69er, like the 29er but noticably quicker to pull away on. Shame it's EBB kept failing.

Call me an old cynic but reading through this thread I'm very much thinking along the lines of:

But then, Charlie, you kind of have a vested interest in selling people new stuff don't you? No criticism, but it's a fact. And 29ers are a godsend to the industry, a perfect storm of generalised obsolescence. New, frames, new wheels, new tyres etc...which is good news if you sell bikes and bits, no.

Charlie sells 29ers, Charlie isn't selling enough 29ers, Charlie starts a debate on Singletrack knowing its what Singletrackers do best, Charlie raises the profile of the things he sells.

Yes I have trust issues.

And 29ers are a godsend to the industry, a perfect storm of generalised obsolescence. New, frames, new wheels, new tyres etc...which is good news if you sell bikes and bits, no.

Damn those pesky slow adopters and their reluctance to spend more money...

😉

So how many early adopters of 29" will try out 650B?
Or will they say 'I don't see the point, I like my 29"', echoing many 26" rider's (perfectly legitimate) feelings now?
Will some 29" purchasers feel like 26" riders do now, that people are trying to say that 650B makes their bikes are obselete / inferior / less suited etc?

(CTBM - no hijack intended, just interested in the parallels in the same way as the OP)

Spot on CTBM.
These people are the MTB equivalent of Leeds supporters, they'll be pushing 29 riders over next!! 😉

This thread looks like people are no longer bothering with trying to rubbish 29ers with they way they perform, realising it's unfounded, having to bash them for other reasons such as cycling industry conspiracy.

The cycling industry is generally made up of riders, if enough of those riders in the cycling industry like a certain thing, it's going to make it to market. Was the market not doing just fine with only 26s? Why go to the hassle of more cost, factory searching, designing, tooling etc, etc, when you could go ahead making money just fine with what you've already got?

I've resisted so far, not because I'm particularly anti 29er I just like my bike as it is. I also like being able to swap wheels and tyres between my bikes.

The industry is really pushing the 29er thing. Especially guys like Specialized making the Rockhopper a 29er only; as an entry level bike people will think it's the norm. It's funny the marketing stuff people fall for. I work with a lady who rides and she decided that she needed a 29er to keep up with those in her group because they were faster than her so went and spanked a load of cash on a 29er.

I'd echo comments above about not seeing many out and about. Despite almost every publication beating themselves silly over the benefits and some doing the same on forums, I've only seen one or two actually being ridden.

Found out that Niner do an extra small (distinctly hobbity) EMD 9, but I'm not sure if it's available this year, or outside of the US.

have a chat to BETD goldtec, Kev rides an dinky niner and loves it and you can probably have a go on his to see if you'd like them to get one for you 😀

A dinkyniner.. : ) that's what they should've called that inbetweener size )

29ers are obsolete anyway - 29+ is where it's at now - keep up people 😉