Always prefer 11 speed, seems to be the one that worked the best, 12 speed was just a little too many without changing the width of the cogs, not quite sure why they didn't push wider ranges on 11, rather than going full in for 12 speed
@dangeorbrain, I assume so, any reason why it wouldn't?
My 9sp = rubbish at the moment but because I've been too lazy to fettle it properly.
I have gone from 3 x 9 to NX 1 x 12 for 6 months in Rossendale.
Consistently 3 rides a week with the last 2 months as muddy as you like.
My cleaning regime of the whole drive train gets done after each ride including a deep chain clean
Though not a scientific study I can reflect it has not skipped a beat, I’m happy with it and I’m not easily pleased
What a pain in the arse. I can't believe we are here. When is 13 speed coming? MTB lagging behind the campag guys!
Fair enough I'll have play and see if I can get it to work. Not what you expect brand new stuff to do. Normally you get that lovely 'its all new and running super smooth' feeling for more than 2 rides when you get new gears in my experience.
When I built all my other bikes I've ever had I just set it up to index and off we go.
Maybe I was hoping for too much? I love that clean new drivetrain feeling.
The bikes is still ace so thats all good. I'll go and ride some wet muddy slidy trails to cheer myself up.
I’ve just ordered a Sram 12 speed chain to test the theory the mud flows through it better. If nothing else the oil slick colour should look savage.
I assume so, any reason why it wouldn’t?
@inbred853 you couldn't on their 11speed kit.
Given the cost of their nine speed stuff is as much or more than decent 10 11 or even 12 speed I'll be honest it makes no sense to me.
Given the cost of their nine speed stuff is as much or more than decent 10 11 or even 12 speed I’ll be honest it makes no sense to me.
This. Just buy 11 speed and have done with it. Sram GX with a Sunrace 10-46 or Shimano SLX with a Sunrace 11-46.
Never had a problem tbh, I was pretty early to the GX 12 speed party and it's been pain free and super reliable even in horrible conditions. At least as good as the 11 speed that it replaced and better than the 10 speed 1x setups I used.
(I'm still using all of those on various bikes so that's a day to day comparison; as much as I love the 10 speed Saint and my fancy X01 11 speed, the GX is the workhorse and it deals with the worst conditions)
Never had an issue with 12sp stuff regardless of the conditions, but they are significantly more sensitive to indifferent set-up than anything else I've used in the past. My only advice would be check the B setting clearance, it makes a heck of difference to how well it shifts.
@dangeourbrain, can't find any ref on Google or YouTube reviews of Box not being able to be removed from frame due to derailleur, would be a show stopper for me, have you got any links/ refs to this?
I've sent a message to Box for clarification, I'll post if I get a reply.
I'd rather not have 10/11/12 speed as I'm happy with 9, just want a bigger gear range tbh. As for cost, I'm not looking at top end drive trains.
My Big Dog came with GX shifting and a SX/NX cassette. It came with the cable adjustment several turns too tight but once I'd slackened it off properly [took several goes] it's been perfect. I ride 5/6 days a week and have washed the mud off once.
Isn’t someone doing 9 speed wide range now? So better set up / reliability, same range but only compromised in steps between gears. Sounded a good approach rather than +1 gear per year
The Box One derailleur features the familiar limit and B-tension screws for simple set-up, but I did encounter a clearance issue between the upper cage and the bulky Horst Link pivot on the Whyte T-130. This wasn’t a problem with the 11T cog on the Shimano cassette, but it was with the 10T cog on the SRAM cassette where the cage fouled on the frame before it could reach the final gear.
Box Components sent out a longer B-tension screw to reduce the frame interference issue.
A longer B-tension screw helped to achieve the necessary clearance, but the decreased chain wrap left gear changes feeling a little sluggish as a result. However, hardtails and other rear suspension designs may not have this problem in the first place.There were clearance issues with our pre-production derailleur and the bulky horst link pivot on the T-130.
Another issue I discovered was rear wheel removal. Because the mech doesn’t rotate far back enough on the hanger, you’re left with minimal room to release the cassette from the dropouts. There’s no way of turning the CamClutch off like you can with a Shimano derailleur, so the process is a whole lot harder than it needs to be. As such, I had to unbolt the derailleur to install or remove the rear wheel, which is terribly annoying. Again, this may be a non-issue for other frames.
It wasn't a non issue with other frames.
@dangeourbrain, cheers, so specific to that frame it seems. I should be fine as only have a hard tail. Might give the Prime 2 or 3 a try, Prime 1 a bit to expensive , been though the cassette is a thing of much lovelyness.
Looks like Box have updated thier gear since 4 years ago as well.
Sounded a good approach rather than +1 gear per year
Seems to be disadvantages without benefit - the gaps would be really annoying, the shifting would be rubbish. I don't think there'll be an ever increasing number of gears because 12 is just about right.
I don’t think I’d buy Box components - what’s the obsession with 9 speed? Nothing wrong with 10 or 11 speed.
Particularly 11 speed you get a good range, it’s not as finicky as 12 speed, and it’s not even expensive. If you picked up the new Deore 11 speed and a Sunrace Cassette it’s not expensive and works well enough (I fitted it onto a budget build for my nephew recently). Fits on a standard hg freehub and you can get the wheel out with no issue. Also probably lighter than the box stuff unless you buy the fanciest one - but then that’s on a level with quite fancy Shimano or Sram stuff.
Must be your set up.
12 speed is the way forward - can be heavy tho if entry level spec
@joebristol, no obsession, just fancy trying something different from the two S's. Prime 9, same gear range as 10/11/12 speed.
@dangeourbrain, hopefully just affects the 11 speed/full sus setup then, should be 'reet with my hardtail.
I still don’t get it - the box 3 groupset (9 speed) looks to be about £180 for mech / cassette / chain / shifter.
For a squeak over £200 you could get a deore 11-51 cassette (11 speed), Deore 11 speed mech, deore shifter, deore cranks and chainring and a Sram pc-1110 chain.
You’d have closer stacked gears, a groupset you know will just work (and you can get the wheel out with no dramas) and it’ll most likely shift nicer. Not sure which option is heavier.
I did love my 10-speed Saint shifter
Best shifter ever. One day I won’t be able to say that, hopefully…
The XTR 12spd shifter isn't far off the saint, I do find the shift a little bit heavier though.
I think I just got two rides out of my 11-40 GRX setup and the shifting is all to cock again.
Same problem every time, a bit slow shifting up the block, but then jumps second biggest cog on to top cog. Then very reluctant to shift off top cog again.
Will replace cables, check derailleur hanger (again...) then think I'm going back to 2x with a smaller cassette. I think big cassettes just ask too much of a rear mech for reliably smooth shifting. My utterly neglected 105 11-28 road setup doesn't need ANY attention...
An 11-40 cassette in 11 speed should be fine. Never had an issues running 10-42 cassettes with 11 speed GX. Setup and forget really - hardly ever needs any tweaking of cable tension. So should should be fine with 11-40 as long as the mech is designed to cover that range.
13thfloormonk
Full MemberI think I just got two rides out of my 11-40 GRX setup and the shifting is all to cock again.
Same problem every time, a bit slow shifting up the block, but then jumps second biggest cog on to top cog. Then very reluctant to shift off top cog again.
Definitely an outright fault rather than an issue with 1x12 though... I mean, it's not like 11-40 is even especially big.
Yeah, shouldn't have posted in anger (well, mild frustration), am sure this is my fault somehow, but I maintain that both 1xbig cassette setups I've had (SRAM then Shimano) have been significantly more fickle than anything I've run previously.
Still, 2m of fresh outer purchased and ready to fit, another evening tweaking GRX beckons... 🙄
Got 12sp sram on 2 bikes. Runs smooth on both. You do have to make sure the gap between jockey wheel and casette is spot on, but easily done with the right tool. Two thumbs up from me.
@joebristol, not for you to get it, personal preference and all that, I might try the eight speed 11-42 version now you've mentioned Deore🤔
Joking aside, all I need is a shifter, derailleur and cassette, happy with my Jones'd XTR 960 cranks and 32t oval ring. Will buy a used 9 Speed Shimano XT derailleur off of the Bay to suffice at the mo, used the former to replace my mates FUBAR'd one while I was in summer single speed mode.
I'll post up a report of my Box experience once I buy and install it, probably early next year.
13thfloormonk
Full MemberYeah, shouldn’t have posted in anger (well, mild frustration), am sure this is my fault somehow, but I maintain that both 1xbig cassette setups I’ve had (SRAM then Shimano) have been significantly more fickle than anything I’ve run previously.
Sorry, I didn't mean it's your fault! I meant that whatever the fault is isn't a 1x12 or wide-range fault, it's some generic old-school shifting fault same as always. Maybe made a little worse by putting 12 cogs in only a little bit more space than 11 but it actually comes down to only .2mm on a SRAM cassette as they're a little wider.
Well, I had a play and got it a bit better.
it was much drier today though (still gopping! So dead good fun) so im still not totally convinced. I'll try it in the rain n proper slop again soon no doubt!
It just seems a bit fickle for something you thrash through crap for 7 months of the year?
My XT 12 spd has been bang on for over a year now. Not touched it.
Just to add my penny's worth to an already crowded thread.
I swapped from my stock 2x9 Shimano acera to a 1x12 SRAM eagle gx in July and I love it. Shifting is satisfyingly crisp and precise across the range whereas the Shimano was slow and clunky and I could never get perfect indexing no matter how I adjusted it. The eagle did take a bit of care with installation and setting up, particularly the b gap, but once you've nailed that it's been fit and forget.
Not really a fair comparison given the entry level nature of acera vs GX eagle and the fact I've only been using the SRAM for 4 months, but it really does put a smile on my face when out riding.
As others have said though, it's not great in thick mud and mine has gummed up a couple of times this winter with the deep claggy clay and chalk mud we have locally (jockey wheels in particular). However I'd be surprised if many drive trains would come out of that unscathed.
GX Eagle early adopter here. Set up is a little more finiky, and its also slightly more intolerant of bent mechs and derailiers.
X-sync 2 chainrings are brilliant and although the cassettes are super spendy they do seem to last.
I'm less impressed with GX chains, which repeatedly split around the pins, and the rear mechs which eat Jockey wheel bearings way before the teeth wear out, and the main B-pivots wear and go baggy, resulting to too much waggle at the mech hanger for reliable shifting.
