It’s not easy being Singletrack. Please help.

Well, I for one hope we are all here to see you proven right.

Looking forward to the journey Mark. As an (over) enthusiastic armchair observer, I guess I just want to see STW thrive, and listening to your customers (the ones you want to attract as well as the loyalists filling your inbox) is a pretty good business model.

But back to the original point, I would heartily advise you to put the begging bowl away and do what you need to do to build confidence and loyalty amongst just the people that you want to convert to fee paying loyalists.

We need more members in order to have the resources we need to make the changes that you want.

You need to do things differently to get more members, not ask your existing members for more. You need to understand why 130k people don’t subscribe, not why 6k do (and bear in mind some of the 6k have already told you they only subscribe to maintain the forum, despite your belief that the definition of ‘the mag’ includes the other online content that they have told you they don’t read). If there is a summary of 4 days and 203 posts, surely that is it……

I just looked up ‘Catch 22’ in the dictionary and this thread came up in the definition list. I really feel for you and genuinely (with absolutely no hint of sarcasm at all, please believe that) wish you the very best of luck with the future direction.

@solarider I agree with your points an views whole heartedly along with your sentiment and best wishes to Mark and the team. But as Einstein said repeating the same thing and expecting a different outcome is the path to insanity

Do you really think that the only thing the Singletrack staff are doing is posting a thread on the forum and sitting back and waiting for the answer?

I was referring to the financial ask. Mark never asked for a business review, but I guess that’s what he inadvertently got. I appreciate that the whole of this thread has been an unsolicited response to a request for cash which has been met with a load of well intentioned but totally unsolicited arm chair business advice.

It has been largely respectful and given and received in good humour and spirits, which is nice.

something they have a proven record of doing well, when others have failed.

Don’t be so sure that because it has worked in the past however, that it is still going to work going forward. Which leads nicely to…..

But as Einstein said repeating the same thing and expecting a different outcome is the path to insanity

Ha. Do you mean me or Mark? Either way, fair comment. I am at risk of repeating myself even more. I am leaving my thoughts here (no, really this time!).

I appreciate that the whole of this thread has been an unsolicited response to a request for cash

You might be forgetting the whole history of Singletrack… many on the forum would see themselves as “supporters” not just “users” of Singletrack. Asking for a bit more support is fine with me. I’d better go and check out what’s in the shop now I’ve said that…

to me he just comes across as someone who wants an argument

I’ve followed the whole thread. You appear to be the one jumping in after six pints with fists flailing. Maybe go back to those argument threads you refer to

@Mark Any thoughts on encouraging members (and non-members if it comes to that) to use Brave browser to access the site given the collapse in ad revenue?

Brave is good. yeah. We’ve seen some revenue that way. Not a lot and it still isn’t anywhere near as much as we would get from programmatic but I have to be honest and say that if you did decide to block ads that you did it by switching to Brave rather than by installing an ad blocker.

Crikey! I think I just fell foul of the moderators on that one 🙂

…coffee and a tea towel ordered. Any other shop recommendations? Lots of out of stock items I like the look of but obviously missed when they were fresh.

I appreciate I may be pissing in the wind with this staff first thing but that’s probably down to my socialist upbringing 🙂

There’s a thing called social capitalism. Profit is required in order to sustain the business – it’s just that I see the staff of a business as something more than a resource – they ARE the business and the the first job of a business should be to provide solid employment. What’s left after that can be the spoils. Personally I’m more proud of the fact I’ve helped create and run something that has employed people. I like employing people. But like I said, I could very well be pissing in the wind as that’s not how business usually work 🙂

who aren’t even a f***** member!

Here we go again. Local forums for local people!

I have explained why I am a lapsed member elsewhere in this thread. I have also suggested that STW might explore revenue opportunities from the forum. Until they do, I am positively encouraged to use the forum for free. I have also made it clear that I have not at any point called for jobs to be culled. On the contrary, making STW thrive would safeguard those jobs.

If you want to attract more users to your special club Daz (and make no mistake that is exactly what you need), then perhaps be a little more welcoming and open to a diverse range of opinions. I appreciate that emotions are high, but there are ways of making a point…

 Any other shop recommendations?

The cherry pom pom hat and the club ride shirts are some of my favourite pieces of clothing, although the brighter colours on the shirts are missing now :(.  Unfortunately the customs charges are making it much tougher for me to order that stuff now unless i know I’m going to be back in the UK for a bit

Cheers leffeboy… ride shirts was where I started, they look great, but all out of stock is average man sizes. Also fancy some pedal covers for throwing bikes in the car.

How does this Brave browser thing work then?

Could we be logged in properly on Chrome for example but do a bit of STW browsing on Brave to generate revenue for them?

Without wanting to spin my own broken record we’ve offered solutions, I’d pay to remove ads

Crikey. I’ve done a pretty exhaustive job of explaining things but I guess it’s not enough. If we offered a cheaper forum only membership, we would (at least initially) lose a lot of money as the bulk of those new memberships would be fed by the downgrading of existing members. At least at first. The problem as I’ve explained at length, is we don’t have the resources to be able to do that. In other, clearer, words. we can’t afford to do that right now. No matter how much you wish it to be different, it would cause Singletrack the business a sudden shock that I assess would not be able to survive without something else being sacrificed. So, due to the risk it would cause to job security here, I’m ruling it out.

Members first I’m afraid. It’s our best option. If you believe me then maybe you’ll decide to join us and help get that journey started?

I’ve done a pretty exhaustive job of explaining things

No. No you haven’t. You have said it isn’t an option but not why and it’s actually the first time you have expressed your concern that:

the bulk of those new memberships would be fed by the downgrading of existing members

You are effectively finally admitting that the forum is your most valuable (and untapped) asset and that some/many/most (you decide) people pay their subscription out of loyalty and community more than because of the value that they place on ‘the mag’ (your content in its broadest sense). I am not looking to diminish the mag at all here.

Your social capitalism experiment is fine until you have to extend the begging plate. You have created something amazing and (a few members excepted!) a wonderful community. It just needs a little more on the top line and/or a more appropriate cost base. It’s all within your gift.

Nope. Good luck Mark.

When the owner is the chief troll, I am afraid it isn’t a community I want to be a part of any more.

Enjoy the echo chamber chaps. Let me know how it goes in there passing around the begging bowl.

and that some/many/most (you decide) people pay their subscription out of loyalty and community

And some don’t and still see fit to offer ill-considered advice. 🙄

Maybe give free memebers a month or 2 digi sub for free, to get them used to the site with no ads a few might join after that. Espescially if there were also better payment options.

Downloading and opening Brave is straightforward, anyway. Then it’s just a question of setting up the rewards. Which is also fairly straightforward, tbh.

I just tried but it looks like I’ve got to set up some special account to handle the rewards that mentions cards, Bitcoin, wallets and wants a bunch more info than I am comfortable giving without a lot more investigation

I just tried but it looks like I’ve got to set up some special account to handle the rewards that mentions cards, Bitcoin, wallets and wants a bunch m

Yes, therein lies the fundamental rub. Someone has to pay. If the ads aren’t doing the paying then it falls to someone else. In the case of Brave that’s you. It will require that you set up a payment of some small amount in your account. Then it allocates that money to publishers of websites depending a) which you visit and b) what proportion of your account you ascribe to each website.